[RahulNagaraj]

According to media reports, the US Commerce Department recently proposed a ban on key Chinese 'Connected car' software & hardware on American roads. The proposal is reportedly due to concerns over national security.



Reports state that President Joe Biden's administration raised concerns over data collection of US drivers and infrastructure by the connected car tech in Chinese vehicles. As per the proposal, the ban would prevent Chinese automakers from testing self-driving cars on US roads. The ban could also later be extended to vehicle software & hardware produced in Russia and other US adversaries. Once the proposal is approved, it would make software prohibitions effective on all models from 2027. The ban on hardware would come into effect in January 2029 or on 2030 Model Year vehicles. The proposal is said to cover all on-road vehicles, with the exception of agricultural & mining vehicles, as well as drones & trains.

Gina Raimondo, Commerce Secretary, stated, "When foreign adversaries build software to make a vehicle, that means it can be used for surveillance, can be remotely controlled, which threatens the privacy and safety of Americans on the road." She further added, "In an extreme situation, a foreign adversary could shut down or take control of all their vehicles operating in the United States, all at the same time causing crashes, blocking roads."

The commerce department, though, did mention that the rule would amount to a ban on all vehicles manufactured in China. However, Chinese automakers will be allowed to seek "specific authorisations" for exemptions. Liz Cannon, Head of the Commerce Department's Information & Communications Technology Office, stated, "We anticipate at this point that any vehicle that is manufactured in China and sold in the U.S. would fall within the prohibitions."

Jake Sullivan, White House National Security Advisor, stated, "With potentially millions of vehicles on the road, each with 10- to 15-year lifespans, the risk of disruption and sabotage increases dramatically."

In response, Lin Jian, Spokesperson for the Chinese Foreign Ministry, urged Washington "to respect market principles and provide Chinese companies with an open, fair, transparent, and non-discriminatory business environment. China will firmly safeguard its legitimate rights and interests."

Source: Reuters

Link to Team-BHP news

[ohaak]

The United States action is a response to China's restrictions on foreign technologies like Apple CarPlay and Android Auto in their domestic market.

The Chinese government imposes strict regulations on foreign technologies that involve data transmission and user data collection, primarily due to national security and privacy concerns. Instead, the Chinese market predominantly uses domestic alternatives such as Baidu CarLife, Tencent's TAI, and Huawei HiCar. These platforms offer functionalities similar to CarPlay and Android Auto but are developed by local companies that adhere to China's regulatory requirements.

The MG Windsor software in India is different from the ones in China and elsewhere and it allows for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.

[Samurai]

Israel may get into a similar situation thanks to their exploding pager trick.

It is well known that most middle east countries buy mission critical and surveillance equipment and software from Israel. However, after the exploding pagers and walkie-talkies, every one of those nations must be wondering and worried too.

[Samarth 619]

This is all just digital warfare, a part of the cold war we're in. Rather a hot war, if I consider Russia and allies vs Ukraine & NATO.

Think about it:- They wanted all data to go the USA way. Windows 10 & 11 send huge amount of data automatically, Win 7 never had this cancer.
An android phone and an iPhone, both send data to USA automatically.
In case that fails, the processor has an inbuilt ecosystem running a modified Linux, that's capable of making systemwide changes & using the hardware and sending data too.
Maybe even all that I'm typing is going to USA through internet right now, maybe?

They destroyed Nokia, a Finland based company by sending a CEO-Managing Director, Stephen Elop from USA. I've read somewhere he was awarded in millions after the job was done.
What business does a USA person have with a tech company in Finland you ask?
Well, you see, Nokia's OSes Symbian and Meego didn't leak data automatically to USA, now everything does.

Many still think that Nokia died because it couldn't innovate and its touchscreen was bad. I feel pity for their knowledge level. Think, a company like Lava lives on, but Nokia dies, are you kidding me?
Did we even use Nokia 808 Pureview in 2012? Many of us did, it sold big without a single ad on mainstream media.


Google has refused all requests to keep user data in India, PM Modi requested once, but a US govt team came to "persuade" us. So much for the democratic USA. Recently in 2019, they've sent notifications that they'll spy on the user even if they're offline, that means endless spying.

Now they're going all 'We're holier than thou' on China.
It all started presumably after 9/11, I sympathise with the victims, but we're just innocent people in India, why spy on us? Well, the USA never answered this one.

Originally Posted by ohaak

The United States action is a response to China's restrictions on foreign technologies like Apple CarPlay and Android Auto in their domestic market. The Chinese government imposes strict regulations on foreign technologies that involve data transmission and user data collection, primarily due to national security and privacy concerns.

Exactly. And China is justified in imposing these regulations. Sadly, we the Indians are unable to do much here.

[SmartCat]

This also doubles up as a non-tariff barrier against Chinese cars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ta...riers_to_trade

Non-tariff barriers to trade (NTBs; also called non-tariff measures, NTMs) are trade barriers that restrict imports of goods through mechanisms other than the simple imposition of tariffs. Such barriers are subject to controversy and debate, as they may comply with international rules on trade yet serve protectionist purposes.

Tariffs on Chinese cars will not stop BYD from entering US. They might setup a manufacturing plant either in US or Mexico.

But if US bans Chinese origin connected car hardware/software, it greatly reduces the functionality & hence desirability of Chinese EVs from features point of view. That's because Chinese will not be able to equip the EVs with ADAS or semi-autonomous driving or even basic connected car tech we see in our cars.

Note: when you ban an entity or a product over 'security concerns', China cannot knock on the doors of WTO. India's laptop ban too was over the same 'security concerns' WTO loophole:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...er-2023-a.html (Government restricts the imports of laptops & computers. EDIT: Order suspended till 1 November 2023)

[PreludeSH]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Israel may get into a similar situation thanks to their exploding pager trick.

It is well known that most middle east countries buy mission critical and surveillance equipment and software from Israel. However, after the exploding pagers and walkie-talkies, every one of those nations must be wondering and worried too.

Its simple to avoid this. Buy directly from manufacturers instead of going through shell companies. Get it shipped directly and use blockchain for immutable system for monitoring along.

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Tariffs on Chinese cars will not stop BYD from entering US. They might setup a manufacturing plant either in US or Mexico.

It will be a tough task for the Chinese manufacturers to set up any factory in Mexico region under the USMCA (US, Canada & Mexico) trade agreement between all the parties which entered into force on July 1, 2020. US had already mentioned that there will be no back door entry for china/others who may look to enter their markets without paying tariffs. Under the sunset clause which is due in a years time, there might be stringent clauses added to the agreement to keep the Chinese at bay.

Mexico, facing US pressure, will halt incentives to Chinese EV makers

Chinese Mobility in the USMCA Region

[RMN]

Originally Posted by Samarth 619

This is all just digital warfare, a part of the cold war we're in. Rather a hot war, if I consider Russia and allies vs Ukraine & NATO.

Think about it:- They wanted all data to go the USA way. Windows 10 & 11 send huge amount of data automatically, Win 7 never had this cancer.
.................................................. ...Now they're going all 'We're holier than thou' on China.
It all started presumably after 9/11, I sympathise with the victims, but we're just innocent people in India, why spy on us? Well, the USA never answered this one.


Exactly. And China is justified in imposing these regulations. Sadly, we the Indians are unable to do much here.

Some of it seems a bit farfetched but at the end of the day, yes, no country (including India) is willing to let their data go out but obviously wants to bring all the data in. USA, China and I guess Russia to some extent has the skill and technology to be self-sufficient and hence can play this game.

[digitalnirvana]

This is far too little and far too late to be of any meaningful use, so its just bluster and posturing. One doesn't need a car's OS to be used for nefarious purposes. There's something in almost everyone's hand, which does it better already. If they were serious, that one app which rhymes with a clock would have been neutered.

[katchkamalesh]

Unlike the tariff barriers where OEMs can set up plants locally to manufacture the vehicle to avoid taxes, OEMs cannot circumvent this ban in this case. No matter where the vehicles are manufactured, the software will be developed in the home country or HQ and will be distributed across the globe.

The biggest challenge that I see is that every single major OEMs like VW, and Toyota have failed at developing and integrating software with their hardware and some of them are now looking at China for partnership.

We have been supplying software to global OEMs but we lack the integration expertise that the Chinese possess.

[Doonite]

The software ban will come into effect in 2.5 years from now and the hardware ban even later. There are 3 assumptions here:

• It gets approved.

• Harris wins the election.

• Trump wins and doesn't scrap the proposal.

Having said all of that, it's kind of interesting they (Biden and democrats) increased tariffs on Chinese imports a few weeks earlier, and now proposing this plan (only a couple of months left in Biden's term) when the presidential race is being so tightly contested. Just a thought

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to media reports, the US Commerce Department recently proposed a ban on key Chinese 'Connected car' software & hardware on American roads. The proposal is reportedly due to concerns over national security.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Israel may get into a similar situation thanks to their exploding pager trick.

The US reaction may also be in reaction to the Crowdstrike-Microsoft disruption this July. Though this was not a cyber-attack, the world realised what such software written with malicious intent could do in the future.

Few years back, unknown actors () introduced a computer virus called Stuxnet that specifically attacked Iran's Nuclear development facilities. Stuxnet is believed to have been developed over a few years and was completely hidden within code that "targets programmable logic controllers (PLCs), which allow the automation of electromechanical processes such as those used to control machinery and industrial processes" (Source)

Now imagine all connected cars not functioning properly on one particular day or time years down the line. This is no longer science fiction.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by DigitalOne

Now imagine all connected cars not functioning properly on one particular day or time years down the line. This is no longer science fiction.

In the year 2000, there was a TV show named Dark Angel starring Jessica Alba. Premise: Internet has permanently crashed in 2019 and the whole world has become dystopian.

We were all laughing at the premise... I mean how can Internet crash cause such a thing.