[Sarinkrc]

Mahindra Thar Does look similar to the Jeep Wrangler's Design. Best thing for Mahindra would be to sell in countries where Jeep Doesn't have its presence.

[ph03n!x]

Disclaimer - I own a 2020 Thar. I will be as unbiased as I can while putting forth my views.

TL;DR - Do they look similar? Yes. Can it be termed plagiarism enough to be taken to courts in India? Don't think so. Elsewhere in the world - would be interesting to watch!

For the sake of discussion, I am splitting this post into two parts - Exterior and Interior.

Exterior

Headlamps - the 7" round headlamps have been around. Can't be contested, but read on...

Bumpers - Wrangler JK and JL comes with fogs integrated in the bumper, roughly in the same x-y axis intersecting points of the design-to-scale. The corner pieces of the Thar's bumpers protrude a bit like in Wrangler JL (which has a more pronounced protrusion here). But I don't think the bumpers per se are similar to any of the Wrangler generations.

Indicators/ DRL - IIRC, CL500D on, the positioning of the indicators/ positioning lamp has been where it is on the Thar. Wrangler TJ and JL have it is a similar position, but this positioning cannot be contested as plagiarism, Mahindra has history on its side.

Fenders - Thar's fenders are a continuance of the design that originated from MM440/ 540/ 550, merging with the hood at the A-pillar. Wrangler YJ and TJ had a similar fender, while JK and JL moved back to the the classic design similar to flat fenders.

Hood - The way the hood curves at the sides, and the muscular bulge in the middle is similar to Wrangler TJ, and to an extent to JL, which has a more pronounced bulge - and does add to the similarity in looks.

Grille - Thar has consciously moved away from the stamped 7-slat grille to a Mahindra grill with 7 vertical and 4 horizontal slats. But what adds to the similarity is the way the headlamps are offset within the grille, a la Wrangler JL.

Hood latch - Until the previous generation Thar, Mahindra had the pull-up to open latches. But the one on the 2020 Thar is a clear copy of the one from Wrangler JL, with minor cosmetic changes.

Side profile - Thar retains the semi-hexagonal front wheel arch and semi-circular rear wheel arch from the CJs, while Wranglers have moved on to symmetric design on both front and back wheels. The doors of the Wrangler are more flat-ish, while Thar create a semi-hexagonal illusion with the line that draws from the fender line all the way to the back. While the door hinges look similar, it dates back to the MM540. The rear glass (hard top) / transparent window (convertible top) is a narrow rectangle and may seem similar to the one in Wrangler JK/ JL, but then the MM540/ Major had a rectangular window at the back too, though in soft top.

Rear - The rear door mounted spare wheel itself cannot be contested, but the square, non-wrapping rear lamps and the reflectors on the bumper wear a stark similarity to Wrangler JK Unlimited. And like the front bumpers, while the rear-corner pieces of the Thar too has bulges similar to the JK, the bumpr itself cannot be called a copy.

Interiors

AC Vents - The rounded AC vents and their positioning are similar to the Wrangler JK. But the previous gen Thar too had similar, rounder AC vents - though the Wrangler JK predates the previous gen Thar by 4 years, it is no-brainer that the vents in the current Thar will be called an evolution of the previous gen Thar

Grab handle - Yes, Wranglers too have grab handles on the dash. ut then so does the MM540 and the previous gen Thar

Handbrake console - The positioning of the handbrake and cup holders in the console between the seats, while similar to the Wrangler, is it enough to contest in courts?

So my view? The hood's design, the way the headlamps are inset in the grille, the hood latch, the rear lamps and reflectors integrated in the bumper are all similar/ inspiration/ copy from different gen Wranglers. But are the enough to be contested in an Indian court? Don't think so - otherwise Jeep would have done it by now.

Can it be contested in courts around the globe? Maybe, would be interesting to wait and watch!

On a lighter note, M&M should bid for the Jeep brand from FCA (a la Tata and JLR), or Jeep should at least talk licensing - M&M are making cheaper and better selling jeeps than Jeep, and there seem to be no spanner in the works that Jeep can use to stop the bleed, at least make some money out of it!

Mahindra can easily redesign the few aspects that give ground for the plagiarism accusations, and build an identity for the Thar brand. Will they do it?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

For the sake of discussion, I am splitting this post into two parts - Exterior and Interior.

Cover the number plate. Then, ask any non-car person (your wife, father, son / daughter, neighbour, sister) which is which in this picture and / or how similar the design is. Mahindra couldn't even have bothered being original in the alignment of the spare wheel. The 5-spokes are EXACTLY positioned as the Wrangler (e.g. bottom one at the 1800-hours position). Come on, I love the Thar and am looking to buy it as well. But I will be the first to say this is OUTRIGHT THEFT!

This isn't "spot the similarities". It is "spot the differences"

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by GTO

This isn't "spot the similarities". It is "spot the differences"

Attachment 2156315

I just do not understand the need from Mahindra to do this. Even if it retained the exact shape as the previous version with all the upgrades to the engine and interiors along with the HT & CT, I am sure the sales would have been spectacular.

[turbo]

Originally Posted by GTO

This isn't "spot the similarities". It is "spot the differences"

Attachment 2156315

Or this. Albeit, I will concede, it has an aftermarket grill.

[swunkjyn]

I was hoping that there will be some support for a Home Grown brand. Yes, it is debatable whether the design cue is inspired, copied or plagarism. We all can agree to one thing that Thar has never sold like this generation. 50000 bookings is not a small feat with the car that is not even proper 5 seaters.

Maybe, in my opinion that was one of the reasons when FCA never saw it as a threat. But this Generation of Thar ticks a lot of Boxes.

1. Potent Petrol and Reliable Diesel Engine.
2. Locking Diff for Rear and Brake Locking Diffs.
3. 6 Speed Automatic.
4. Price under 15 Lakhs.

Now if this product is launched outside, lets say Autralia or South Africa, I am sure it will pull a lot of attention and market will be flooded with after market upgrade parts or mods. I think FCA filing this lawsuit are giving attention to a vehicle which has not been launched in Australia yet and it will generate curiosity around the Product. Who knows that just to launch it in Australia, there might be design changes just like it was done to ROXOR in US.

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by GTO

Cover the number plate. Then, ask any non-car person (your wife, father, son / daughter, neighbour, sister) which is which in this picture and / or how similar the design is. Mahindra couldn't even have bothered being original in the alignment of the spare wheel. The 5-spokes are EXACTLY positioned as the Wrangler (e.g. bottom one at the 1800-hours position). Come on, I love the Thar and am looking to buy it as well. But I will be the first to say this is OUTRIGHT THEFT!

This isn't "spot the similarities". It is "spot the differences"

Attachment 2156315

And I ain't disagreeing - neither in my post on this thread, nor in my ownership review

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

...
...There was this all out discussion on how M&M plagiarized the Wrangler TJ. Here is some views on that by @CrAzY dRiVeR (The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86) -

Attachment 2087974

I was not too torn between the Thar-is-a-copy vs. Thar-is-an-evolution arguments. It definitely is more than an inspiration - and I leave it there.
...
...

You don't need to ask a non-car person, everyone'd say the Thar looks like the Wrangler

But, that is not enough for the courts - I'm sure the funny arguments around rounded rectangles, Sammy allegedly dumping coins in Apple, verdict getting overturned on appeals... ... the irony of the charade - in a country that has better IP laws, governing bodies and judicial system nonetheless - is not lost on me.

Which is why my post calls out specific parts of the design where I think M&M copied Wrangler. I'm pretty sure M&M could have/ should have redesigned the specifics to not resemble Wrangler to be in the clear (I missed comparing the spare wheel and it's positioning, my bad!), it's a no-brainer. And I'm pretty sure the Thar would still be a killer, will sell. Why they didn't, anybody's guess!

I'm not too sound on Indian IP laws and their implementation to comment if a case can be made. However, I'm pretty sure a conglomerate like M&M will have a strong enough legal team, one that would have been fairly confident that they cannot be disputed at least in India to let this jeep into production. And that's why I'm saying it's gonna be an interesting watch...

[wildsdi5530]

Going by the discussions in this thread the major detractors seem to conclude that The 2020 Thar is a natural evolution of the CJ350/500 -> MM540/550 -> Thar -> 2020 Thar. That this is a similar evolution line followed by FCA with their Jeep Wrangler from their Willy's Jeep to the current generation means logically the offspring would be similar.

There are no pics comparing the 2020 Thar to the Thar 700, so I took the liberty of sharing comparative pics. All photos are taken from this forum itself and credit due to the photographers. Hope I'm not violating any copyright held by the owners of these photographs.

[LTAutoMad]

Originally Posted by turbo

And that is the end of the story.

EDIT: Not really sure why anyone would want to buy a Thar in Australia anyway? Dont they have cheaper, more capable off-road vehicles anyway. Heck, a Ford Ranger (endeavour) costs 30k AUD. Which is 17 lakhs.

Jeep Wrangler (especially the 2-door) is a niche lifestyle vehicle in Australia too and you are looking at around AU$58k (Rs.33 lakhs) on the road for a base model 2-door while the base model 4-door Unlimited costs AU$68k (Rs.39 lakhs). It goes up steeply from there.

This makes the Unlimited a direct competitor to Toyota LC Prado pricewise (so Wranglers are far fewer on the roads compared to the Prado) while the 2-door is a direct competitor to the Ford Everest (Endeavour) / Ranger pick-ups. There is only about AU$12k (less than Rs.7 lakhs) between Toyota Fortuner & Prado - so, while Prados are very common, seeing a Fortuner is a rare sight!

Yes, the base model Ranger starts around AUD 32k (Rs.18 lakhs), but that is for a single cab, manual, 2WD, low-riding tradesman's barebones work vehicle - the ones that families buy, i.e. dual cab, automatic, 4WD are priced in the high $60s and are bought as butch alternatives to a family SUV like Toyota Prado.

So, there is a huge market if Mahindra could have brought in the Thar at under AU$30k - there are no alternatives in the market except the Suzuki Jimny, for which there is a year plus waiting list & crooked dealers themselves mark up new ones as "demo cars" at huge premiums - currently, a base model Jimny (Rs.15 lakhs before ORC) is being offered at DOUBLE the price!

[apachelongbow]

If there was a legal case for FCA to sue Mahindra in India, they would have done so already. The fact that they didn't sue strongly suggests that they don't have anything substantial to bring up. The question is, does Jeep have a perpetual claim on the shape of the car? Have they patented it in any fashion? I request any legal expert on this forum to shed some light on this matter.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

The question is, does Jeep have a perpetual claim on the shape of the car? Have they patented it in any fashion?

We know from Mahindra's response in the Roxor case that Jeep does have a 'trade dress'. The only lack of clarity is whether it is applicable in India, as Mahindra has had various licenses over the years.

[sajaijayan]

It is indeed sad that a huge company like Mahindra, which even owns a design house like Pininfarina actually felt the need to blatantly copy a design. Whilst a Jeep wrangler is an iconic design and no one has managed to come up with something comparable, surely for the sake of fairness they should have refrained from such practices and come up with enough differences to avoid lawsuits.
When you have Pininfarina you surely could have and should have tried to make something different.
Although I totally support home grown products, copying a design is definitely not what any self respecting company could condone and IMHO M&M deserves to get sued by FCA.

[ZenMaster]

Here is a pic of the Chinese copy of the wrangler



The BAIC BJ40

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

We know from Mahindra's response in the Roxor case that Jeep does have a 'trade dress'.

The roxor case based on trade dress is a blatant abuse of IPR laws, imagine a Tata Benz lorry having to pay royalty to these guys because it has hood latches and raised door cutouts, that is ridiculous.

In India if such ludicrous laws are to be enacted, Tata /Mahindra / Maruti will be sparring over - Ace, Supro, Super carry etc because they have two doors and a loading deck as common design elements.

[volkman10]

Mahindra capitulates in Jeep Court case in Australia, agrees to not import the 'copycat' 4WD.

The Indian car giant has agreed in an Australian Federal Court to not import a copycat version of the Jeep Wrangler.

In a major turnaround yesterday, lawyers representing Mahindra in Australia agreed in Federal Court the manufacturer would “not import, market or sell in Australia the model of the Thar vehicle” or a future variant of the Mahindra Thar vehicle.

Mahindra had previously applied to give 45 days notice to Jeep of an intention to certify and import the Mahindra Thar vehicle into Australia – rather than the 90 days requested by Jeep.

Mahindra is also obliged to “include details of the appearance of the vehicle intended to be imported, marketed and sold in Australia”.

Another Federal Court case management hearing has been scheduled for 30 July 2021 to determine legal costs and “the terms on which (both parties) propose to discontinue this proceeding.”

Link