[sahakar]

Originally Posted by throttleking

and thats where I see Merlin will go wrong, by pricing base version above 10 lakhs

Above 10 lakhs and its a definite flop. I hope they learn from the Aria experience.

Cheers

[harimakesh]

Originally Posted by shortbread

The Safari is doing the best numbers of its career this past year. It will not do the Scorpio numbers as its only a proper 5 seater thus only brought by private buyers. Taxi/fleet operators do not see Safari as a practical option and in a way thats a good thing.

If TATA expects the Safari in Merlin refresh avtar to do large volume business like Scorpio then they must be realistic in pricing that Safari/Merlin is just a five seater SUV styled vehicle that is being offered with ABS, Airbags 4x4 as features at higher variants.

For a 4x2 base variant if they think of charging 10L for sure it will be flop. It will sell volumes if the pricing is correct lower than Scorpio base variant and ABS/Airbags/4x4 are given to customer to build on their choice of variant.

IMHO TATA is in Nano investment loss recovery mode on its other passenger cars as it is evident that over price all their cars in the past year subsequent to total flop of NANO.

[shortbread]

@ Harimakesh,

Your language is very confusing. Now if you are trying to say that the Safari should be priced cheaper because its primarily a 5 seater then that defies logic. Seating capacity does not dictate the price of a car, or else the Swift should be priced cheaper than an Omini!!

Secondly Tata's attempt (albeit a struggling one!!) at the fleet/taxi market is the Sumo range and not Safari. Like I mentioned before simply making a cheap Safari will not penetrate the fleet market and give it volumes, it has to be a practical 7+ seater which it definitely isn't. Tata has squarely aimed the Safari at private SUV buyers.

Finally nobody knows what the price is going to be. Also fully loaded 2WD variants of the Safari or Scorpio costs north of 9 lacs already. Who else is really selling an SUV in India with ABS, Airbags etc... for under 10 lacs??!!

[harimakesh]

Originally Posted by shortbread

@ Harimakesh,

Your language is very confusing. Now if you are trying to say that the Safari should be priced cheaper because its primarily a 5 seater then that defies logic. Seating capacity does not dictate the price of a car, or else the Swift should be priced cheaper than an Omini!!

Secondly Tata's attempt (albeit a struggling one!!) at the fleet/taxi market is the Sumo range and not Safari. Like I mentioned before simply making a cheap Safari will not penetrate the fleet market and give it volumes, it has to be a practical 7+ seater which it definitely isn't. Tata has squarely aimed the Safari at private SUV buyers.

Finally nobody knows what the price is going to be. Also fully loaded 2WD variants of the Safari or Scorpio costs north of 9 lacs already. Who else is really selling an SUV in India with ABS, Airbags etc... for under 10 lacs??!!

As Scorpio and Safari both 2.2Engined the differentiator for private non offroading buyers is features+seating capacity for non 4x4 models. Scorpio SLE offers ABS while Safari EX does not offer it but still expensive. Tata is confused on its positioning of Safari for long.

Now Merlin refresh is a window of opportunity for Tata on Safari to become a successful volume maker if it cared on features, sensible price with reliability on QC

[Pal]

right...

the response is scary! just the reason behind my abstinence from posting all these years! hehe
anyways, for the record, not a T-man anymore (another story). but even so, I wouldnt reveal ANY nos (specs/dates/costs) purely as just like me, im sure there are other employees doing phantom rounds of this knowldge tree called teambhp!

1) First up, the doubts of diluting the character by the reduced wishbone travel. Well dont sweat. If anything that may dilute the Safari feel are the korean looks-my strong opinion. Mechanically, it is, by DNA an sUv! But somehow SUV the word itself if getting diluted (I mean I get baffled as how a Scorpio, Yeti AND a Porsche Cayenne Turbo are all SUVs-this cant do that and that, definately can do this!) Handling-wise the present gen veh was lovable on straight never-ending tarmacs, but each time u'd throw it around a corner, the passengers would invariably let off a lil pee! "wuhh"! Its admirable then how Tata's are beginning to get the 'mis' out of their handling reports. So trust me, a much much improved on-road handling package with slight let-go off off roads "olympics" is what this gonna be! but if someone really wanted to do those high jumps, id suggest you this.

2) Turning radius reduced? yes yes yes! after driving all those freshly baked 2.2s everyday, the first time i drove a 'merlin', I giggled!

3) yes, it will have them huge airbags, but of course, not on base variants (We're in India, remember?)

4) ARB = Anti Roll Bar. New designs! hurrah!

5) Ground clearance is def not an issue guys, you'd still own the road and your poor ma-in-laws would still have to climb into one! (evil smile)

6) current safari to be discountinued? hmmm. let me give you a hint --> Indica Xeta, Indica V3, Indica Vista, Sumo, Sumo Victa, Sumo GrandeMk2, Indigo CS, Indigo XL, Indigo Manza, Indi-sorryijustwontlet-go...

7) Earlier when friends asked of the interior quality standards of the 2.2 safari, it made me switch off the light and say 'good night folks' and curl up in bed! But for this one,u know, Id still keep that little candle on u see the Design/ Sourcing/ QA AND Production depts have had a rap on their knuckles for the prev shoddy work by the new Global QA head, Mr. Wolfram Liedtke (God Bless him, one reason I say there is massive hope! What an engineer!) I experience the Interiors in semi-finished, i.e. protos were still being kaizened over, but this is where the Merlin revels as a true-blue Safari (with all its Ups and a few new flips!) so wont say much before launch. more on that later.

8) Safari hasnt had its best year, cmon! We had seen better days (sigh)!

9) Oh, and I see the 'bulges' over the rear fixed glass area is something that is generating loads of curiosity! Interesting...

hope this sorts out a few of your queries. and hoping it generates a whole lo more!!! thanks for all the encouragement on my debut guys. you can very well see im bloated by the length of this post! gr8 to be in

Happy Driving!

[quadra]

Pal, read and re-read your posts couple of times now. Great job my friend. Nothing like knowing things before anyone else does

Agar Climate control bhi mil jata to.....ahem!!!

[andromeda]

Thanks Pal for your awesome insights. Tata definitely need a product make up the numbers. If Merlin is a 5/6 seater (mid-size) SUV & safari replacement then it's competitors are more like Force One, maybe XUV500 or Fortuner, even though the later is at a different price range. Believe Scorpio is more of a full-size SUV and must be competing with Sumo. We do know the reason why private buyers prefer the former. Curious to know how right Merlin is in targeting potential Scorpio customers ?

[phani]

Thanks pal,Your insights indeed makes the wait interesting and worthwhile.
Point 6 suggests they co-exists togather? If yes what would be the price differece.

[Kairalee]

Pal's post seems very encouraging in terms of the quality enhancements to the Merlin. If Tata can really bring out a quality product, they will continue to retain their loyal customers as well as get many more.

Apparently a lot of hope and anticipation in the market as well as impending competition.

Hoefully the new Global QA head, Mr. Wolfram Liedtke will make a difference in the final product this time around.

[rahul016]

Guys just wanted to share something.I went to the dealership today here in Dehradun.The service adviser told me that a team has gone for training of Merlin.He said the car is expected to be here in Dec or Jan.Also the spare wheel has been moved under the body because of the feedback received from customers of Safari who complained about poor rear visibility.
He added that he still prefer the rear of current Safari over Merlin.

[ijeet]

Thanks pal for the insight into Merlin.

Can you please tell is TATA doing any improvements to current gen Safari? If they are taking so much time to get Merlin right then I think they must be doing somethign for current Safari also. Can you pleae confirm.

Second thing, Do you think there will be any changes to current Safari interiors? Its been almost one year since I am waiting to buy Safari. I don't really like Merlin looks and on the other hand not been able to buy current Safari due to its legendary niggle-full status and crappy interiors.

Hope they upgrade interior of current Safari also and give us niggle free Merlin and Safari Classic.

-Ijeet

[Crazy4Power]

Hi Pal,

Thanks for the insight of Merlin. I am sure for many Teambhpians the deal breker will be 4x4 L option in Merlin. Please through some light on Offroad capabilities of Merlin w.r.t. Safari.
I think TATA should atleast release the specifications, so all of us have something to compare with XUV 500 and we don't endup booking XUV 500.
TATA should realise that we guys have waited almost 2 years for Merlin, means our old cars have already given up and they are taking few last breaths.I am afraid many Merlin customers will choose XUV 500 if it meets there requirement.

TATA pls release the specs & possible month of launch.

Thanks!

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Pal

right...

the response is scary! just the reason behind my abstinence from posting all these years! hehe
anyways, for the record, not a T-man anymore (another story). but even so, I wouldnt reveal ANY nos (specs/dates/costs) purely as just like me, im sure there are other employees doing phantom rounds of this knowldge tree called teambhp!

Mr. Pal one question from my side. Is Tata going to continue with the foolishness of 4x4 available only in Top model with Merlin too. Or will they take pity and offer 4x4 in the lower end models also.

[condor]

And another example about 4x4: Sumo 4x4 is available on only in the lowest variant. Not any of the higher levels. Though, 4x4 was available on the higher variants of Sumo earlier

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by condor

And another example about 4x4: Sumo 4x4 is available on only in the lowest variant. Not any of the higher levels. Though, 4x4 was available on the higher variants of Sumo earlier

Sumo 4X4 ??? Available for civilian market? Thought it was only for military and other defence uses. Didn't know about it.