[volkman10]

As India is warming up to open Chinese investments, China asks its carmakers to keep key EV technology at home.

The Ministry of Commerce advised exporting knock-down kits for final assembly overseas and warned against investments in India. This move aims to protect China's EV industry know-how.

Link:

[AMG Power]

EV manufacturers in China were told not to make any investments in countries like India and Turkey.

Among various reasons, the guidance arose from policymakers’ concerns about Beijing’s rising tensions with certain countries where Chinese businesses and products could be boycotted by local authorities and consumers. In addition, government officials are worried about the risk of Chinese technology being stolen by foreign counterparts.



More info

[Capricorn]

Ok, now Mallya is lecturing how to increase CIBIL score.

This sudden realisation of ethics, is out of fear and the fear is good. India is big market. There is enough industry outside China to manufacture quality items. Indian engineering maturity is increasing day by day. More and more precision products are churning out of Indian factories. It is not dragon dependant. If the dragon don't want to invest, it would be dragon's loss.

[SmartCat]

SCMP is taking this news from Bloomberg. So I checked the original story on Bloomberg and the wording is slightly different for India & Turkey.

China’s Ministry of Commerce held a meeting in July with more than a dozen automakers, who were also told they shouldn’t make any auto-related investments in India. In addition, carmakers wanting to invest in Turkey should first notify the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, which oversees China’s EV industry, and the local Chinese embassy in Turkey.

So for Turkey, investments can be made but carmakers have to notify the Govt first.

And for the rest of the countries:

Beijing is encouraging Chinese automakers to export so-called knock-down kits to their foreign plants, the people said, meaning key parts of a vehicle would be produced domestically and then sent for final assembly in their destination market.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

In addition, government officials are worried about the risk of Chinese technology being stolen by foreign counterparts.

Pot calling the Kettle black.

Copy cat methods are now behind China, for the most part, but it seems very rich. Especially coming from China.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by volkman10

...China asks its carmakers to keep key EV technology at home....advised exporting knock-down kits for final assembly overseas and warned against investments in India. This move aims to protect China's EV industry know-how.

Oh no. Lest the unscrupulous Indians steal our heard (l)earned tech and use it for their own.

And here we have well meaning advocates who say that not letting in the Chinese would mean we would fall back on the BEV learning curve.


And please, don't equate the Chinese automotive industry rise to the Japanese/Korean ones. They aren't.

[Simha.k]

Insider info : A friend of mine who works for a major auto company which also has its operations in China with a local JV told me that every company has CCP members planted in them and they report every damn thing to the CCP and party dictates how many cars etc they can produce and sell.. Any data they send or receive from abroad is subject to scrutiny by these guys.

So, no wonder that all these companies are merely puppets at the hands of a dictator. They dance to the tunes of their clown master.

[Doge]

Originally Posted by Simha.k

Insider info : A friend of mine who works for a major auto company which also has its operations in China with a local JV told me that every company has CCP members planted in them and they report every damn thing to the CCP and party dictates how many cars etc they can produce and sell.. Any data they send or receive from abroad is subject to scrutiny by these guys.

So, no wonder that all these companies are merely puppets at the hands of a dictator. They dance to the tunes of their clown master.

That's not a secret. Infact this is true for every large Chinese organisation, including tech. Remember the whole Huawei and ZTE fiasco?
What I'm curious about now is how does this impact local EV players like Tata who are heavily reliant on Chinese EV tech.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by Simha.k

every company has CCP members planted in them and ...

Actually, that is how the system works. In East Germany, the secret service (the Stasi) employed roughly 2% of the entire population as informants and operatives during its peak. The percentage was very high in some professions like among barbers/saloon and utility company employees. I've also read somewhere that (might be an exaggeration) one out three of the grumpy old drunkards who roamed the East Berlin streets were actually Stasi.

[DCIT_Prabodh]

The issue is China has some kind of an aversion towards India, arising from a superiority complex. In their minds, we have not been able to create infrastructure or move people out of poverty while they have largely succeeded. Another strange thing is that while Chinese people are largely unhappy due to extreme restrictions placed on them, they are very loyal to the Government. A part of the reason seems to be the spying culture, where peers are expected to report any out of the way behaviour. Hence they are afraid of speaking out openly against their dictatorial government. Mind you, my perception is based upon interaction with Chinese civil servants.

Coming back to the matter, I sincerely hope our domestic automobile manufacturers are able to excel in EV technology. Further, we need to collaborate better with Central Asian Republics for raw materials, and reduce reliance on China. In any case, China would have been an unreliable partner, given the Chinese imperialist mindset and geopolitical situations.

[dust-n-bones]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Oh no. Lest the unscrupulous Indians steal our heard (l)earned tech and use it for their own.

And here we have well meaning advocates who say that not letting in the Chinese would mean we would fall back on the BEV learning curve.

Lets recap. BYD made a formal investment proposal, which would have included an indigenization schedule, given India's auto policy. We declined, and the investment moved to Thailand.

No American company has shown any interest to invest here since, in spite of desperate wooing. No Chinese company would be eager to, given what happened to BYD, and the slow train wreck that is the MG journey here. So whatever the Chinese advise their companies now is a moot point.
Who do you think is the net loser in all this? I think that's the Indian citizen, specially one who is entering the job market, with no prospect for succeeding.

I would only add that thinking of relations with China (& India's progress) purely tactically like this is foolhardy.

Lets do a fact check. Right now, India has negligible BEV know-how. China has arguably the best. How does one navigate this without first packing away our knee-jerk tendency?

Originally Posted by DicKy

And please, don't equate the Chinese automotive industry rise to the Japanese/Korean ones. They aren't.

Quite correct. No Sharp or Samsung has ever even dreamt a passenger vehicle, much less putting one on the road. Enter Xiaomi. I thought its a company that dumps rubbish phones in markets like South Asia and Africa. Till they decided to throw the Harvard MBA playbook out of the window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlJNfu8JX6Y

[drive_factor]

Chinese are obviously spooked wrt sharing automotive tech considering how the Landwind X7 was copied by Range Rover to make the Evoque model.

[Beemer1077]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

EV manufacturers in China were told not to make any investments in countries like India and Turkey.

Among various reasons, the guidance arose from policymakers’ concerns about Beijing’s rising tensions with certain countries where Chinese businesses and products could be boycotted by local authorities and consumers. In addition, government officials are worried about the risk of Chinese technology being stolen by foreign counterparts.

Attachment 2654180

More info

Hypocrisy at it's peak. The Chinese are more worried about their technology being stolen, when they have stolen tech from other nations, done patent infringements, and much more.

As such, why do we need Chinese EVs, when we can get something even better. Furthermore, Tesla is more overhyped, and as such, Elon Musk found China better than India. A BMW i4, Audi e-tron, Merc EQ series EVs are better, or even Tata EVs, Mahindra EVs. If not EVs, then hybrids.

[vij]

But they seem to also rolling back some of their aggression. China says they have recently disengaged in 4 areas including Galwan Valley.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/.../113337556.cms

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by dust-n-bones

No Chinese company would be eager to, given what happened to BYD

So what exactly happened to BYD? They made a .ppt file and it was rejected? That's not the way the business world works. If carrot (PLI schemes) & stick (import tariffs) approach is used, Chinese companies will form a line to invest in India.

The article speculates that Chinese Govt has asked companies to not invest in India/Turkey. The conclusion we can draw is that they fear India/Turkey's manufacturing capabilities, perhaps going by the way India smartphone supply chain/exports is growing.

Who do you think is the net loser in all this? I think that's the Indian citizen, specially one who is entering the job market, with no prospect for succeeding. Right now, India has negligible BEV know-how. China has arguably the best. How does one navigate this without first packing away our knee-jerk tendency?

Attributing great loss to Indian consumer or employment scene or automotive business environment due to BYD decision is quite an exaggeration.

To begin with, India does not exactly have significant know-how in modern petrol/diesel engines either. Both Tata/Mahindra consult with AVL Austria for their engines, even now. So Chinese entry will not magically improve India's EV know-how either. And in other news, the two wheeler EV market is booming despite negligible Chinese presence. What it means is that four wheeler EV market too will grow, with or without Chinese brands, when the inflection point is crossed.

I would only add that thinking of relations with China (& India's progress) purely tactically like this is foolhardy.

However, I agree that not allowing BYD to invest in India was foolhardy, but for different reasons. Even after Galwan, imports from China was allowed unhindered & was actually trending upwards. Allowing the Chinese to invest in India would have given us some leverage.

And generally speaking, every foreign investment should be welcomed because it means small but additional ($$ inflows + jobs). So in that way, Indian Govt did respond 'tactlessly' to the whole situation.