[johannskaria]

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV has filed a U.S. trade complaint seeking to prevent Indian automaker Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. from importing an off-road vehicle that looks like its iconic Jeep.

The Fiat Chrysler group filed the complaint on Aug. 1 at the U.S. International Trade Commission, claiming that the Mahindra Roxor infringes key characteristics of Jeep’s signature trade dress -- namely the “boxy body shape with flat-appearing vertical sides and rear body ending at about the same height as the hood.”

“They are a nearly identical copy of the iconic Jeep design," Fiat Chrysler said in its complaint, which included photos comparing the Roxor to the Jeep. "In fact, the accused product was ‘modeled after the original Willys Jeep.’"

Fiat Chrysler has also said that Roxor imports threaten it with substantial injury as they are underselling Jeeps. Mahindra capitalizes on the cost advantages of manufacturing their products in India and then importing knocked-down kits to the U.S., where they’re assembled in the Detroit area.
Fiat Chrysler’s complaint pointed to Mahindra’s “substantial foreign manufacturing capacity combined with its demonstrated intention to penetrate the United States market and harm FCA’s goodwill and business."

Fiat Chrysler has become increasingly reliant on its Jeep product line. On Wednesday, the company reported its highest ever July sales for Jeep brand vehicles, up 16 percent, to power the company’s overall 5.9 percent jump from a year ago.

Bloomberg

Mahindra Roxor

Mahindra Roxor Vs. 1948 Willys CJ-2A Jeep

[sukiwa]

This was going to happen sooner or later.
Similar situation had happened earlier when Mahindra Scorpio was going to be launched in USA, related thread. (Chrysler turns heat on M&M over Scorpio)

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by johannskaria

Mahindra capitalizes on the cost advantages of manufacturing their products in India and then importing knocked-down kits to the U.S., where they’re assembled in the Detroit area.
Fiat Chrysler’s complaint pointed to Mahindra’s “substantial foreign manufacturing capacity combined with its demonstrated intention to penetrate the United States market and harm FCA’s goodwill and business."

Looks like a fight with Trump is on the cards for Mahindra if this escalates.

I guess the best thing Mahindra did with the Roxor was not making it road worthy - else the costs would have escalated and the media would have thrashed it for being a substandard product. By keeping it honest and true to its original heritage - the little offroader seems to have been heartily accepted by the US public. And judging by their reaction - it seems to have taken Jeep by total surprise.

It's hard to take sides in this scenario - because Mahindra has had Jeep license decades before FCA owned the brand itself. And Mahindra also did not infringe the Jeep copyright of their traditional trademark grille on the Roxor, which uses a 4.5 slot grille as compared to the traditional 7 slot one on the Thar.

But - they do not have a license to sell it in the US market, I believe. Which may be the legal last word on this issue. I remember reading an article that mentioned that Mahindra did not inform FCA about this move, and FCA had refused (or wasn't bothered) to comment on it earlier. Now that Roxor has picked up good reviews in the market - they obviously want to more than just comment on the situation.

[libranof1987]

Have Mahindra learnt nothing from its previous misadventures. The US takes plagiarism and IP rights extremely seriously and having been bitten once, Mahindra should have been forever shy.

Unless: Is the publicity worth the litigation costs?

[SmartCat]

FCA has a problem with Roxor's side profile too. And when you check out Youtube reviews of Roxor, it is clear that looks are a big part of its appeal.

M&M should open back channel negotiations and offer to sell Punto and Linea at their Indian dealerships

[johannskaria]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I guess the best thing Mahindra did with the Roxor was not making it road worthy - else the costs would have escalated and the media would have thrashed it for being a substandard product. By keeping it honest and true to its original heritage - the little offroader seems to have been heartily accepted by the US public. And judging by their reaction - it seems to have taken Jeep by total surprise.

It's hard to take sides in this scenario - because Mahindra has had Jeep license decades before FCA owned the brand itself. And Mahindra also did not infringe the Jeep copyright of their traditional trademark grille on the Roxor, which uses a 4.5 slot grille as compared to the traditional 7 slot one on the Thar.

Now that Roxor has picked up good reviews in the market - they obviously want to more than just comment on the situation.

Agree with you on that.
Seems like FCA is counting on the trade sentiments.

Having a factory in the US and employing a large chunk of citizens will make sure this case stays within its merits.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Have Mahindra learnt nothing from its previous misadventures. The US takes plagiarism and IP rights extremely seriously and having been bitten once, Mahindra should have been forever shy.

Unless: Is the publicity worth the litigation costs?

Originally Posted by sukiwa

This was going to happen sooner or later.

If a company has merits on its side and doesn't stand up to such a lawsuit, it not only affects the company but also the business prospects of the country it belongs to. IMHO

Originally Posted by smartcat

FCA has a problem with Roxor's side profile too. And when you check out Youtube reviews of Roxor, it is clear that looks are a big part of its appeal.

Mahindra has read the offroad enthusiasts quite well.
A back to basics SUV with just the essentials.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by smartcat

FCA has a problem with Roxor's side profile too.

There's simply no way they can deny the Jeep roots, and they wouldn't do that either (because that's what sells!) - Just a question of whether their licensing agreement had any sort of provision that would help them through this.

Roxor = Modded Thar = Modded MM540 = Modded CJ5.

Originally Posted by johannskaria

Having a factory in the US and employing a large chunk of citizens will make sure this case stays within its merits.

Mahindra is a major player is the US tractor market- so they might already have this in place. Roxor is like a US CKD product, assembled in Detroit.

[GTO]

I'm incredibly patriotic and will always have a soft corner for Indian companies. But this is one matter in which I'll side with FCA. The Roxor is a Jeep knockoff and Mahindra should've known better. Legal issues aside, what kind of reputation is Mahindra looking to build in the USA? What would we think of a Chinese or Indonesian company that launches a car looking almost identical to the Maruti Alto or Gypsy at a cheap price? I'd posted on similar lines earlier:

Originally Posted by GTO

YUCK! Is this the best that Mahindra can do? What a lame effort.

For once, we can say that India gets a better version of the same product. Mahindra also just damaged their brand as everyone can see the vehicle for what it is - a Jeep knockoff. They have harmed their reputation just like the many Chinese copycats.

And when you can get a road-legal Wrangler for not so much more money, why on earth would anyone bother with a 62 BHP / 195 Nm Jeep with a top speed of 72 kmph? That's the kind of power my Classic made in 1997 (it now has a more powerful 2.5L Bolero engine).

If I was in the USA and needed a 4x4 workhorse, I'd anyday buy:

1. A new Wrangler for more money

2. A used Wrangler for the same money

3. A used pickup truck for the same money

As an Indian, I am ashamed of this Indian product being sold in the USA.

[mpksuhas]

Came across this news article - Link

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV filed a U.S. trade complaint seeking to prevent Indian automaker Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. from importing an off-road vehicle that looks like its iconic Jeep.


The Fiat Chrysler group filed the complaint on Aug. 1 at the U.S. International Trade Commission, claiming that the Mahindra Roxor infringes key characteristics of Jeep's signature trade dress -- namely the "boxy body shape with flat-appearing vertical sides and rear body ending at about the same height as the hood."

"They are a nearly identical copy of the iconic Jeep design," Fiat Chrysler said in its complaint, which included photos comparing the Roxor to the Jeep. "In fact, the accused product was 'modeled after the original Willys Jeep.'"

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by GTO

But this is one matter in which I'll side with FCA.

When one looks into this using FCA's viewpoint, he'll understand the predicament of FCA immediately. The said product (Roxor) is threatening the image and brand value of their crown jewel division, Jeep. As of now, the Jeep division is extremely important to the very survival of FCA. No other division or marque is doing very well and any damage, even shot-term damage, to the Jeep division must be viewed as a threat with potential to kill FCA. A copy of their annual report is all they need to support this claim.

In addition, given the fact that M&M is a conglomerate with proven capabilities and international tie-ups (ref. Ford, Renault etc.), acquisitions (SsangYong, Daewoo etc.) and self-declared ambitious goals and not an obscure or irrelevant player makes the matters worse for Mahindra.

I too think the same as Smartcat had mentioned - opening a backchannel is the best way forward for the Mahindras.

[NST440]

Originally Posted by GTO

I'm incredibly patriotic and will always have a soft corner for Indian companies. But this is one matter in which I'll side with FCA. :

Exactly what i was thinking.It actually portrays a bad image not only of the brand but of the Nation as a whole. The cheap copy will actually compel people to stereotype us as imitators and that is not a right thought for our country.

How annoying it must be for a company to see their sales dwindling when an outsider copies their signature shape and sells it for peanuts to the masses. I am with FCA on this.

[greenhorn]

I do not think things are as clearcut.
FCA's arguement is that the overall look of the roxor uses design elements that are the Trade dress of Jeep Products. In a strict sense,
1. Current Jeep products look very different, and closest is the Wrangler, which does not look like a roxor. They are not using the 7 slat grille
2. Before and while Jeep was selling classic jeeps, there were a lot of other vehicles which looked substantially similar. The Original Bantam , Ford GPW, etc.
The last famous Trade dress suit - the Apple vs Samsung Rounded Rectangle case - went in favour of samsung. So lets see where this goes!

[Doge]

They are just giving Mahindra more publicity. How does the Roxor affect the sales of a Wrangler? The Jeep is much more expensive and is road legal where as the Roxor is not.
And Willy's itself was a copy of the Ford WW2 "Jeep".
What about the license that Mahindra had for the CJ? I wonder why did they not sue Mahindra in India then, where the Jeep = Thar.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Doge

And Willy's itself was a copy of the Ford WW2 "Jeep".

Wikipedia and a few other sources seem to mention that this was a combined wartime effort to design the "Jeep" -

The design of the World War II jeep was the result of a long process, involving the contributions of both U.S. military officers and civilian engineers, the latter mostly tied to three companies: Bantam, Willys and Ford, and has repeatedly been called a design by committee

Originally Posted by Doge

What about the license that Mahindra had for the CJ?

As per news items that came out in the US media before the launch of the Roxor - Mahindra not only had the license for production of their Jeep derivatives, but also renewed their licences with all the Jeep brand caretakers including FCA.

But that does not give them rights to sell the product in the US market, unless the license specifically grants them the right for it? Judging by FCA's response - may be it does not! Also - if it did, Mahindra would not have changed the grille and all - as compared to the Thar.

[wrongturn]

Comparing Mahindra to Chinese car manufacturers who blatantly copy car designs isn't fair IMHO.

And people might call Roxor and alike product offerings from Mahindra a knockoff, clone or a cheap copy but the fact is they are legally and rightfully entitled to use the design since they have been a Jeep licensee since 1947. Mahindra has had the rights to the Jeep design for decades longer than the current owner, Fiat Chrysler, has.

The point of all this is to say, yes, Mahindra can damn well build a Jeep if they want to.

I am sure the Mahindra was prepared for this kind of an issue and maybe that is why they decided to design a different grille and didn't use the traditional Jeep grille, that grille has become so iconic and associated with Jeep that it is now Jeep’s logo, even if, technically, that was a Ford design.

Instead of bashing an Indian manufacturer for doing something it is rightfully entitled to do, we should rather show our support in it's favour and ask questions to FCA on how can it blame M&M for copying the design when Jeep had granted them the license to do so. Now I don't know the technical details, T&C of the agreement but I hope M&M would have studied them in detail and this won't turn out to be lost cause for them. I wouldn't have supported M&M if they would have really copied or cloned some other manufacturer's design or R&D, but M&M is doing nothing ethically wrong here.