18th September 2009, 22:56 | #76 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara
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| 1) The premium in ex-delhi prices is around Rs. 1.22 lakh between SX4 and G3HC/ANCH. This is not a small difference at all IMHO. 2) About the SX4 interior quality, its not the best as we all know, but rattling is not found. IIRC, there is a thread on TBHP with poll and we do get an idea that the car is not as rattle prone as people mention. 3) SX4 chassis is quite sporty which is not a surprise considering that the car is based on extended swift platform ( and hence shares a lot of things in common with Swift ). Yes the car does roll, but on stock tyres, the car's tyres and chassis combo are above G3HC. Handling is one department I wanted Honda to improve and take fight with Fiesta. The stock tyres are a shortcut from Honda. 4) GC, this cannot be ignored atleast given the current road conditions. Honda must work on this. Its not that the GC is low enough, but its rather the attitude of Honda that is irritating. They have received complains from Civic owners. Now forget even working on Civic ( what they can do is launch cosmetically updated version ), they go ahead and bring in G3HC with similar issue. This attitude is not good. 5) About alloy wheels. Apart from looking good, there is one more advantage. Alloy rims are lighter, so they reduce the unsprung mass, hence improving ride quality and handling. Also its safer to add in tubeless tyres with alloys than putting tubeless tyres with steel rims. This is something Honda cannot afford to lose. Alloy rims + tyres will cost quite a bit and is absolutely necessary with car having so much power. 6) A.S and S. is something I like to figure in for any car if we consider the car as complete package. Here SX4 is better. And on maintenance cost. I think G3HC spares are expensive as compared to SX4. Another negative for G3HC. A small point is that Honda is selling City with plastic rim covers and paints the rim in black. This trend was pioneered by Hyundai through Accent. I simply hate this. This set up reduces the air flow to brakes, which is already low because of steel rims. This is pretty cheap thing to do. Honda can behave in better manner, atleast by not offering those plastic rim covers. For me as a product i.e. the complete car, G3HC is the best. But as a complete package i.e. the car + A.S & S + maintenance cost, its SX4. At the end of the day, I will still car G3HC as overpriced. They are asking too much and dont even provide better interiors and alloy wheels that we expect after paying Rs. 8+ lakh. The car being undertyred is another bad thing. EDIT : How about adding Fiesta in the comparison. This is one car that is very nice car and most of us like the car too. Last edited by aaggoswami : 18th September 2009 at 22:59. |
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18th September 2009, 23:03 | #77 | |||||
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18th September 2009, 23:19 | #78 | ||||||
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18th September 2009, 23:22 | #79 | |
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| What contradiction? In that segment, the best shoulder-space is available in Linea and we have tested it thoroughly to our satisfaction. Trust me I own a Linea and have travelled with 4 people seated at the back too. And for an average sized Indian, rear seat roofline is not a problem at all. True there are exceptions, extremely tall people may have trouble near the windows. But then people above 6 feet are not considered average Indian height. Quote:
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18th September 2009, 23:54 | #80 |
Senior - BHPian | Im still not convinced. the interiors of the ANHC are low rank. I mean the plastics are nowhere close the to the ZX that was atleast better in terms of the interiors. And the fact that Honda charges over a LAC more than its competitors for a car that has a very average engine (better than the rivals, but) and seemingly worse dynamics than the earliest iteration of the honda city. I do not find the ANHC vfm from any angle. |
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19th September 2009, 00:15 | #81 |
BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangalore
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| I had pointed out earlier in some thread that City's higher resale value compensates for that extra lac that you pay initially. All that being aside, I do not agree that the City is the best car in the segment. Breaking it down: Power: I test drove the city when it was launched, and I recently drove two Lineas. The City is more powerful, but the difference in power is NOWHERE as significant as the numbers suggest. Ride and Handling: GTO, did you miss this point? The Linea totally outclasses the City in this department. Overall Ownership Experience: Although this is subjective, but ultimately this is what matters. I am human, not an accountant/robot that I would buy a car ONLY based on figures of cost of ownership. I would never buy the ANHC, because I like cars with personality. The OHC had its own personality, the Linea has its own personality, and so does the SX4. Unfortunately, I don't see that in the ANHC (and this is personal). I just can't live with the idea that I am driving a car, the tail lamps of which may have been plagiarised from the 3-series. |
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19th September 2009, 00:28 | #82 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Trivandrum
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You cannot consider iVTEC an average engine ,at least by indian standards. What more do you expect .A car that reaches 0 - 100 in 10 seconds with a fuel efficiency that is comparable to some hatchs.I am now testing the fuel efficiency of my ANHC.Initial conclusion is that in the highway ANHC seems to have better fuel efficiency. Shall post the fuel efficiency figures in initial ownership report http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...swift-vdi.html And the car is better than NHC in almost all aspects,including suspension highway manners.ANHC is not a NHC upgrade.Its a Junior Civic. First and third photo is of our NHC | |
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19th September 2009, 00:44 | #83 |
BANNED Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bangalore
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| @GTO Good writeup. But i would like to highlight a couple of points here.. (i) The dealership & *** of Honda is kind of nightmarish - I think Maruthi has an edge here (ii) Though this is true for all non-desi brands, cars in india are priced more than they are worth and honda seems to be the one who exploits this the most - for the price i pay for an City here, i can buy an accord coupe in US. Ofcourse all cars are cheaper in US for the various reason but such price differnce is just too much. Before people start deploring this point, i know to many things contribute to the pricing & not just the Auto company itself - but still money is money, so i cant accept that fact that honda is not sold expensive here (iii) I know its your personal opinion but this is the first time i someone saying that Jap cars are better than German ones - specially growing up in the knowledge segment. Japs make good, futuristic,FE cars but i feel they are not as upto the mark as compared to the German ones - Germans make CARS - real cars, carsas they should be made, IMHO. Having said all this my next buy is a 3G City, I was waiting for the facelifted version to be launched. Now that its launched, the thing that stopped me is the nes that linea may come up with better performers - sorry am sucker for european cars anyday :-). |
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19th September 2009, 01:49 | #84 | |||||||||||||||||
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Also Civic came in because the original thread was "City gets some Civic Sense, Civic gets a new sense" in which those posts were posted. I feel they were there with reasons & not without reasons. Quote:
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Let me cite my example as a buyer when I bought a car in this segment this year: Honda with its Reliability, Performance, Space management, refinement, resale etc commands a premium & I'm & was always ready to pay a premium. Since last 6 years whenever I thought of upgrading my car,there was only Honda City in mind. Why? OHC. That was a class leading & true premium product. It gave Performance & so many premium/ luxury items as compared to its the then competitors. That has set it apart from others. Circa 2009. It was ANHC. May be a better product than OHC as pointed by many here. However, the competition has also improved as compared to what was there 6 years back. SX4 & Linea offers much more features/ equipments. Obviously I want those features. Why not? I'm not looking at entry-level sedan, am I? And they're available in the market & not at the highest cost. Alloys Auto Climate Control A Proper CD Player (with USB Port) Rear AC vents (not in SX4) Front & Rear Fog Lamps (was available in Accord/ Civic but not in ANHC) Blue & Me with voice commands for Music Player & Mobile (not in SX4) Plus few Little thingies which are available in some C+ or D segment cars Chrome Handles & Chrome Strips (was available in Civic / Accord but not in ANHC) Full-fledge MID showing Instant FE, safety features like door open warning, seat belt warning, speed warning etc etc etc Rear Sunshade I thought I was ready to pay a premium of Rs. 1.25 Lacs for ANHC. However, ANHC which was stripped off the above equipments was already higher priced to the tune of Rs. 1.25-1.50 Lacs. Since these equipments are available in a car in the market, I wanted it. Why should I not want it after spending 8-9 lacs on a car & when its available in the market? So, calculations start on cost of ANHC with all these (wherever available OEM & if not then aftermarket). With all these the difference in price i.e. premium was coming to over-2.5 Lacs. Naah. What do I lose? Reliability, Performance, Resale. Damn Reliability. Most modern cars today are reliable & as mentioned earlier the incremental %age probability may come quite lower & still its only a "probability" (my humble Ikon reliability example was with me on back of my mind). If I were to visit service station 6 times a year for 2-3 hours spent each time or lets say in worst case scenario 10 days in a year, balance 355 days I can still enjoy all above & a bonus class-leading Ride & Handling ability & HPS Steering with better feedback. These are strictly my views when I bought the car. However, it seems there are almost 50% customers in this segment who buys SX4/ Verna/ Fiesta/ Linea & views of some of them may be conciding with my views. What is interesting to know is - are the no. of such customers going to increase because of increased competition in the segment & availability of good reliable competitive products in this segment also like Civic & Accord segments. The probability seems less but not entirely rulled out. With this, I rest my case here. | |||||||||||||||||
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19th September 2009, 02:00 | #85 |
Senior - BHPian | i mean, the interiors are low rent for a 10 lac rupee car. And the engine may be powerful, but the way it delivers it is not convincing. its a grouse posted by a lot of ANHC owners. To each his own, though |
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19th September 2009, 06:06 | #86 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
i live in vadodara, it has no sales and service for linea. the nearest service station is 120 kms far in Ahmadabad. At this point of time, features don't play an important role while deciding. you say i have to take risk with Fiat. but what if something goes wrong with the car. Where am i suppose to go? tow it 120 kms to amd to get the problem solved? i have been following linea's ownership threads and almost all owners have complained about quality niggles with part falling off. now if this thing happens to me after i buy one, what to do? in that respect, city becomes a strong contender as it has sales and service in vadodara itself. by shelling out 1 lakh more, i can get some piece of mind that i would be adequately backed up with service in case something goes wrong, but than, i also have confidence in Honda's product that i atleast won't face any niggles as reported in ownership threads here. i don't need alloys or acc as rule of thumb, but i do need piece of mind as a rule of thumb. thats where Honda scores. as for looks, i feel anhc and linea are at par, strictly imho. as for features, i give more importance to security features and comfort compared to some blue&me or acc. on a side note, if at all Fiat opens up a sales and service in Vadodara, i would indeed give a second look at linea. as of now i am more tilted towards anhc, and i feel this thread as come up at right moment for me to analyze further about my needs. @GTO, hats off to you for providing detailed analysis. Last edited by chevelle : 19th September 2009 at 06:08. | |
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19th September 2009, 08:22 | #87 | |||
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19th September 2009, 09:42 | #88 | ||||||||
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Also peace of mind & less visits to service station are important, then there is an SX4, may be Verna too which are relatively alright in these parameters. One should be open to weigh all options. I mentioned certain things because thats MY preference. Quote:
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Not being able to introduce a Diesel car in India which has a large diesel car market can be considered as a weakness by some. On the other hand, it could also be termed as planned strategy so as not to spread itself too thin over large no. of variants. Quote:
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MID showing & gives warning if any of the door or boot open - Isn't it a Safety feature? Hell, my 7-yr old daughter who always sits in front seat thrice did not close the door properly & the warning has prevented any potential mishap. Thank god. Is not Seat Belt warning buzzer a safety feature? Is not Speed warning buzzer a safety feature? Is not MID warning for failure of any of the lights (head/tail/side) a safety feature? Is not Follow me Home lights a safety & conveneince feature? Does not thick heavy body sheets translate into safer than lighter weight sheets? Hell, I guess Heavy body /sheets does not come without a cost - it impacts FE & vehicle-pull at lower speeds. But it adds to safety, Stability, and may be Ride & Handling to an extent. May be I've gone too far. But these are imp little safety items exactly the same way you observed A-pillar spot. All these are apart from the usual safety features which almost everyone gives in the segment (except verna which comes without airbags) Last edited by VahanPujari : 19th September 2009 at 09:45. | ||||||||
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19th September 2009, 10:47 | #89 | ||||||
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Tell me, Finneyp, what then is value priced? The SX4, yes we will both agree. But it has been often demonstrated how the Honda City works out cheaper to own than the Verna & the Linea. Substantially so. | ||||||
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19th September 2009, 10:55 | #90 |
Senior - BHPian | And what about the Fiesta? Why not speak of it here? It drives better, and (according to me) has better quality interiors. They are very cramped, compared to the ANHC but the car costs a whole 2-2.5 lacs cheaper than the ANHC and offers similar specifications, and maybe, a better engine (albeit with lesser power but seemingly better torque). It's as refined as the ANHC too. Only trouble is, its a 4 year old design and the newer age features such as steering mounted controls etc are missing from it! |
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