[RaceHorse]

India-bound Honda City hybrid revealed


The 2020 Honda City for the Malaysian market has just been revealed, including a new hybrid version that will be coming to India in 2021. Called i-MMD, the hybrid technology used by this version of the City has been used on the international-spec Honda CR-V Hybrid and in the new-generation Honda Jazz sold abroad.

• i-MMD tech uses two electric motors and a petrol engine
• It is a strong hybrid that can run on electric power alone
• New City hybrid expected to launch in India in mid-2021

Source:

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by RaceHorse

India-bound Honda City hybrid revealed


Source:

Just like how they brought India's first hybrid car.

They are going to launch the first mainstream full hybrid model

All while the so called master of hybrids is still toying with hybrid CBUs/CKDs to influence the government for favorable tax benefits.

Hope this is the start of mass market adoption of full hybrids.

[Aditya]

Honda City Hybrid for Malaysia revealed; India launch on cards - Posts moved to a new thread.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Don’t see how they will make a business case for this in India. They can’t bring this as a CBU, that will mean priced above Civic. Which means they will have to either

- get it in CKD kits and assemble here. Again, will attract more duties.

Or

- localise the tech and make it entirely in India. Best option from a long term prospective but difficult to execute given the minuscule volumes currently in play.

As it is, the new City is off to an average start and I don’t see any major pick up happening.

[CarguyNish]

I am actually looking forward to this car. I feel Hybrid cars are best for our driving conditions.

If one drives at 20-30 kmph in 1st & 2nd Gear, the real world fuel efficiency of the car drops by a big margin. Petrol Automatic is most thirstiest followed by Petrol Manual, while Diesel Automatic is thirstier than Diesel Manual. My car is a Diesel Manual and I get 12-14 kmpl at max. If my car was Petrol AT, it would drop to below 10 kmpl.

The solution to this is either stop using car or look at efficient mode of transport. Here, an Electric Car will be perfect. Initial capital is high, but running cost is extremely low. But due to battery limitation, range is very limited. Nexon EV Owners have reported real world range of around 180-220 kms. That's much lower than company claimed figure of 312 kms.

So, now unless the car has bigger battery, range is not going to improve. Here's where the Hybrids come in, they work in EV mode within short distance and low speeds. And when you're cruising on highways, the Petrol motor powers the engine which in turn charges the battery too. With this, fuel costs will remain same, but efficiency will increase. On Highways, most of the cars give good efficiency, so I expect this City Hybrid to give 15+ inside city and 22+ on highways which is a very good figure. So I wouldn't mind the fuel expenses as they would be lower the efficient the car is.

Also, with this Electric and Petrol Combination, power will be lag free. A perfect combo especially for user like me. Well done Honda, on firming up the plans of introducing Hybrids from 2021 as promised in 2018. Now, price this well just like the 5th Gen City, even a slight premium of around 1 lakh over Petrol CVT won't be a problem. Coincidentally, it's coming right in the period when I was planning to upgrade. So, if everything goes according to plan, this City Hybrid will replace my Tiago.

[volkman10]

Here are more details of the Honda City e: HEV,



Engine details:

Gasoline 1.5 liters e: HEV

Engine code LEB-MMD 4-cylinder gasoline DOHC 16-valve 1.5-liter, 1,498 cc bore x Stroke: 73.0 x 89.5 mm, Atkinson Cycle ignition, maximum power 97 hp (PS), maximum torque 127 Nm, with electric motor coupled. 2 units, maximum power 109 horsepower (PS), maximum torque 253 Nm.

The highlight of this power is that it can produce the same maximum torque. 2.5 liter N / A gasoline engine ever in Honda Fit e: HEV Japanese version. Can achieve acceleration numbers 0-100 km / h in 9.4 seconds only.

Link

What is a two-motor hybrid and why is it better?

Most hybrids, be it mild or full hybrid ones, use only one motor. This is the simplest, most cost effective setup. The engine can be shared with a standard combustion engine variant and the transmission only needs some modification to accommodate a motor, nestled between the engine’s crankshaft and the transmission.
One-motor hybrids work well enough but it’s not as efficient or as powerful (all else being equal) as a two-motor hybrid. With only one motor, the system can either drive the car, or recharge the batteries, but not at the same time. With two motors, it can

Unlike engines, electric motors generate its peak torque immediately after 0 rpm. There’s no need to build up speed before peak torque is reached.

The Honda City RS makes 253 Nm and since it’s coming from an electric torque, peak torque is achieved from 0 rpm (OK technically it’s 0.1 rpm) until 3,000 rpm – sounds low but remember that this is an electric motor. Motors can spin to five-figure rpm ranges but in this case, it doesn’t need to.

Where the motor tapers off, the 1.5-litre DOHC i-VTEC naturally aspirated combustion engine fills the torque gap, peaking at 127 Nm from 4,500 – 5,000 rpm.

The 2-motor setup allows the engine to power the car without being directly connected to the wheels, thus allowing it to run at its optimal, most efficient rpm range.

At higher speeds, where it’s more efficient to use the engine, a clutch engages and the power flow is diverted away from the hybrid system, using the engine to drive the wheels directly (Engine Drive mode). When there is surplus power, the traction motor also works as a generator to charge the traction battery.

As a full-hybrid, the City RS will accelerate from stationary using electric power alone (EV Drive mode), thus doing away with unnecessary jerks commonly associated with mild hybrids or cars with engine idle start-stop systems.

The two motors are cooled by automatic transmission fluid, so there is still some maintenance required (no different from a regular automatic transmission fluid change).

The clutch itself is maintenance-free and is designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle, so you don’t need to worry about replacement cost. Although Honda didn’t say what does it mean by ‘lifetime of vehicle’ (service life is dependent on driving habits too), but to car manufacturers, a vehicle’s designed lifespan is typically around 15 years/300,000 km

Link1

[sv97]

I don't know how much the hybrid technology has evolved over the past 10-12 years but the gain in fuel efficiency is not as high as it is claimed to be at least that is the case in my Civic Hybrid.

I hardly get around 10-11 kmpl in the city during summers when driving with a light foot and coasting when possible; in winters this increases to maybe 13-14 kmpl due to low or no a/c usage.

When driven harshly the economy is hardly around 8-9 kmpl.

The biggest con with all hybrids is the high cost of replacing the batteries when the batteries go dead which in my case was almost 2 lacs and for a Camry Hybrid is around 3.5 lacs.

Also the car has to be driven for around 10 kms every week or 10 days else the battery goes dead and the car has to be jumpstarted .

Adding to this, the A/C needs to be switched off on stops of more than 30 seconds as the hybrid battery is utilised for powering the A/C on stops and the battery gets discharged quite a lot if the A/C is kept on for longer durations. Only when the battery level drops to almost minimum (which is not recommended) the car switches on the engine.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Pretty interesting observations there, GTO. To keep sedans alive and relevant, manufacturers should start making proper hybrids with reasonable EV only range.

I hope Honda has been listening. They seriously needed something worthwhile while the competition intensified from Creta/Seltos. If not Hybrids, the City will be irrelevant.

Sure, a few buyers will stick to sedans, but the vast majority will move away as crossovers (or SUVs :P) offer better ground clearance, flexible space, and a better image.

Originally Posted by sv97

I don't know how much the hybrid technology has evolved over the past 10-12 years but the gain in fuel efficiency is not as high as it is claimed to be at least that is the case in my Civic Hybrid....
The biggest con with all hybrids is the high cost of replacing the batteries when the batteries go dead which in my case was almost 2 lacs and for a Camry Hybrid is around 3.5 lacs.

Sorry to say, but the old Civic hybrid is not best example while discussing this technology. The Civic Hybrid was a series Hybrid and required the engine to be running at all times which naturally takes a toll on the fuel economy.

The Prius hybrid is a parallel hybrid and can run solely on electric power. Don't be one bit surprised to see the Camry Hybrid rarely switching on the engine in the City and offering 15-16 kmpl. The new City Hybrid seems to be a parallel hybrid.

You're right about the replacement costs of a hybrid battery - they are ridiculously expensive.

Also the car has to be driven for around 10 kms every week or 10 days else the battery goes dead and the car has to be jumpstarted .

Adding to this, the A/C needs to be switched off on stops of more than 30 seconds as the hybrid battery is utilised for powering the A/C on stops and the battery gets discharged quite a lot if the A/C is kept on for longer durations. Only when the battery level drops to almost minimum (which is not recommended) the car switches on the engine.

Never heard these concerns from any friends owning a Toyota Prius.

[alikidwhy]

This is good news. One one hand we ask for manufactures to bring in their latest and the best arsenal of vehicles and then doubt and be pessimistic before the launch.

Let’s wait and see how the market will accept the same, mere speculation is good for debate but not practical.

If this is priced sensibly, this has the potential to take off but the launch price matters (case in point Civic Hybrid was sold for 10-12 LAKHS less than its debut price.

Hybrid technology is good since it eliminates range anxiety, gives instant torque thanks to the motor and is environmentally and pocket friendly. Honda is anyway great at R&D and though this technology isn’t ground breaking, this can be the next fad in India since a hybrid south of 20-25 Lakhs would be great.

[GTO]

A proper Hybrid will be deadly. If it is priced well (i.e. all parts localised), our FE-obsessed market will lap it up. Imagine a Honda City that gives an average of 25 kmpl? The public will go crazy.

Some hybrids in the USA have a price difference of $1500. Give India a proper hybrid and we'll take to it just like we did to diesel engines. In fact, the running cost will be far lower than diesels.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by GTO

A proper Hybrid will be deadly. If it is priced well (i.e. all parts localised), our FE-obsessed market will lap it up. Imagine a Honda City that gives an average of 25 kmpl? The public will go crazy.

Even if Honda did all that, a Hybrid is going to be taxed at a cool 43% over the regular 28%. This price premium alone negates any sort of gains from a hybrid powertrain, the economics simply won't work out.

Having seen previous generation City and Accord pricing, am not so hopeful on a 'well priced' Honda.

[sumeethaldankar]

A Hybrid should be priced well maybe at max 50k more than the regular car. Anything more then in the long run the price differential will not be worth it if saving money on fuel is the primary purchase point. A hybrid has more moving parts, components than a regular car and once they get old and need replacement etc it will negate the benefit of higher fuel efficiency. You might save the environment a bit on a hybrid but savings in money, I don't think so.

[Entsurgeon]

I currently own a zx cvt 2018 city ( gen5 facelift).
The engine purrs at ~1800rpm at 100kph and delivers 22-25 kmpl with ac on highways depending on the traffic.
Same engine mileage falls to 8 9 kmpl in city if you are in 20-30kmph lanes with occasional traffic signals. If this car ever gave a battery supported 15 -18kmpl in city and over 20 kmpl in combined cycle, the fuel cost savings would be substantial. Almost 40%lesser. At present the combined cycle FE I get is from 12 to 17kmpl depending on how much of it was highway kms. Since the engine is detuned ( my 1.5L pumps 118ps) i wishfully think her base variant can actually cost a lakh or 2 lower than a 17L zx. Also if it was a plug in hybrid I d be heads over heels for her.
By the way, do these hybrids have a separate battery for engine cranking etc or they use the hybrid battery pack for these functions too?

[sarathlal]

Honda attempted Civic Hybrid which became a mess later on with its attempted 'clearance sale' etc.
Link here (Honda Civic Hybrid at 13.65 lacs limited time offer: Now Sold Out!)

Recent Accord hybrid also went the same way.
And the major factor that attributed to failure was price and utility. Unless Honda finds a way to balance this act, its very difficult for a commercial success.

[123.rishabh]

In my opinion, a proper Strong Hybrid system with a good fuel economy can be the replacement for diesel powertrains even if priced slightly higher than the diesel powertrains.
Hybrid can offer good power (Electric propulsion) along with low cost of running.