[ishotmydog]

visited this factory as part of our college industrial tour, we went around only in the skoda production facility but we saw them testing the A4 outside.

it is a huge factory and we got to see the superb/ laura production line, was a pretty awesome experience.

[Screwdriva]

Thats why VW has been one of the most successful car companies during this recession. They share so many components that are not tangible to the end user i.e. the owner. Between 3 brands, the law of economies of scale will always win.

I feel terrible for most A4 owners though. They end up splurging so much money for essentially the same underlyings, same engines with different finishings and looks. On the flip side, that makes Skodas great value for money.

[ganesh_evo75]

]VOLKSWAGEN group, German, no matter how big or how serious Automobile giant they are, but at the same time there policies and approach towards Indian market can be termed as unorganised and selfish. ( also typical Hitler mindset, egoist and dominating )]
As VW group is in India, me as an Indian automobile enthusiast have some remarks and views of this Auto giant,
Since Skoda as a Czech manufacturer, controlled by VW group decided to enter India in late nineties, what we can say as VW's first step towards Indian Automobile industry, this so called first step itself was a proof of VW group nature of fear of failure. Skoda from the day one was suppose to be “Bali Ka Bakra " and till date the brand is treated like that.
VW group has always given step child treatment to Skoda. We can easily trace out how much confusion was there regarding what to launch (Felicia, Fabia or Octavia) and with whom ( Eicher or Firodia's ), the news to enter was in 1996-97 and could only realise in 2000. VW group not really much concerned and Skoda’s infamous officials at that time could only wait and watch for decisions & orders from VW. but at last with some Import kits and slower assembly started there inning here. The biggest plaque in Skoda since earlier days till even today is the inexperienced and non-technical higher & middle management and officials, lack of co-ordination between manufacturing, marketing, service, warranty and logistic departments, and we know the consequences of all this as no one is ready to associate the brand with peace of mind. And all this year VW never seriously tried to correct or streamlines this. I still remember the days in 2002-03-04, almost any spare would be made available in “chore” market in Aurangabad, thanks to some higher official in spares who was in hurry to make more and more money.
Production at the temporary plant in Waluj and then Shendra use to vary according to availability of kits they have for assembly, no proper strategy was been followed , the board meetings were more to resolve political issues and game plan such was worst the situation. The then MD himself was more concern for his own progress and benefits. Models like old Fabia sedan, Combi would have been great success, but VW group poor attention, Skoda's own selfish and confused officials never gave proper thought & strategy to build up strong base in the market.
VW even today treat Skoda brand as trial & error brand in Indian market, not only this but VW makes sure that Skoda peoples should be a team of confused & directionless group. VW for the sake of Passat the VFM product like Superb gets an PD engine at launch ( New Superb ) and after watching Passat not getting success then only gave green signal to Skoda to use CR TDi to be used in Superb now. As i said trial and error brand Skoda was first allowed to use TSI engines in there range so that if at all those engine fails to deliver then the harm would be to Skoda, but the TSI succeded and now VW thought its OK to use TSI in Jetta and Passat. Sibling rivalry across all model line, be it the Laura v/s Jetta, Passat v/s Superb and biggest between Fabia v/s Polo it is always Skoda who has to survive. Sibling rivalry will be very intense between Skoda/ Audi/ VW, if proper policies are not followed. Service part of the Skoda is the weakest link in the whole operation.
Audi at other end is looked upon as an brand to just make fat profit. Why is VW limiting the potential of Audi in Indian market where comparable brand like Merc and BMW are making not only huge profit but decent sales figures and also gaining lot of respect and reputation on India. If we minus Q7 & Q5, there is nothing really happening with the Audi brand.
A4, A6 if not A8, are still very good and promising products. But lack of proper marketing, inconvenient engine options, lack of assurance in service marketing etc. also giving this otherwise popular brand, negative publicity. With Audi well known brand to Indians because of its association with Cricket & Ravi Shastri, VW or Audi themselves never tried or explored the possibility of further strengthening the same relation.
When Volvo can do it by sponsoring cars for cricket series and TV commercials in-between live cricket matches, Audi almost lost the same rightfully easy opportunity.
To VW, i would like to say,
“We know our vehicle buying parameters are very different than the rest of the world, we almost expect a package of best of all worlds, but then it’s your skill to deliver near to it, if you want to survive. We and the whole world knows that there are only couple of numbers of platform you have ( with umpteen thousand common parts ) in here on which many VW group of companies ( VW, Skoda, Audi, Seat etc ) production models are based and shared. Now it's because to reduce production, sharing of assembly line and so on, but then it also increases your profit, so why not pass some price benefit to consumer. Restructuring pricing over entire range is necessary. Again with so much common spares all over the range, its hard to believe spares scarcity, provision of required spares should be number one priority to succeed. And with respect to service part especially Skoda, Beg Borrow or Steal service peoples from Maruti, Hyundai or Tata, or easier way is to find some Automobile Enthu members at Team-Bhp to resolve the issues. Other manufacturer are already into different league as far as service part is considered, they are coming up with better and better service packages like road side assistance, 24 X 7 service, etc and you are lacking ABC of service provisions. And finally if you are looking success from India, meet our expectations, give us satisfaction and happiness if not lot of pampering ( considering rate of development of our market ). Don’t show us the money by increasing stakes & shares here and there, rather invest in R & D especially for India, cause in terms of money our business and industrial Tycoons are capable enough to gulp big companies in single stroke ".
I hope if at all my words affects the VW group, may it be in positive way.
Best of Luck.

[AlokSriva]

Originally Posted by ganesh_evo75

]VOLKSWAGEN group, German, no matter how big or how serious ....
... I hope if at all my words affects the VW group, may it be in positive way.
Best of Luck.

Hmm... an interesting perspective Ganesh.
BTW, is it just me or others can also sense inside information in this post? Nothing wrong with that, but yes, it surely does sound like emotions of a disillusioned stakeholder (whether vendor, employee etc.)
I sincerely hope you haven't been wronged a bit too much the way Skoda has wronged its customers in India.

[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by ganesh_evo75

The then MD himself was more concern for his own progress and benefits.

Agreed. I think the then MD was the owner of the now infamous Nummer Eins (read harishv).

Models like old Fabia sedan, Combi would have been great success, but VW group poor attention, Skoda's own selfish and confused officials never gave proper thought & strategy to build up strong base in the market.

I don't quite agree. Their strategy succeeded in Skoda perceived as a "luxury" and "premium" brand in India. Only the Superb failed, while the Laura took the fight to the Accord with equipment levels inspite of being just a new-gen Octy, and the Octy itself established itself as the benchmark diesel sedan for many years. Would a model in the lower price bracket have helped?

Conversely, of course, they've messed up the Fabia terribly. Hyundai and Fiat have shown them how it's done with the Punto and i20.

VW for the sake of Passat the VFM product like Superb gets an PD engine at launch ( New Superb ) and after watching Passat not getting success then only gave green signal to Skoda to use CR TDi to be used in Superb now.

This was stupid of them, I agree. Although even the PD Superb sold very well.

Audi...inconvenient engine options...

Actually Audi has the best engine range across their A4 and A6 models. Everything from economy (1.8T & 2.0 TDi) to balls-out performance (3.2 TFSI V6 & 3.0 TDi Quattro).

[quattroa4]

yeah evo_75 , thats a good point . VW making experiments with skoda brand and never letting it or never correcting it with proper guidence .
otherwise it should have been a far more establish player in the market then it is now and hence proper sales also . laura should have been inthe place of toyota altis by then and though superb is killing accord it should have been doing so far more convincingly .
putting jetta in the market is going to be always troublesome for both the brands , then why to put it there ?

[ganesh_evo75]

Originally Posted by AlokSriva

Hmm... an interesting perspective Ganesh.
BTW, is it just me or others can also sense inside information in this post? Nothing wrong with that, but yes, it surely does sound like emotions of a disillusioned stakeholder (whether vendor, employee etc.)
I sincerely hope you haven't been wronged a bit too much the way Skoda has wronged its customers in India.

Thanks,
dear Alok, i am no way related with VW group in past or present ( don't know about future ), but as the Skoda is base, there were many known peoples in & around Skoda.

[ganesh_evo75]

Originally Posted by flyingspur

Agreed. I think the then MD was the owner of the now infamous Nummer Eins (read harishv).

I don't quite agree. Their strategy succeeded in Skoda perceived as a "luxury" and "premium" brand in India. Only the Superb failed, while the Laura took the fight to the Accord with equipment levels inspite of being just a new-gen Octy, and the Octy itself established itself as the benchmark diesel sedan for many years. Would a model in the lower price bracket have helped?


Actually Audi has the best engine range across their A4 and A6 models. Everything from economy (1.8T & 2.0 TDi) to balls-out performance (3.2 TFSI V6 & 3.0 TDi Quattro).

I am not at all questioning the Octavia success story, but imagine Fabia Sedan and Combi ( Old Fabia ), in price bracket of 7.00 lac's to 8.5 lac's, competing with Dezire, Verna, Ford Fiesta, etc,..

I agree partly, but what i think is altogether defferent engine option, not offered atleast in low price Skoda cars. Now consider 1.8 Tsi in A4 is same as in Laura TSI, almost same performance, little dynamics difference and a badge you pay more then double price, same with 2,0 TDI, does it make sense ?? and the 3.0 TDI launched just now.
And yes no doubt about 3.2 Tfsi, good engine.

[AlokSriva]

Originally Posted by ganesh_evo75

Thanks,
dear Alok, i am no way related with VW group in past or present ( don't know about future ), but as the Skoda is base, there were many known peoples in & around Skoda.

Sure, you brought a completely new dimension to the discussion and hence, I was left wondering

[quattroa4]

Originally Posted by ganesh_evo75

I am not at all questioning the Octavia success story, but imagine Fabia Sedan and Combi ( Old Fabia ), in price bracket of 7.00 lac's to 8.5 lac's, competing with Dezire, Verna, Ford Fiesta, etc,..

I agree partly, but what i think is altogether defferent engine option, not offered atleast in low price Skoda cars. Now consider 1.8 Tsi in A4 is same as in Laura TSI, almost same performance, little dynamics difference and a badge you pay more then double price, same with 2,0 TDI, does it make sense ?? and the 3.0 TDI launched just now.
And yes no doubt about 3.2 Tfsi, good engine.

thats for what i wanted to take A4 3.2 tfsi , and hence the name quattroA4 , but price is whats bothering me , should have been cheaper by at least 4-5 lks .

[ganesh_evo75]

This is what i've seen some time back in the plant, could not get the pic clearly in zoom mode, but looks like either A8 or Phaeton.
will try to catch it soon...

[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by ganesh_evo75

I agree partly, but what i think is altogether defferent engine option, not offered atleast in low price Skoda cars. Now consider 1.8 Tsi in A4 is same as in Laura TSI, almost same performance, little dynamics difference and a badge you pay more then double price, same with 2,0 TDI, does it make sense ?? and the 3.0 TDI launched just now.
And yes no doubt about 3.2 Tfsi, good engine.

I think everyone does that to take advantage of platform-sharing and economies of scale. The 320d, 520d and X3 share the same engine, as do some of the higher models, maybe with a little difference in tuning and output etc. but basically the same engine. Anyway I got your point. Mercedes does it too. Heck, Maruti only plays around with a handful of engines in it's entire lineup

[shatrughna]

It had me in splits. I can imagine what you meant as I have suffered it once and since then rarely leave my car unattended in risky places. IMHO they should think of welding and bolting the logo with a nut from inside the boot and bonnet cover/door. Currently, it is just a hard flick with a screwdriver that it takes to remove a logo.

Originally Posted by flyingspur

Off topic, but I want some of these Mumbai miscreants to go and steal those bloody king-size monograms off the factory wall. Maybe that way the manufacturers will take the problem seriously and think of a solution to the monogram-flicking plague that's afflicted Mumbai and other places.

I know, it's not the manufacturers fault, but the cops aren't doing anything about it. Sigh.

[imp!]

Originally Posted by flyingspur

@ quattroa4 : If Audi were the first to come up with a cut-price A4, I honestly think people would still not have jumped on it the way they would the BMW CE or the MB EE. Audi just doesn't have the brand equity that the other two command. Believe me, I'm a big Audi fan and went with BMW largely because of BSI, so don't get me wrong here.

When Audi cuts prices, it's viewed from the perspective that they aren't selling so they have to do it to clear stock / attract customers or whatever. When BMW / MB do it, it's a fantastic buy at a lower price and oh lookie, everyone can get one it seems.

I don't agree with this mindset, but it's true and hard to argue with. The A6 "anniversary edition" or whatever. 37L ex-sh and there are hardly any around. Heck, does anyone even care that it's Audi's 100-year celebrations or whatever else it is they're celebrating? People don't even KNOW !! Audi's marketing fails miserably. And VW's too frankly. Both have attempted lovely newspaper-full features and it simply isn't translating into sales.

Originally Posted by AlokSriva

Bingo! You've hit the bull's eye and I completely agree with you on this.
It is a severe catch-22 for Audi so far as pricing of its vehicles in India is concerned.

Yes, but what if Audi were to cut prices, keeping equipment level higher than CE BMW/Merc AND offer their 6 speed manual Trans? This will place them smack in the middle of the runway as far as being enthusiast machines are concerned (Which is what they have been aiming for a while now); then after a few months, they can offer a CE of the automatic and still not lose face.

[kadri007]

I still wonder why is that Skoda is having so many Quality Issues where as Audi & VW are manufactured in the same place doesnt has quality issues.

The way VW is focusing on quality looks very strange when it comes to Skoda. Is VW closing its eyes when it comes to Skoda.

Why is VW not doing the same stringent quality checks for Skoda vehicles. Or is VW going to repeat the same story of Skoda.