[motomaverick]

Originally Posted by rohanjf

Fiat will not make any money in royalties. Fiat shared the technology of this engine with GM years ago, after the failed merger.

In India, GM itself will manufacture this engine.

I was referring to the likes of Maruti and Tata.

Fiat actually didnt share it was a deal made between Fiat and GM Europe engineers to get access for only 1.3 MultiJet of Fiat to GM. GM has no access to any other multijet variants like 1.9 or 1.6 or 1.3 MultiJet2. AFAIK, GM still has no rights to make MultiJet outside Europe and import to Europe which Fiat can do. So not sure how in India they can manufacture the engine without Fiat. Plus if you look at the ECU, Powertrain etc that MultiJet uses, it all benefits Fiat.

[sanstorm]

This car is decent and though will not going to be a head turner or leader in sales. It potentially can do steady 1000-1200 units/month for GM, India.

This should still be lot better than the miniscule 2/3 digits of UVA/Aveo

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijaythacker
why the hell on earth manufacturers think to place those power window switches next to gear levels over there, i mean why not to provide those switches to its regular positioning at drivers side door??
scoop shots shows the rear seats spacious and comfort as well along with the extended longish rear door.

Lower cost. You need to provide fewer switches as mid mounted ones can be shared by driver and passenger. I guess it helps to reduce wiring length and complexity too.

Of topic, I have Palio with rear windows switches control in center. It so convenient, specially with the two little mosters sitting in back. I do sometimes miss it in my Cruze.

It may be eyesore or cost cutting, but practical none the less.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by motomaverick

I was referring to the likes of Maruti and Tata.

Fiat actually didnt share it was a deal made between Fiat and GM Europe engineers to get access for only 1.3 MultiJet of Fiat to GM. GM has no access to any other multijet variants like 1.9 or 1.6 or 1.3 MultiJet2. AFAIK, GM still has no rights to make MultiJet outside Europe and import to Europe which Fiat can do. So not sure how in India they can manufacture the engine without Fiat. Plus if you look at the ECU, Powertrain etc that MultiJet uses, it all benefits Fiat.

Fiat Actually did not share anything, if i recall correctly from the media reports those days, 1.3 SDE was more of a joint Effort between Opel Engineers and FIAT, though Base technology came from FIAT. GM Ended up paying 2 Billion dollars to FIAT for that failed marriage but they got the non-exclusive rights to 1.3 SDE engine technology . GM used to own 25% of suzuki those days and IMO by the way of this relationship Suzuki got this 1.3 Engine from FIAT for its swift model

This same Technology is the reason why GM was able to develop the 1.0 Diesel which powers the beat diesel. Its pity that GM sold of its shares in suzuki in 2009 or we would have surely seen this 1.0 diesel engines in all the Maruti vehicles in India.

In my opinion, GM very much has the right to manufacture the engine anywhere in the globe. In earlier media reports GM India had indicated capability of manufacturing these diesel engines and petrol engine manufacturing in the same plant. I don't know how it benefits FIAT in anyway. I think for a technology developed in 2004 (Best Engine of the year awards that year as well) FIAT has already reaped the full profits and they would rather distribute this technology to one and anyone and would rather focus on the next generation engine technologies for their exclusive use.

[motomaverick]

Originally Posted by sanstorm

This car is decent and though will not going to be a head turner or leader in sales. It potentially can do steady 1000-1200 units/month for GM, India.

This should still be lot better than the miniscule 2/3 digits of UVA/Aveo



Of topic, I have Palio with rear windows switches control in center. It so convenient, specially with the two little mosters sitting in back. I do sometimes miss it in my Cruze.

It may be eyesore or cost cutting, but practical none the less.

I think earlier Santro's specially the XO variant used to come with rear power windows in the console. It is kind of practical but then it also had door modules for the front, so a similar approach might be more welcome rather than all on the center console. Besides how much can you expect the manufacturer to save by doing this.

Originally Posted by anu21v

Fiat Actually did not share anything, if i recall correctly from the media reports those days, 1.3 SDE was more of a joint Effort between Opel Engineers and FIAT, though Base technology came from FIAT. GM Ended up paying 2 Billion dollars to FIAT for that failed marriage but they got the non-exclusive rights to 1.3 SDE engine technology . GM used to own 25% of suzuki those days and IMO by the way of this relationship Suzuki got this 1.3 Engine from FIAT for its swift model

This same Technology is the reason why GM was able to develop the 1.0 Diesel which powers the beat diesel. Its pity that GM sold of its shares in suzuki in 2009 or we would have surely seen this 1.0 diesel engines in all the Maruti vehicles in India.

In my opinion, GM very much has the right to manufacture the engine anywhere in the globe. In earlier media reports GM India had indicated capability of manufacturing these diesel engines and petrol engine manufacturing in the same plant. I don't know how it benefits FIAT in anyway. I think for a technology developed in 2004 (Best Engine of the year awards that year as well) FIAT has already reaped the full profits and they would rather distribute this technology to one and anyone and would rather focus on the next generation engine technologies for their exclusive use.

I guess we are going OT here so let me finish off this discussion by saying that who ever is reaping the benefits it does not matter as it is us, end consumers who are for sure rejoicing with the performance and efficiency of this engine. Fiat would not be in the market if its not seeing profits its just that it requires some fresh cars or more promotions for the current two really well designed products.

[M.R.Boruwa]

I had the opportunity of driving this model during my last trip to China. Version was 1.4 l Automatic.

Not sure how much of this car will be tuned to suit Indian conditions, as the one I drove in China the experience was not at all pleasurable.
Interiors Impression: The interior was very plasticky and reminded me of my good old Indica. It appeared of the same quality and color (Gray )but fit and finish was taken care.

Interior Space was more in line with Ford Fiesta. Boot space was also decent might be sitting in between Indigo CS and Manza space wise.

Driving Impression: The car had a decent pick-up but roll-on above 80 KMPH were very sluggish. The ride was bumpy and noticeable amount of over steer was present. That happened where the roads are very good, on Indian roads it will remind rear seat passengers of good old Leaf spring suspension of Maruti 800 where on a bad stress of road passenger will be floating above the seat.

Ref:

Sail Hatchback

Sail Sedan


I also saw the new gen Aveo with very aggressive styling and alluring interiors but could not manage the opportunity to get behind the steering wheel .

Aveo


Reference sites are in Chinese, Google translator should do the trick.

It will be nice to see cars like New Gen Aveo on Indian roads which will be at par with the competition.

[motomaverick]

Originally Posted by M.R.Boruwa

I had the opportunity of driving this model during my last trip to China. Version was 1.4 l Automatic.

That Aveo sure looks a stunner with those aggressive double barrel head lights. So unless the price is right the Sail would be a bummer at least for the enthusiasts or people who are conscious of back passenger comfort

[rock75]

If priced around Ford figo , this will surely do well. It is a very practial car and with the tried and tested multijet diesel, it can easily do 2500-3000 per month. Sail is already the biggest sales volume car with around 30,000 units sold per month.

With better space and good suspension plus great mileage at a lower price and 3 year maintenance package (and no wait period!) makes a good value proposition to me. Now it is up to chevrolet bosses to price is sensibly initially so that it doesn't fail! Since only other models doing decently are Beat, tavera and cruze, chevrolet can't afford to go wrong here like with Aveo!

[CARDEEP]

ACI has reported that the Sail UV-A (hatch) will be launched on Nov 02, 12. The engines are 79bhp 1.2L Petrol & 68bhp 1.3L diesel.

Expected prices for the base variant are Rs.4.2 Lacs for the Petrol & Rs.5.8 Lacs for the Diesel.

Link to ACI's report:

http://www.autocarindia.com/News/319...-on-nov-2.aspx

It appears that they are using smaller turbocharger for the MJD, due to which the power output is lower, but the lag will also be lower (as per review report on different auto-mag websites).

[anu21v]

Looks like 2nd November date as reported by ACI is the final launch date.... also confirmed by another website.

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/cars/c...er-2012-63298/

[puchoo]

i can add another confirmation as well to the above , thanks to sources in GM , that it is scheduled for the 2nd , however there are still a few days to go and there is always a chance for a postponement by a few days.

[throttleking]

Found this Sail hatch testing in Aundh, in Pune. Looks very similar to Figo.

[acroback]

Saw a Sail Sedan near Kadugodi today.
Could not take a picture but it looked good enough to me.

Perhaps a launch nearby?

[Harbir]

This has got to be the dumbest tachometer I have ever seen.

WHoever caused this is a moron. And if they are reading this, I think they are stupid, I will say it to their faces.

Heck, that little fuel gauge would have made a better tach, that little stack of LEDs growing and falling with the revs than what they have done. With the digits of the tach constantly changing, that tach will be completely useless except in very slow acceleration and deceleration.

I'm guessing this is a cost cutting decision and the engineers were forced to choose between no tach at all and this one, so they made this choice. Under that pressure, I can understand, but whoever was responsible for decisions that eliminated a proper tach is an idiot.

But I guess it could be that I don't understand the market at all. Maybe Chevrolet realized that in fact most people don't care about tachs and this is a neat way to both save the money and to stave off the impression of poverty stricken rock bottom cheapness that gauge clusters without tachs create, so the decision maker wasn't an idiot at all, but in fact very astute at realizing that most people don't have any use for a tach apart from the sense of activity that a tach creates in the gauge cluster, in which case, constantly changing digits would be as good as a constantly twirling needle and cheaper to boot.

So which is it? Just plain stupidity or astute economizing on the part of engineers who've figured out what the tach's true vs apparent purpose to most buyers is?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Harbir

This has got to be the dumbest tachometer I have ever seen.

So which is it? Just plain stupidity or astute economizing on the part of engineers who've figured out what the tach's true vs apparent purpose to most buyers is?

Lol. Harbir, it may actually not be that bad. I thought the civic would have the same problem but it has a better implementation. When your accelerating it skips digits in between say between 30 - 40, it shows only 30-35-40 when you accelerate hard but more digits if slower. That way you don't see continuous change of digits.

[Harbir]

digital speed is not the same as a digital tach. There is good reason that when other companies tried digital tachs, they went with segment LCDs that sweep a distance, rather than just a digits that change. There are three reasons for this.

1. RPM changes so fast that changing digits will change too rapidly to be clearly readable.

2. You need to know not just the RPM, but also the RATE of change of RPM, which you can see from the rate of movement across the face of a tach, but not from the rate of change of digits, unless its quite slow.

3. digits do not give a quick visual reference about where in the powerband you are, especially across shifts. thinking is required to place yourself and that doesn't work because the RPM changes too fast to allow you time to think it through.

There is a reason why digital tachs looks like these images, even when the speedo's look like standard digits, and why these tachs don't look the way Chevrolet has stupidly done the Sail's tach.