[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Look at this from the 1970s. That is how they promoted smoking!!!

You should watch Thank You for Smoking. Gives you an idea of what they were trying to achieve.

Replying to the group/thread.

The idea of owning a pickup truck in the USA isn't anything new. There has always been a market for them and there always will be, until their mindset changes to cheaper, more affordable mobility. They are not particularly excited either with the new line up of Electric pickup trucks from Ford, Rivian, etc. They want their big V8 trucks. Fuel economy is the least of their concerns. Many are used as work trucks, the more flash ones (post #29), are seldom going to be seen doing what they are designed to do.

The Truck or UTE craziness is no longer confined to the USA. Head over to Australia or even a small country like New Zealand and you see similar trends. The main difference is the ones we get here are a tad smaller and run on diesel (Mostly). Most own them purely as work and personal use trucks. Then you have the lifestyle clan who use them to haul their boats. There has been a steep rise under this category. To get to the dock. You need to travel and arrive in style, while making the least effort, so you get a truck. Fords new Ranger has been a sellout. 99% of the ones I've seen are driven on road. I've yet to spot one with a speck of dirt on them. Clearly a vehicle bought for a lifestyle. When you have the money, why not.

[Foxbat]

This huge SUV craze in US is just ridiculous especially in crowded cities. I once got a picked up at JFK airport in a car provided by the airline which turned out to be a huge black gas guzzling Chevrolet Suburban. For one person with a carry on suitcase they sent this to crawl in NYC traffic in the clogged lanes of Manhattan.This same airline provides a BMW 5 Series or similar in India and most other countries.

In the crawling traffic of Manhattan this your typical scene with these huge SUVs parked in scarce parking spaces carrying one or two people polluting the roads for all the pedestrians.



Apart from the pollution they are killing more pedestrians and cyclists like me:

SUVs and pickups are 2.5 to 3 times more deadly to pedestrians than smaller passenger cars.New Data Shines Light on Growing Dangers and Growing Ownership of SUVs in New York City

Source: https://www.transalt.org/press-relea...-new-york-city

Originally Posted by THE-U-

I would buy a Cadillac Escalade in a heartbeat because it is an extremely comfortable highway cruiser when one wants to drive long stretches with minimal breaks (~1000 miles in a day). I know a minivan is not very comfortable for doing that - at a constant (legal) 75 or 80 mph cruise the engine just gets spun up and starts to whine.

I was wondering what percentage of people drive 1000 miles a day frequently? The average highway speed in the US (for all vehicles on the road) is about 50-60 Mph so people are about 20 hours continuously without a single stop?

According to the US Department of Transportation :

The average summer long-distance trip is 284 miles one-way.
More than three out of four (78 percent) summer trips are 50-249 miles in length. We also travel:
one out of 10 (11 percent) trips — 250-400 miles
one out of 20 (5 percent) trips — 500-999 miles
one out of 20 (5 percent) trips — 1,000+ miles

Source: https://www.bts.gov/statistical-prod...s%20one%2Dway.

I didn't understand the point on the minivan, wouldn't engine whine depend on which gear you are in, model of the minivan and what (legal) speed you are doing?

Originally Posted by THE-U-

Where I live, I count one pick up truck in our neighborhood of more than 100 houses. Of course we have a lot of SUVs, minivans and expensive luxury sedans. Most people who come in pick up trucks are there to do some work or the other.

I found a little irony in the above and below statement in the same post

Originally Posted by THE-U-

Even taking the data you posted at face value, remember, one point doth not a trend make. There are many compounding factors that need to be taken into consideration even here.

[AKTransAM]

Originally Posted by yash2424

700hp, almost $200 for a full tank of gas and makes my Rolls Royce Ghost look small. I love these massive trucks and SUV's, totally impractical but a lot of fun

Sweet TRX man. My friend just got one a few weeks ago. Haven't taken a ride in it yet, on the cards though.

[AKTransAM]

Originally Posted by AKTransAM

Sweet TRX man. My friend just got one a few weeks ago. Haven't taken a ride in it yet, on the cards though.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Good for you, enjoy them to the max!

Jeroen

Jeroen, I absolutely do. This was one of the funner days last year

[AKTransAM]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Good for you, enjoy them to the max!

Jeroen

Jeroen, I absolutely do. This was one of the funner days last year

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by bejoy

An insightful documentary on the SUV craze in US and how the manufacturers shifted the market for making money, at the same time circumventing the regulations.

https://Youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo

Worth the watch, not a documentary but definitely an informative video. Atleast it makes one rethink whether the SUV is actually what one needs.

Although it might seem like another anti-SUV run but cannot ignore some of the statistics & SUV design concerns it highlights.

[THE-U-]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I see you live in Miami Florida? According to the 2020 census it’s not even in the top 100 richest counties!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

Jeroen

I moved to the DC area about 10 years ago and was in one of the suburban counties around DC (five suburban counties in the DC area are in the top 10 based on the list you posted). I am planning to go back to Miami, FL soon after my brief stint in New Delhi. I consider Miami to be my "native" place.

Originally Posted by amitoj

Of late I am noticing this behavior of refusing to acknowledge an alternate, hard to digest view, specially one that involves thinking about others, by calling it a "slippery slope". I guess it is more common in Florida where the ruling party doesnt want teachers to even talk about the possibility of non-heterosexual behaviours, because you know, its a "slippery slope".)

This is what people who want to control other people in the name of "good behavior" often say. History is rife with such philosophies and the outcomes are never good. The alternative you suggest is not based on market driven reality (its based on a minority group's preference) and is not democratic at all. Some people want to convert USA to an autocratic state and limit our choices. As I said early on, people should move to a place that is friendly to their lifestyle and leave the rest of us to the lifestyles we prefer. I don't think it is a big ask. We might not even run into each other.

On your other comment, I don't care to discuss politics - this is an automotive forum.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

This huge SUV craze in US is just ridiculous especially in crowded cities. ...

I was wondering what percentage of people drive 1000 miles a day frequently? The average highway speed in the US (for all vehicles on the road) is about 50-60 Mph so people are about 20 hours continuously without a single stop?

I didn't understand the point on the minivan, wouldn't engine whine depend on which gear you are in, model of the minivan and what (legal) speed you are doing?

You should've told your hotel not to bring a Chevy Suburban. Again, this is a market driven economy. I am sure a number of hotel guests prefered the Chevy instead of a Prius. Is that the hotel's fault? Marriott Kathmandu only uses EVs for Airport pickup and drop-off. Do I demand they send an LC300 to pick me up? Of course, not. I was perfectly happy with the Hyundai EV.

Go look up the speed limits in the US on Wikipedia. In most states now it is 70+ mph (has been for a while). State highway troopers in many states allow +14 mph before stopping you (in Virginia one has to be careful of course - they will arrest you on the spot and give you a felony reckless driving charge).

From the statistics you posted, I am in the 5%. I am guessing the Escalade doesn't have a 5% market share. I have driven 22 hours for 1400 miles in a Chrysler Grand Caravan with minimal pit stops (that is my record). I have also driven sedans 1000+ miles in 19 hours multiple times up and down the east coast per year. I have driven my MB GLS, rented Cadillac Escalade, GMC Yukon Denali XL etc for 1000+ miles at a time (go from the DC area to Miami). I have my preference based on what I feel is stable at 84 mph and what is not. The Chrysler (rental - 4 speed auto) and the Toyota Sienna (owned - 5 speed auto) whined like crazy at 75+ mph. The luxury SUVs on the other hand don't lose their poise even at 84 mph and have spare power to move at the same speed over inclines - set the cruise at the legal speed and keep driving (use seat ventilation and massage and one can drive forever!). Station Wagons? LoL.

Do you want to ride your bicycle on the interstate too? That's where things are going in some places in the US now. As I mentioned earlier, mixed traffic would be a disaster for people on bicycles - any car hitting a bicyclist or a pedestrian at 40 mph is going to do a serious damage. But, the fashionable thing people are arguing for is to change the automotive design by federal mandates. But, all of these people have vested interests because these are the people trying to get rid of cars from our lives too.

Also, the cities can make their own rules and close roads for automobile traffic altogether. Perhaps instead of lobbying to shutdown production of large SUVs, perhaps all of you bicyclists could work with your local governments to close roads to car traffic in your cities? Just a thought.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by THE-U-

As I said early on, people should move to a place that is friendly to their lifestyle and leave the rest of us to the lifestyles we prefer. I don't think it is a big ask. We might not even run into each other.

Thats another redneck kind of thinking that people who are not comfortable with the social impact of their choices resort to. "Move out". LOL.
EDIT: Awareness brings change. Those who dont want to change, are free to bury their heads in the sand while the world around them truly moves on.

Originally Posted by THE-U-

Do you want to ride your bicycle on the interstate too? That's where things are going in some places in the US now.

Dude, c'mon. In what alternate reality is this happening?
EDIT: Haha I actually googled this. And seems I can ride my bicycle on the interstate unless it explicitly prohibits me from doing so. Waddayaknow!

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by THE-U-

Soccer moms and pickup trucks? This is the first time I've heard of this combination. The soccer fields near my house are full of cars, minivans and SUVs. Pickup trucks are few and far between. Minivans and Soccer Moms used to be synonyms not even SUVs.

I think you missed the part where I said massive SUVs. In Asia, you will mostly find men driving large SUVs etc while women prefer smaller cars. However in America, advertisement campaigns have proved successful in selling massive SUVs to moms by making them feel it is safer and that 7 seats are necessary even though most people there barely have 2 kids. SUVs are not necessarily safer, they are very prone to roll-overs during crashes. And yet the moment one expects a child, it's immediately time to trade in their current car for a suburban XL. Even mini-vans are technically unnecessary considering the size of average families there.

As for men, marketing has convinced even the average white collar worker that they need a full size F-150 dual cab because of that one ikea trip a year where they might have to buy something that might not fit in the boot of their existing car and now they can larp as rough, manly handymen
But seriously, even some blue collar workers have 2 pick up trucks. An old one that they use for work and a new fancy one that they use for regular drives.

Anyway, a good salesman can sell you something you need. A great salesman can convince you to fork over half your retirement fund for something you don't even need.

[V.Narayan]

These half pick-up trucks and massive SUVs weigh in between 2 tonnes and 4 tonnes. At 4 tonnes they are approaching the weight of a small reconnaissance armoured car of a mid-range army. Just waiting for the day when armoured cars are used, in USA, to ferry kids and pick up groceries!

And soon we will be at....

[DicKy]

Fast forwarded the video, and I couldn't help but chuckle at all the points given. Follows the script of every SUV bashing article since the 1990s. Also in his usual style, he starts by saying no one really needs SUVs or pickup trucks, one can do with station wagons or minivans. Then he goes onto how his family was perfectly happy with a Toyota Aygo. then he goes onto how people use cargo bicycles in Netherlands. Of course, it all ends in his typical dialogue of "It is not about hating cars, but about making cities liveable. Just bicycle everywhere." And he did mention in the video how the Cadillac Escalade has less cargo space after the last row than a Subaru Outback or Audi A6 Allroad. Someone please tell him that the Escalade can seat eight people while have slightly less cargo space than 5 seater stationwagons.

The only good thing from the video is the website carsized.com. Love it, though I feel there should be even more model choices.

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

I'm going to leave just a few things here because as they say, worth a thousand words etcetera.Re: Visibility:
Source
Re: Utility:

True that pickup trucks have gotten bigger, not just American ones. My dad, who spend a good part of his life driving pickup trucks, couldn't help but smirk at the early 2010s GMC pickup trucks. He was amused how could anyone practically load stuff onto the loading bed. (it is another matter that they have started putting grab poles, steps, foldable tailgates et al to solve a problem they created in the first place). But one could say the same for almost any other vehicle model. Full size luxury cars from the 80s and 90s will look tame compared to todays compact cars. And it not just for vanity. It is only by the late 2020s, that most mainstream cars got back to the performance/ fuel efficiency levels of the late 90s mainstream cars. Reason? Safety and emissions. No one asked for rising beltlines or thicker pillars or aerodynamic windshields. But these are a result of many other factors, only one of them being style. Would love to drive something that has the overall visibility of an 800/ Omni/ Qualis. But for todays' safety and fuel efficiency standards, can we? And I don't think comparing old single cab long bed pickup trucks to current crewcab short bed pickup trucks is fair. There were 2 door cars longer than today's Escalade in the old days and there are single cab long bed workhorse versions of the F150 sold today too.

Also reminds me of another YouTube exercise by urbanist cyclists in London. In a stoplight they would pretend to trip over something in front of vehicles. The drivers naturally exited the vehicles to see if there was something in front of the vehicles. This was shown as an issue by the uploader that most vehicles have a terrible blindspot in front!!! Like, what do they expect? Everyone to drive a cabover van or cabover truck to get maximum frontal visibility?!!!

Originally Posted by amitoj

EDIT: Haha I actually googled this. And seems I can ride my bicycle on the interstate unless it explicitly prohibits me from doing so. Waddayaknow!

You can have a pet lion or tiger in USA. Not sure about the current legality, but until recently you can raise one in captivity. Wonder why it is not the case in India...