[McLaren Rulez]

Solving one problem often results in new problems.

If we cure cancer, many cancer specialist doctors will be out of a job.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by ads11

My main frustration is that the ideal EV scenario would be them constituting the bulk of traffic in urban environments but in vehicles from Tiago size to at most maybe a Dzire size vehicle.

Everyone's family won't fit inside a small hatchback, then you need to have space for many other things from shopping to pram to wheel chair, a dog perhaps and what not.

We have sky high taxes, very very low car ownership compared to the rest of the world. I am confident that an average Indian who owns a car will have less carbon footprint than developed country folks who commutes in a bicycle.

Fundamentally we are looking at the wrong place - cars , leave them alone.

[Kln]

This seems more of an tyre engineering problem rather than an EV engineering problem to me.

This is like someone saying 'ICE cars are leading to increasing deforestation due to more wood usage for their wheels' in 1910.

[krankstter]

Rubber degradation, Lithium mining & end of life disposal, Unsustainable energy sources, Lack of charging network, Tesla lawsuit for illegally showing non-ideal ranges (https://indianexpress.com/article/wo...aints-8864072/). I understand the cause and appreciate getting vocal about all these emission concerns, but with every emerging study, we're seeing things that elaborately mention that EVs might not be the end all be all solution going forward. With our population, if everyone chooses to switch to EVs, I doubt we can sustain seamless mobility as a society given the constraints. Feels a bit weird but I can't help but think that there might be a political/personal agenda behind this push given all these red flags. Am I being paranoid here? I've had these thoughts for the past 5 years now even without all these articles and can't help but wonder if this is the right way forward.

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

A report by David Zipper mentions that EVs are one of the main causes of increasing tyre pollution.

Something seriously wrong with this research. How come tyres o ICE cars last a maximum of 40K Kms and a similar size EV is easily run over 90K Kms before a tyre change?

Originally Posted by deep_bang

I do not doubt that the tyre wear is higher on EVs both due to the extra weight as well as the torque from standstill.

Facts from actual users of EV's proove the opposite.

Originally Posted by krsnasgr

I don't know about this, this sounds awfully like something that pro-Oil people would spin out to slow down EV adoption.

I fully agree.

The only serious concern with increased EV adoption is the increased need for Electricity from clean sources. Right now most countries do not have clean sources for Electricity and this fails the purpose of EVs. Driving an EV for a cleaner future is flawed if the electricity we're charging our EVs come from a traditional power plant which contributes to Pollution.

Not really. ICE vehicles use 100% fossil fuel. Electricity is generated from Coal, Hydro, Wind, Solar and Nuclear power. Only the coal is a fossil fuel. So basically ICE vehicles are 100% polluting and EV's are less than 50% polluting.
The other aspect is the emissions from ICE Vehicles are in the heart of the city and more or less at the level of people's noses. Coal power plant pollution is usually well away from densely populated areas and also at a much greater height to immediately affect people.
The next thing to consider is the the coal pollutants are treated before releasing into the atmosphere.

Originally Posted by ashwin1224

Quite dubious claims with this article. Sure, a Porsche Taycan is heavier than a 911 of equally tyre grinding performance but no country is buying Taycans by the truckloads.

Even if people buy truckloads, it won't be more polluting than an ICE car.

Originally Posted by Kln

This seems more of an tyre engineering problem rather than an EV engineering problem to me.

Absolutely.

[LeoRBK]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to a new report, electric vehicles produce pollution from rubber tyres.

A report by David Zipper mentions that EVs are one of the main causes of increasing tyre pollution. His reasons are two-fold: First is that EVs are heavier than internal-combustion engines due to the weight of their batteries and second the 'instant power' on offer twists the tyres which increases the rate of deterioration.

Attachment 2484415

In the report, Zipper mentions that “The smallest tire particles, measured in mere nanometers, can enter our lungs and spread to our organs. Various tire components have been linked to chronic conditions including respiratory problems, kidney damage, neurological damage, and birth defects."

He further adds, “The threat of growing tire pollution is hardly the only societal danger that the auto industry is foisting on the American public through its large and fast EVs. Tires that wear out quicker present other safety hazards: Braking, hydroplaning, and winter traction could get worse."

While the report can be taken with a pinch of salt, it is clear that tyre pollution is a concern, which must be addressed regardless of the type of fuel powering the vehicle.

Source: The Atlantic

Link to Team-BHP news

EV owners have already started noticing that their tires are wearing down quickly. A recent survey conducted by J.D. Power and Associates found that rapid treadwear is the biggest complaint that EV owners have about their tires. “They’re expecting 40,000 miles out of their tires, and they’re getting 13,000,” Ashley Edgar, J.D. Power’s senior director of automotive-supplier benchmarking and alternative mobility, told me.

This claim in the Atlantic report is laughable. I have completed 21000 miles in my EV and can see myself comfortably making it another 20000 miles or more. I will measure and report on this forum, but visual inspection tells me I have more than half of tyre tread depth to burn through before it become road unsafe.

I cannot put my finger to it but it maybe due to the sedate driving style I adopted post EV that I go through tyres more slowly. My last ICE diesel (2ltrs 163bhp hatch) needed a replacement at 36000 miles.

A point to note is that tyre manufacturers market different tyres for EVs as compared to ICE. I do not know why and would be pleased if someone on the forum can shed light on this.
Could the improved tyre life be attributed to the special compound used or a different design attribute of EV tyre?

Can I also point out that though EVs are heavier than equivalent ICE but not by much. You can compare weights of some of the ICE and equivalent EV converts.

Eg,
Kia Niro(kg)
EV Hybrid Plug-In

2,200 1,940 2,060

The report should also have explored the impact to tyre pollution caused by the present trend to ditch hatchbacks for small and mid size SUVs to provide a balanced perspective.

[speedogod]

This issue reported is just like what happened to e-cigarettes in India. They are less harmful than normal cigarettes but there came many reports saying that they are harmful (irrespective of the fact that its much less harmful than normal cigarettes). So after the media blitz they were banned and normal cigarettes are available just as before.

[ysjoy]

New controversy on the Electric Vehicles and their environmental impact: Looks like the particulate emission from the tyre wear is a huge contributor to environmental pollution

Electric Cars Emit More Particulate Pollution
They have greater tire wear, the source of most particulate matter. California is trying to conceal that fact.

Electric vehicles release more toxic particles into the atmosphere and are worse for the environment than their gas-powered counterparts, according to a resurfaced study.

The study, published by emissions data firm Emission Analytics, was released in 2022 but has attracted a wave of attention this week after being cited in a Wall Street Journal op-ed Sunday.

It found that brakes and tires on EVs release 1,850 times more particle pollution compared to modern tailpipes, which have “efficient” exhaust filters, bringing gas-powered vehicles’ emissions to new lows.

Today, most vehicle-related pollution comes from tire wear.

As heavy cars drive on light-duty tires — most often made with synthetic rubber made from crude oil and other fillers and additives — they deteriorate and release harmful chemicals into the air, according to Emission Analytics.

Emission Analytics found that tire wear emissions on half a metric tonne of battery weight in an EV are more than 400 times as great as direct exhaust particulate emissions.

For reference, half a metric tonne is equivalent to roughly 1,100 pounds.

Electric vehicles are often heavier than regular gas-powered cars due to the weight of their engines, which can reach 1,850 pounds. The heavier engines place extra weight on the tires and cause them to wear out faster, according to the study. A 1,100-pound engine can cause more than 400 times the emissions as direct exhaust emissions.

Particle pollution from tires is the biggest contributor to vehicle-related emissions.

The study throws a kink in the Biden administration’s argument that electric vehicles produce “zero emissions” and therefore are better for the environment. The administration is trying to cut down on how many gas-powered cars there are by mandating that two-thirds of all new cars in America be electric by 2032.

Sources:
Emission Analytics' original study report/ details
WSJ opinion (paywall)
NYPost
Washingtonexaminer

[maverick.vkv]

One more study/ op-ed by armchair activists.

I am eagerly waiting for a study that proves walking at brisk pace & 10,000 steps per day is harmful for the environment. Such activity leads to extra stress on the soles of shoes & sandals and causes them to wear out faster. This causes extra wear & tear of footwear that are made up of synthetic rubber made from crude oil and other fillers and additives or leather sourced from unsustainable sources.

Govt should monitor Google Fit data on daily basis & ban or heavily tax people walking briskly or more than 3-4,000 steps a day.

[varunswnt]

Originally Posted by maverick.vkv

I am eagerly waiting for a study that proves walking at brisk pace & 10,000 steps per day is harmful for the environment. Such activity leads to extra stress on the soles of shoes & sandals and causes them to wear out faster. This causes extra wear & tear of footwear that are made up of synthetic rubber made from crude oil and other fillers and additives or leather sourced from unsustainable sources.

That's really some sarcasm put in very effective way. People should also realize on the cost and environmental savings on less number of service parts and consumables needed in EVs during its entire lifecycle till trash.

Certainly lot of human effort/capital is needed to build various software components in EVs. Does this eventually negate the savings of EVs vis-a-vis ICE vehicles? Software industry too consumes lot of energy, but this is applicable in all fields as everyone in some or the other way is dependent on software.

[v01d]

They're probably testing the initial european EVs with 600 miles of range and a huge battery pack. A humble Tiago is almost equivalent in kerb weight. As battery tech makes progress, we will see higher energy densities and the weights will anyway come down.

[pradkumar]

In case you missed it, there's been a lot of discourse surrounding electric vehicles and tires lately. Not only do EVs wear through their rubber and roads quicker because of their relatively extreme heft, but the instant power they put down also accelerates the process. Owners are shocked to learn this firsthand because, as J.D. Power reports, their daily drivers chew through tires like they're going out of style. And not only that, but many were supposedly never told this would happen.

This points to a few failings in the car buying process. Since J.D. Power's studies show that EV owners typically anticipate similar tire wear as internal combustion car owners, it shows that adoption has leapfrogged education. This can be true for both buyers and sellers at new car dealerships. For instance, all the automaker buzz about EVs tends to blind customers to the potential downsides, and salespeople may be unaware or unwilling to share what they know about differences with electric car ownership.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/nobody...-through-tires