[MetalBuff]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Jignesh & Metalbuff,

Jignesh, I think we met briefly at the Oye Punjab meet.

Thanks for all the inputs.
I am hoping to get the AT car checked out tomorrow and will keep you informed of the progress.
Also now been offered a SX4 Vxi 2011 Dec. Regd 2012 Feb. Single owner. Bom Reg. Run only 5000 Kms and fitted with a "sequential" CNG system (not by Maruti). Asking for 5.5L. I have driven the car but found it rather sluggish on CNG. Apart from that it is also in excellent condition. Owner going abroad.
Does anyone know what sequential means?
What do you guys think? By fitting the CNG outside the owner of the Vxi has invalidated the warranty whereas there is still a 1 year (extended) warranty on the SX4 AT.

A quick reply would be much appreciated.

Regards,

SS

Hello Suzuki San,

You will any which way void the warranty for the VXi when you implant the CNG kit so, I would suggest you to for the ZXi. As determined from your previous post, you were highly impressed with the ZXi. So, why pay extra man? Lol:

Not forgetting the superior feature list of the ZXi over the VXi. So, unless you have a certain color choice OR the mechanic points out a negative, should you go for the VXi.

As for the CNG kit, not much knowledge with me however, IIRC sequential kits are more commonly used and more preferred. A quick search here should be able to give you the requisite information. Apologies, for being unable to point to you the exact thread as, I am online through my iPod Touch :(


Do let us know the choice you finally make. All the best !!

[powertrain]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Does anyone know what sequential means?
A quick reply would be much appreciated.

Regards,

SS

Hello SS,
I would say go for the AT SX4. The price does seem fair. But do get it checked at the A.S.S
As for the info on CNG kits,here it is.

A Conventional CNG Kit & its functioning:-

The CNG Reducer supplies the CNG Gas to the Engine through a locally made Air Gas Mixture which is not supplied by the CNG Kit Manufacturer; it is then fitted on the Air Intake (Inlet Manifold) of the Engine. The CNG Gas and Air mixture is sucked by the Engine which travels through the manifold and reaches inside the engine, according to its firing order.
As there is no computer control over the flow of CNG gas into car’s engine in a conventional CNG Kit, an even flow of CNG gas mixture now enters into the combustion chamber and burns with the help of the Sparks generated by the Spark plugs fitted in the Cylinder Head. If the Plugs are week then the car can Backfire, resulting in a mild explosion within the engine compartment which is released through the Air Cleaner of the car. This can often result in blowing off the Air Cleaner assembly of the car. That is why many cars are found with busted Air Cleaner assy. Another drawback is a compromise of the Engine Power (roughly 10-30%), and loss of Engine Life due to poor pick up and A/C load.
With the improvement in Engine Technologies (BS-III) little improvement in the CNG Kit technology was achieved with the introduction of Lambda Controlled System(LCS) or Close loop System & Timing Advancers(TA). A little control of the Gas flow and poor pick up can be made up with this LCS and TA that are connected with the MAP Sensor, TPS & Oxygen Sensor (Lambda sensor) fitted in the Engine & Exhaust Manifold (Silencer) of the Car.
Due to the slight improvement in car’s pick-up with CNG Kits fitted with LCS and TA; more users started to switch to CNG from petrol and the use of A/C on CNG was more effective without compromising performance and engine’s life.

A Sequential CNG Kit and its functioning:-

With the further advancements in technology and need for better performance from CNG Kits users, Sequential CNG Kits were introduced to match the performance of EFI or MPFI car by delivering computer controlled CNG gas injection through nozzles(similar to injectors in petrol cars) which is matched to the engine’s original computer for better optimization, increased performance and power & even better fuel efficiency.
The Difference between a Sequential CNG Kit & Conventional CNG Kit is as same that of a Petrol Carburetor Car and MPFI Car. In MPFI cars the delivery and quantity of fuel is controlled by the Petrol Injectors installed in the Cylinder Head Assy.. The Injectors are connected with the Electronic Control Module (ECM) of the Car which takes signals from other sensors fitted and helps in improving the pick and mileage of the cars and helps in reduction of pollutants levels also.
A Sequential CNG Kit works the same way. It has a separate CNG gas ECM and multiple CNG Gas Injectors to control the flow and quantity of the CNG gas. These are installed just next to the petrol injectors on the engine cylinder head. CNG gas is pumped inside the engine’s combustion chamber which results in better fuel combustion resulting in better pickup, increased mileage, low engine load and no dust entry into the engine when compared to air-gas mixture installed in a conventional CNG Kit system. No modifications are required in the air intake system when using a Sequential CNG Kit system than compared to a Conventional CNG Kit system.
The size of the CNG reducer fitted is smaller than conventional CNG kit and supplies CNG directly to the CNG Injector rail which takes lesser engine space. The CNG Gas ECM is connected with the Engine ECM though specially Designed Waterproof Wiring which send the signals to the CNG Gas Injectors for gas injection.
The ECM receives signals from the MAP sensor fitted in the Car for proper quantity of the Gas to be released to the Injectors. The quantity of the CNG Gas is also monitored by the Vacuum Pipes installed. If there is any leakage in the Vacuum system the Gas Supply to the Engine is cut and it is automatically shifted to Petrol Mode with a buzzer sound installed in the Fuel Change over switch.
The system has a customized software design, which allows selection of Fuel change, Time, Temperature and Changeover RPM also. It comes with a very compact sized fuel selection switch with built in buzzer alarm which can be fitted easily anywhere. If the CNG GAS goes off while driving, the car automatically comes on Petrol with a buzzer sound. The user cannot judge the difference between the performance in Petrol / CNG and is useful for cars with Complex Engine Technologies or latest Engine Technologies.
The fully automatic and self-calibrated GAS ECM does not require tune ups on a regular basis which save maintenance costs. Even in case of problems the repairing is done through electronically using the software which automatically detects and fixes any faults in the system and takes much lesser time than manual calibration. Electronic maintenance reduces chances of human error and save a lot of time. Even when you take the car for regular service or maintenance, there is no need for the setting does not changes.

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by MetalBuff

Hello Suzuki San,

You will any which way void the warranty for the VXi when you implant the CNG kit so, I would suggest you to for the ZXi. As determined from your previous post, you were highly impressed with the ZXi. So, why pay extra man? Lol:

Not forgetting the superior feature list of the ZXi over the VXi. So, unless you have a certain color choice OR the mechanic points out a negative, should you go for the VXi.

As for the CNG kit, not much knowledge with me however, IIRC sequential kits are more commonly used and more preferred. A quick search here should be able to give you the requisite information. Apologies, for being unable to point to you the exact thread as, I am online through my iPod Touch :(


Do let us know the choice you finally make. All the best !!

Hi Metalbuff,

The Vxi already has the CNG kit installed by the first owner hence the higher price. It is also a 2012 model run only 5000Kms. However, I am leaning towards the AT as of now.
Thanks for your inputs.

Regards,

SS

Originally Posted by powertrain

Hello SS,
I would say go for the AT SX4. The price does seem fair. But do get it checked at the A.S.S
As for the info on CNG kits,here it is.

Hi Powertrain,

Thanks for the info. Very useful indeed. I now understand what the Maruti showroom guys were trying to tell me - that a CNG kit fitted by Maruti comes with 2 ECU's whereas the locally fitted ones rely on the single ECU.
Good to know that the sequential system has it's own ECU so no chance of damage to engine air box.

What is the safety quotient here?

I read in the papers just about a week ago about a car that ran over a divider and burst into flames. The two occupants were burnt to death as they could not get out - central locking jammed. What are the dangers of CNG? If something like this could happen how come the RTO are allowing CNG kits to be fitted locally - presuming of course that this was a locally fitted kit. Maruti guys say this can never happen to one of their factory fitted units as there is a cut off valve in case of excess gas flow i.e. break in the gas supply line.

What are your thoughts on the above?

Kind Regards,

SS

[Jignesh]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

What is the safety quotient here?
Maruti guys say this can never happen to one of their factory fitted units as there is a cut off valve in case of excess gas flow i.e. break in the gas supply line.

Hello SS,

I recently saw a Santro with CNG tank hit by a Tata Sumo from behind. Obviously this CNG kit was installed locally. Now the hatch door of Santro was badly damaged but the CNG cylinder was intact & there was no gas leak.

Also almost 80% of CNG Kits are installed locally & not by Company service stations & only 1 or 2 out of thousands of Cars catch fire. Thus the failure percentage is less than 0.1%. Further I hope you have read FrankMehta's thread on his experience on installing CNG kit in his pre-owned Honda Civic. Just by reading Frank's thread alone, you will be definitely convinced to go for locally installed CNG Kits.

Now regarding the car, I will surely prefer Dec 2011 (Feb 2012 Regd) car which is available for Rs5.5 lacs. I will suggest to just go for it. As far a warranty is concerned, generally nothing happens to critical components of Cars in initial 2 years.

Thanks,

[powertrain]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Hi Guys,

I have been offered a 2009 Dec SX4 Zxi - Automatic for Rs. 4,80,000.00. Car is Bombay Reg. Single owner. Run only 16K Kms.
Regards,
SS

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Also now been offered a SX4 Vxi 2011 Dec. Regd 2012 Feb. Single owner. Bom Reg. Run only 5000 Kms and fitted with a "sequential" CNG system (not by Maruti). Asking for 5.5L.

Regards,

SS

Hello SS,
Between the above 2 cars,I would suggest you to go for the ZXi AT.
Why?
- ABS & AIRBAGS.
In today's day & age, I need not explain to you the utter importance of these features. The value of these safety features will always be 1000 times more than the few bucks that you would save today.

Let's say you finalise on ZXi AT
Price - 4.8L
Seq.CNG kit - 0.5L [Approx.]
-----------------------------
Final Price - 5.3L. Even after installing the CNG kit you still save 20K's !!!Enough to pay your fuel bills for atleast 1-2 years,depending on your usage

Are CNG kits safe?
In most cases, it's not product but the process that is flawed. Anything that is done perfectly,works perfectly!!
In that sense, we don't know from whom the 1st buyer had installed the kit. What about periodic maintenance? Although for a car run just 5000 kms,I'm sure that it has not come under periodic maintenance. So rest assured.

This thread might help you - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/mumbai...ra-mumbai.html

All in all, you're better of buying the ZXi AT.

Hope this helps,
Varun

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by powertrain

Hello SS,
Between the above 2 cars,I would suggest you to go for the ZXi AT.
Why?
- ABS & AIRBAGS.
In today's day & age, I need not explain to you the utter importance of these features. The value of these safety features will always be 1000 times more than the few bucks that you would save today.

Let's say you finalise on ZXi AT
Price - 4.8L
Seq.CNG kit - 0.5L [Approx.]
-----------------------------
Final Price - 5.3L. Even after installing the CNG kit you still save 20K's !!!Enough to pay your fuel bills for atleast 1-2 years,depending on your usage

Are CNG kits safe?
In most cases, it's not product but the process that is flawed. Anything that is done perfectly,works perfectly!!
In that sense, we don't know from whom the 1st buyer had installed the kit. What about periodic maintenance? Although for a car run just 5000 kms,I'm sure that it has not come under periodic maintenance. So rest assured.

This thread might help you - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/mumbai...ra-mumbai.html

All in all, you're better of buying the ZXi AT.

Hope this helps,
Varun

Hi Varun,

My feelings exactly. This car will be for my son to use and I am very keen on the airbags and ABS apart from the other bits extra on a Zxi. My wife feels the same way as well so we will probably go for it. Sadly, the dealer is not willing to let me take it to an *** to get it checked out. I wanted the *** to plug in their scanner and check all the engine parameters apart from a check to see it is a non accident car. I personally don't think it is but one can never say. The *** will see things which I might have missed.

Will keep you updated and thanks for the inputs.

Regards,

SS

[kmadhok]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

we will probably go for it. SS

If this is in Mumbai, I think I have an eye on it too .

For others in Mumbai who are interested, there are a batch of VW Vento's (AT) auctioned by the company itself which have suddenly flooded the used card market. These are all Oct 2011 (NOT verified by VIN) Pune registered White Vento AT. (There may be some manual but I was inquiring about ATs only). I was briefly interested in them before I decided against VW and Skoda to have peace of mind. Of the batch, Madhuban Toyota in Khar (W) is quoting 6.6-6.9 L for the 2 cars they have (12 and 24K on the ODO). Caravan Cars have three from the same lot and are quoting 1L more for roughly the same ODO readings. They have uploaded the photos on carwale.com and they look to be in good share. When I inquired last week, the folks at Madhuban Toyota kept chasing me for the next 3 days. I wasn't able to go since I don't live or work close by there, and then I briefly thought about a new Vento (0% interest) and then decided totally against it. Thought I would share this info for others who may be interested.

[autocrazy]

Originally Posted by Jignesh

I would suggest you to go for used Maruti Zen instead as your budget is not more than Rs. 75,000. Though Fiat Palio 1.6 is a good car, but spares parts are very costly & generally limited in supply. Also Fiat Palio will give really low mileage.

Thanks,

Thanks for your reply, however I need a car to drive on Mumbai Pune expressway + also be able to do airport runs and seat 5 passengers in comfort.

Reading threads on Kava automobiles and Shetty motors, it seems spares are available - unless somebody has had poor recent experience in mumbai to locate Fiat Palio spares?

[donquixote]

My first post on Team-BHP! I am planning to sell my Esteem Vxi Euro-Il Model purchased in Dec 2000 having driven 1 Lakh and 6 thousand KMs so far (single driver). Any advice on how much I can expect for it ? Thanks!

[MetalBuff]

Originally Posted by donquixote

My first post on Team-BHP! I am planning to sell my Esteem Vxi Euro-Il Model purchased in Dec 2000 having driven 1 Lakh and 6 thousand KMs so far (single driver). Any advice on how much I can expect for it ? Thanks!

Hello,

Welcome aboard!!!

Something around the 65-70000 mark (depending upon the condition) considering, prices in Bangalore are on the higher side. Please ensure you strike a deal with an individual as, dealers will quote half of the above mentioned amount (Comes from my personal experience of trying to part with my 05 Esteem VXi)

Man, cars depreciate like stink these days

[theexperthand]

Need help!

My friend is planning to sell his Chevrolet Spark LS - 2010 model, driven 21K kms. The car is in very good condition - minor scratches on the body.

How much can we expect for the car?

Thanks
Anoop.

[Neur0t0xin]

I have posted an ad in our classifieds section for a Ford Figo 2011 1.4 Diesel Titanium model. The car belongs to my friend and is in an excellent condition.
What price can we expect for this?

http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...or-sale/25293/

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by suzuki san

Sadly, the dealer is not willing to let me take it to an *** to get it checked out. I wanted the *** to plug in their scanner and check all the engine parameters apart from a check to see it is a non accident car. I personally don't think it is but one can never say. The *** will see things which I might have missed.

That should ring a few alarm bells IMO. Please discuss this in detail with the dealer over this - why is he not allowing that? Atleast try to get all service records for the car before you sign the deal.

[suzuki san]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

That should ring a few alarm bells IMO. Please discuss this in detail with the dealer over this - why is he not allowing that? Atleast try to get all service records for the car before you sign the deal.

Hi Ninjatalli,

I am also a bit concerned about this. Had the car checked by my Maruti mechanic on Saturday. He says no accidents and all original however steering is too hard for a VVT engine (which was launched with a bigger steering motor). Also some knocking noise from the steering. He says replacement of entire steering assembly (if required) could cost Rs. 30K. There is an extended warranty on the car and Sai Service (this is a Sai Service extended warranty - not Maruti) have said they will honour the warranty even if the car is transferred.
Dealer was not willing to accept this and attitude changed completely when he saw my mechanic was from Maruti.
He is now willing to let me take the car to a authorised service station after I put down the token money.
We all know what that means. Once the cash is handed over, that's it.
Let's see. I am going back this morning to try and convince him again.

Regards,
SS

[sindabad.sailor]

Hello All,

Reposting my querry here.

Sister is looking for an i10 AT pre owned. I chanced upon one in Pune which I checked on Sunday.

It is Sportz variant, 2009 Oct regd Automatic with genuine 42000km. Tyres have enough tread for another 8-10k km in city I guess. Spare tyre is completely new with all blue and other markings intact. Owner claims that he didn't even once have flat tyre and hence spare tyre remained completely unused. 40k service has been done at Hyundai. This is not Kappa2 but Kappa engine version.

Car has 3 main visible damages. Right side aft door has a big dent and metal is bare. Left side rear column has another. Front bumper is dislocated from a side.

Inside seat covers are run down however original fabric cover is as good as new since it always wore seat covers. Dash would need deep cleaning.

The test was good. Engine sounded good. AT repsponded well and suspension seemed ok for city run abouts.

Owner expecting 3.3 Lac. Pls guide how much should it be valued at. I am not much worried about outside as he precisely showed me locations within his parking where he hit the car to get dents which are matching.

I do not have enough time to keep searching other cars as locally here no one buys ATs. Hence I have to club checking them during my other visits to Pune.

Grateful for advice on how much should I pay for this one.

Rgds.