[MegaWhat]

The pseudo-SUVs of today seem to sell for a few specific factors like higher seating and decent ground clearance. The WagonR has been providing us Indians with at least the "higher seating" factor and look how it has sold. Same with the Ignis. However, these were among the only decent choices in that "higher seating" market. The new pseudo SUVs are simply additions to these. The market for these I suppose, always existed.

I would love to move to a sedan for an upgrade from my Polo. The handling and comfort cannot be matched by any of these pseudo SUVs even close to 20L. But I would also prefer higher seating and slightly higher ground clearance to account for my worsening back, terrible roads and all the other pseudo-SUVs on the road that drive with the high beam ON! It's almost an inescapable and unfortunate situation at this point.

[ss212]

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

Very true, but I can at least begin to understand the rationale for it. The Polo GTI was launched at about 23 lakhs on the road, before being deep-discounted to 19 lakhs at the end of its run. Could you imagine how much a Golf GTI would cost? No one in their right mind would pick one at about 35 lakhs on the road versus say a Fortuner, Endeavor, or whatever else you want to pit against it.

The GTI was too niche. I think if people were willing to pay a premium price for larger hatchbacks, Hyundai would be the first to bring in something. And I'd imagine when mass manufactured in India (the way current crossovers are), they'd cost similar or slightly less than crossovers.

[vinu_h]

I think fuel price also plays a role here. We are at INR 92 and they are at INR 53 per litre of petrol, which is why SUV's have flourished in the USA. Out here fuel efficiency plays a major role and sedan's will continue to be the preferred choice.

[Kosfactor]

The hatchback owner who aspires to buy a Sedan, eventually does so and then the bigger vehicle and boot enables him to travel longer distances, perhaps discover a bit of love for touring the state \ country, it becomes a lifestyle choice to take a road trip once in a while.

As they say bad roads take you to good places - sedan love, the end.

I have seen numerous examples of this sedan lover life cycle - Not a single one would buy a sedan next time as their only vehicle.

PS : Once in a while some vehicles will entice you to forgo common sense, and then you get a call from a friend- I took my new XX series to Coorg and on the way I had a... So I flatbed it to Bangalore and took a taxi.

[lazy]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Sedan is the most inefficient form factor among cars. A sedan's cabin size and boot volume can be achieved with a much smaller hatchback or SUV.

I'm surprised it took humans so many decades to realize this. Anyone watching us from a distant planet would be scratching their head because of sedan's existence on our roads.

Agree totally. For the same kind of seating and luggage space a boot-less shape is much more efficient.

Sadly, no brand offers station wagons in India. Some that I remember, Indigo Marina, Octavia Combi, Palio Adventure, and most recently the Volvo V60 - all market failures.

The sedan shape is most loved because it is the most popular, more a mindset thing, in my opinion. That shape has grown on us, having seen all beautiful cars in that shape since childhood.
An open mind will certainly see the inefficiency there.

And, before someone says, bad dynamics of hatch/station-wagons, I'll say this - if there's demand, engineers will find ways to make the drive-feel and dynamics identical to sedans.

cheers
lazy

[vb-saan]

Diminishing popularity of sedans is a real thing, but the reasons are different in different markets. In the US, the butch trucks like Ford F-150 or RAM are sold in hoards compared to the once popular large sedans. The growing popularity of cross-overs are not really the reason there.

In the Indian market, the so-called mid-sized/large (proper) sedans was never popular. What we had was small sedans derived from hatchbacks, mainly because of the status symbol attached to sedans (A Honda City is cool compared to a Jazz). Now that is being replaced by more practical hatchback derived cross-overs which offers better practicality, space, and style (much better than those strap-on boot to hatchback looks). Proper sedans like Superb, Camry etc. were always a niche in India.

In the US I feel the large sedans like Camry, Accord will still sell in good numbers. And there is another small sedan which is steadily climbing up there – the Tesla Model 3.

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

I get his reasons for initially knocking sedans off his list, and there are millions more like him. But these high-roofed hatchbacks riding high can’t make it through flood water much better than most other cars. Cars like the Ecosport are the exception to this rule. Most of these SUVs will just go nope at the first sign of a road vanishing into nothingness. That's the simple truth, and that does not an SUV make.

I will defend the sedan with my dying breath, and it is a hill I am prepared to die on, even if my lowly sedan won't clear it on account of lack of ground clearance. Such is the life of a sedan lover.

Am sorry but would differ here. Will a sedan wave through flood water? How does that make it any better than today's compact SUVs? There are real SUVs to do that job and consumers are very well aware of that. No one wants to crawl into a vehicle anymore. I for one do not want to crawl into my car and feel like I am just a few mm above the road. Sitting a little high gives better view of the road ahead, takes off the high beam to an extent of cars smaller in size. I don't want to navigate each and every speed breaker out there worrying how badly it's going to scrape the underbody. Compact SUVs are selling because of the practicality in owning them. They give good headroom and better efficiency (compare the likes of Venue, Nexon and XUV300 with City's mileage). Also, the pain of parking a sedan vs. a compact SUV, the SUVs fare better, far better.

[DicKy]

Everytime there is a sedan VS SUV thread, by the time I gather my thoughts the thread will go cold. Since this thread is still hot...

My love for sedans have always been an ON-OFF one.

Used to sedans and pickup trucks, any car with a hatch was a big win for my cousins and me. Stationwagon, MUVs, SUVs. Reason? We could ride in the boot area, which was impossible in sedans and forbidden in pickup trucks.

Coming back to India, seeing sedans like Lancer, Corolla and Camry made me go nostalgic, but by then sedans in my eyes were for people who lived in cities and used them for strictly personal use. MUVs and SUVs were the In thing for me. This was in the later part of 2000s and the only sedans that pulled your heart was the Civic and Fiesta S.

All changed when I took my friend's Accent CRDi for a hard spin. Made me realised I was a corner guy than a straight-line one. Still I felt practically a tallboy hatch or an MUV/SUV was more practical for our small town roads.
Years later we were kinda forced to buy a sedan and it was back to square one. Started to appreciate what sedans offered and at the same time, kind of understood why crossover sales were booming.

Rolls Royce launching the Cullinan and the resultant online banter and seeing this bad guy at Geedee museum made me realised this high riding craze was inevitable.


Ever increasing speeds and better roads post 1950s may have probably lead to cars being more and more low slung. It was the 1990s SUV craze and the resultant need for a compromise that lead to the crossovers' development. Even today crossovers are a compromised lot. And IMHO a waste of resources trying to make crossovers and even SUVs to behave more and more like cars

They are no more than glorified hatchbacks and stationwagons. And that's what people actually want. Sedans are no doubt inefficient in packaging, and can't blame people for wanting their only car to be a little more versatile and be an easy jump in and go from A->B tool.

Does it mean sedans are dead?
Absolutely No. They maybe inefficient in packaging, but in most others parameters they are pretty much the most efficient bodystyle out there. Even if EVs replace ICE, the basics of physics will remain the same. You can't get a more practical aerodynamic shape than a sedan and tune the perfect suspension setting than a low slung sedan.

Sedans will survive but most likely become something like what personal luxury coupes have become. In fact the latest generation of global sedans like the Camry and Civic actually push their sedanness forward than becoming practical. Becoming more lower and wider, more sporty in nature.
Or it may take another Great Recession for sedans to be back. ,though I don't see people jumping back into sedans after using crossovers unless it's a performance model.

[landcruiser123]

As monocoque crossovers get cheaper to manufacture and fuel efficient (lighter weight) to run, they are the preferred mode of transport. The high sales numbers are no surprise due to advantages of higher GC, seating position, and additional boot space.

Sedans can’t easily carry bicycles, skiing equipment, large furniture, gardening equipment etc.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Sedan is the most inefficient form factor among cars....
I'm surprised it took humans so many decades to realize this.

Sedans had significantly better fuel efficiency compared to crossovers/SUVs for many years. Technological innovations have reduced the weight and bridged the gap in fuel efficiency.

[ggs_mani]

Sedans are great cars for driving, but perhaps the popularity of the SUVs specifically in India is rooted more in our infrastructure and our road conditions?

Here's an example of a scenario that I've to go through almost everyday. I live in the the suburbs of Chennai and live on a road that is always chockablock with vehicles. When I'm attempting to make a u-turn with my hatchback, invariably my view of the oncoming traffic is blocked by a cyclist or a motorcyclist that is trying to make a u-turn from the opposite side. There's nary a signal nor anyone controlling the traffic.

And this is true of a lot of roads in India. I'll have to edge my hatchback into the oncoming traffic to get a better view which is never safe or wait forever. When I was driving a hector the other day attempting to make this turn, I didn't care about most of the bikes and autorickshaws, thanks to my seating position. I had a clear view of the road ahead and was able to comfortably turn. Ironically on crowded Indian roads with spagettified traffic distribution, these largish 'SUVs' are a lot easier to drive than low slung sedans.

[charanreddy]

In an ideal world, Sedans would trump CSUVs.

1. Sedans are beautiful to look at : eg: Octavia, City, Civic

2. They pack a lot : Just look at the cargo space on offer in a city Vs comparable CSUV.

3. They are comfortable : A long drive in a good sedan is much more easy on the people inside Vs a CSUV.

BUT we don't live in an ideal world. You never know when your road will be dug up or when a mountain of a speed breaker will be erected. For overall peace of mind, a CSUV works out much better as you are not constantly worrying about whether your car will scrape. We don't need a 4X4 , AWD. I don't agree with folks who think CSUVs are not real UV's. May not be in the traditional sense, but they work out much better for an average person Vs a comparable hatch back or low slung sedan. Also you can pack a lot of space in shorter vehicles in a CSUV.

[amitayu]

You do not need a big fat SUV for city driving. True Blue SUVs for off-roading is barely utilized in our conditions.

I know a lot of people who want SUVs simply because our roads are of poor quality. This is a shame, as the real solution for this problem is better roads and not bulkier cars.

A well designed sedan is more comfortable, both to ride as well as drive than the top heavy SUVs. Wonder when this recent trend will reverse and we can go back to good quality sedans for city rides.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by amitayu

You do not need a big fat SUV for city driving. True Blue SUVs for off-roading is barely utilized in our conditions.

I know a lot of people who want SUVs simply because our roads are of poor quality. This is a shame, as the real solution for this problem is better roads and not bulkier cars.

A well designed sedan is more comfortable, both to ride as well as drive than the top heavy SUVs. Wonder when this recent trend will reverse and we can go back to good quality sedans for city rides.

Agree partly with you, but the roads are not in our control, while our purchase is.

You know what would be interesting? To compare sedan vs CSUV sales in the cities ranked as having the best roads, and cities with the worst roads.

[aaggoswami]

This was rather expected, and sedan sales as we all know will hit a trough. However, to me, sedans are quite logical, one box for engine and components, other for passengers and third for luggage. Moreover to the best of my knowledge, sedans are more aerodynamic too. Problem arises only due to poor roads, absolutely anti-science speed-breakers and water logging on roads. On smooth highways, sedans are really enjoyable and low center of gravity adds to safety net also for sudden directional changes. The trend for crossovers/SUV also has to do with "levelling the field" on roads where more and more cars are set higher off the ground. As long as roads are smooth, like expressway, I love driving sedans. But as soon as those good roads end, its a different story.
For me, Heart = Sedans and Head = Crossovers/SUV. Cold weather plus snow will tip the scale in favor of crossovers/SUV. AWD sedans are rare in the market I guess. Similarly there were few AWD minivans too. For a country as large as USA with huge distances and cold weather, sedans losing sales cant be an unpleasant surprise.

[nakuls003]

This thread reminds me of when I was looking for a new car 18 months ago. I'm all for true SUVs that come with the "go anywhere" capability but with a budget of 12 lakhs, I just couldn't find anything that appealed to me. Ended up buying the Verna SX petrol and I'm quite happy with my decision.

Call me old school, but I'm not a fan of the blurring boundaries between car body shapes. Growing up in the 90/00s, the word sedan takes me back to the golden days of the City, Lancer, Octavia, C-Class etc. Those were such good looking cars with comfortable driving dynamics.

On the other end of the spectrum were proven SUVs like Gypsy, Sierra, Pajero which were admired by all and evoked a desire to own one. Today's popular pseudo SUVs just don't move the needle like these oldies used to.