[SnS_12]

For EV's to go mainstream in today's age without making significant infrastructure changes globally is to have this man's vision made into a reality and not just a company making EV's named after him.

[RajeevMD]

I'm not with Toyota on this. The EV revolution is happening, 2020-2030 is going to be the decade of the rise of EVs. And among EVs, BEVs and PHEVs are gathering more traction than anything else. They seem to make more sense in today's context with rising oil prices and calls for emission cuts.

Toyota bit the dust with Hydrogen FCVs. They don't seem to have a backup plan with PHEVs or BEVs. They are just crying over their loss while everyone around them is moving on. Take Nissan for example, they came up with the first mass manufactured BEV, they might have been slow with their progress in BEV tech but they at least had a position in the field and now seem to capitalize on it with new EVs. Toyota is still missing along with their buddy Honda.

[Equus]

If you look at a full year in perspective, more than 90% of the days your car would run about 50-60 kms per day? Its really those road-trips (even weekend trips are around 200-250kms). I would rent a Fortuner or X3 for those long drives days and save money for the 90% of the time.
See the point?

[aashishnb]

From a purely geo-political perspective, going full BEV would mean replacing OPEC 'dadagiri' with China 'dadagiri'. OPEC atleast had multiple countries, often with different mindsets keeping the overall group in check.
Ofcourse, now with US & Russian oil production surpassing OPEC, their power, so to speak, has dwindled.

With China, its a completely different ball game, they already control practically 50%+ of all manufacturing in the world and have shown their expansionist & I don't care attitude.

Japan, amongst other countries (including India, most of SE Asia & Australia), is on the other side of the table. Why would Toyota, or for that matter any car company worth its salt, go to be slaughtered or held to ransom (look at current chip shortage for eg)? The reason is 'green/clean' is the buzzword that's giving a higher market valuation today (look at Toyota, VW & Tesla market capitalisation vs their sales). Therefore, everyone has to make the right noises to keep the share prices high. Thankfully, Toyota doesn't seem to be having that compulsion.

[bmw_lover]

Originally Posted by GTO

I will actually counter Toyota and say, if you aren't already focusing on EVs, you are late to the party!

Toyota just keeps on making such statements because their hydrogen cars have flopped.

Toyota wont be Toyota if they dont swim against the tide!!

[AZT]

Toyota probably made that statement because they had nothing to show. The Ford EV pickup truck is an example that EV's are here to stay.

All India needs is a Nexon with 500 km range and suddenly all manufacturers will start noticing. Tata is doing good and price should come down with efficiency and volume improvements.

[SKC-auto]

Toyota, why these stupid statements about EVs every month. Where are your fuel cell cars, the hydrogen economy, your japanese mate Honda stopped production of fuel cell Clarity, after leasing a grand total of 1900 cars, it's your turn. EV sales is doubling every year, at this rate EVs sales will be 20-30% of overall car sales in 2025, can you ignore such a big market. You have made friends with climate deniers, campaigned against California ZEV programs, you lost your green credentials earned with Prius.

Toyota statements are like Maruti's "calculate ki kya" diesel ads, shamelessly launch diesels again, when the time comes they will start greenwashing, telling us how good EVs are.

OT: More than 100 people died due to heat wave in Canada, climate change is the cause of heat wave.
Canada bans sale of ICE cars from 2035.

[vsrikkanth]

Although there is some truth to What Toyota says about the hasty implementation of EVs, I can't help but doubt their vested interests given the below:

1. Toyota is always known for waiting for new technologies to mature/improve and then adopting them in their best avatar to keep up their image of legendary reliability. This applies to EV tech too.

2. Toyota was betting big on hybrids, which they claim to have just 1/10th of emissions as a regular ICE car. Unfortunately they can't sell that in India, due to some ridiculous regulations that makes taxes on hybrids more than ICEs.

3. No matter how much EVs are forced down the throat of consumers, in an open/free market, EVs will be adopted only when buyers find value, which currently is questionable. So there is no need for Toyota to shed crocodile tears unless they want to extend the shelf life of legacy tech/machines.

[Ashley2]

Hear from the company, which made one of its kind, huge breakthrough success, through its engineering expertise and global strategy by bringing Baleno, Vitara Breeza and Ciaz under Toyota brand and expected people will stand in Que to buy.

Its known that Toyota isn't interested / developing India specific any main stream cars.
Their global road map isn't also focussed towards EV's and only towards Hydrogen fuel cells.

So when you don't do, you can say we are against it.
Easy. ����

And in EV's the technical legacy, engineering expertise will follow a relatively flat curve across mfrs, which may bring the brands closer interms of various aspects like range, battery life etc. So there is a high chance that many reputed brands may fall prey for this.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by aashishnb

From a purely geo-political perspective, going full BEV would mean replacing OPEC 'dadagiri' with China 'dadagiri'. OPEC atleast had multiple countries, often with different mindsets keeping the overall group in check.
Ofcourse, now with US & Russian oil production surpassing OPEC, their power, so to speak, has dwindled.

Chinese consumer market is as big if not bigger than the US/European market across segments and therefore is as important as US or Europe atleast, if not more. Thats where the real "dadagiri" I feel is. Tesla is not in China just for cost reasons, they are there because they see China being as important a market as US or Europe is and therefore they get their own giga factory just like Europe is getting its own.

Originally Posted by aashishnb

With China, its a completely different ball game, they already control practically 50%+ of all manufacturing in the world and have shown their expansionist & I don't care attitude.

And we were caught napping. We arent even in the same ball park anymore as far as consumption goes. For e.g. they buy more Mercedes cars in China in a month than Mercedes sells in India in 5 years. A big consumer market along with a very efficient manufacturing and supply chain. There's no beating that.

Originally Posted by aashishnb

Japan, amongst other countries (including India, most of SE Asia & Australia), is on the other side of the table. Why would Toyota, or for that matter any car company worth its salt, go to be slaughtered or held to ransom (look at current chip shortage for eg)? The reason is 'green/clean' is the buzzword that's giving a higher market valuation today (look at Toyota, VW & Tesla market capitalisation vs their sales). Therefore, everyone has to make the right noises to keep the share prices high. Thankfully, Toyota doesn't seem to be having that compulsion.

I disagree that it is too early. Its not. Electric cars "today" arent just good enough, they are better than comparable ICE cars at the same price. A Tesla Model 3 Performance for example is $50k cheaper than a BMW M3 here, is faster, has better technology inside out and is cheaper to run than a Corolla and will have better resale value too. There is no equal to Tesla Model S Plaid even at 10 times the price. A lot of countries are working on very aggressive timelines when it comes to outlawing selling ICE cars. Countries like Norway are almost there already! China is pushing really hard too. Give it a few more years and it would not make any sense to buy an ICE car other than very specific use cases. In that context, unless Toyota has an answer for BEV's they are grossly underestimating the massive change that is coming. To me they are already late but knowing what Japanese can do, I wont count them out.

[ZenMaster]

I have a feeling that Toyota is just stalling for time until their Solid State battery Tech is ready.
Toyota is definitely working on something big.

Toyota revolutionised the 2000s car market with their Hybrid cars like Prius. Toyota took an enornous financial gamble to bring the Prius to the market. Inspite of their clinginess to older tech, they are also the ones who took gambles with Hybrid(successful) and Hydrogen(failure). One thing I understand about Toyota is that they only adopt things that they can keep improving and milk for at least 2 decades and also stand the test of time. They don't probably find it worth to shift to a battery tech today that will probably be one-upped by another battery Chemistry or Technology within the next 10 years. They are probably aiming at the next generational shift in battery tech.

I don't think Toyota will fall into obscurity for lack of battery technology but due to their In-Car technologies and softwares that "run" the car. Even now their infotainment looks at least 5 year old compared to the new Hyundais & Kias(international models) and 10 years old compared to Tesla.

[msa.30789]

Toyota's concern is cen percent true. Manufacturing industiries as a whole have more emission than vehicles on road. Its no point pushing for cutting carbon emissions from vehicles alone.

Why can't auto makers think of EVs with rooftop solar panels / cells? It will be more conventional and greener. ( Just posting my thoughts. Don't know if already discussed here or not. Please oblige me if posting on the wrong thread.)

[Voodooblaster]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

Toyota is concerned that the production of batteries and electricity for EVs generates more emissions than that saved by the vehicle on the road. The company, hence stated that to truly reduce carbon emissions, carmakers must look at the entire production cycle and not just the tailpipe emissions.

A very valid argument put forward by Toyota.

Pollution is to be considered right across the product cycle and not just the running cost at the hands of customer.

Lithium ion tech is the most promising tech as of now.

Current Li ion Battery production process (including mining) is very energy intensive and polluting.

Also recycling old batteries is going to be a herculean task. We are yet to properly deal with e waste (Phones, TV, Computers and so on)

More importantly we need a diverse supply chain so that we will not be held hostage due to political turmoils.

Even problems caused by extreme weather conditions can throw a spanner in the works. (Eg: Floods in Thailand resulted in shortage of hard disks in 2011)

[no_fear]

I will run counter to this thread and say that Toyota will end up like Sony, Hitachi, Toshiba and NEC in the next 20 years and become irrelevant if they do not adopt EV. Before you throw brickbats at me, hear me out.

Toyota's biggest market after the US is its home base Japan. Japan is the perfect country to adopt EV.

1. Highly packed city centers where 90% of the population lives.
2. Energy scarce - dependent on oil and natural gas. They are still dithering over nuclear after Fukushima.
3. Very robust and well developed infrastructure. Electric charging stations can be fully implemented within 5 years.

At present, Toyota rests on its laurels in Japan, simply because it has the lion's share. Nissan is a basket case, and Honda is its only competitor. Once Japan adopts and implements EV technology, Toyota is toast if it doesn't change.

Apple decimated Japan's mobile phone market because other manufacturers never looked to see the winds of change. How many of you use a Sony or a Panasonic mobile phone? Toyota will suffer the same fate. Like it or not, the world is moving to EV very fast and rapidly. The Biden administration has climate change, energy and shift to EV among its primary agendas. They want the EV industry to grow and whoever snags the pole position will be calling the shots for the next 50 years.

[Sebring]

Let's not forget Toyota has a first movers advantage with a plug-in, the Prius (Though a hybrid). They would have collected tons of data, and should use it to a leadership position. But if they're hesitant, they must have a really promising tech coming up