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Originally Posted by GTO Correct. Yet in India, the largest brand loyalty comes from Honda, Toyota, Maruti & Hyundai. There is clearly a distinct trend here, based on actual ownership experiences. For the record, for all of the Ford Ikon's supposed reliability, they have poor customer loyalty. |
Hope we have some stats to go with this, am not very convinced from my experience, thats all i meant.
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Originally Posted by GTO Octavia diesels? I wouldn't be surprised. |
Yes, mallu land brother.
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Originally Posted by GTO Both surprising. See, that's exactly what I mean. Giving one or two experiences here & there counts for peanuts. |
Its not one or two especially in Hyundai's case, since my friends even formed a small group of disgruntled owners and got some awesome deals. But these things rarely get reported, same as the failures in the first place. As for the cars, most of them get repaired and pop up in 2nd hand market in pristine conditon
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Originally Posted by GTO Two of the cars are Korean while the last is Japanese. Koreans do take the fight to the Japs, in fact Hyundai is credited with keeping Honyota prices in check worldwide. |
Design philosophy rather the original designs matters, more than the manufacturer being Korean, Chinese or Japanese
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Originally Posted by GTO I disagree. A customer who has paid with his own money for your product will ONLY return if he has been satisfied with the long-term ownership experience. |
100% in agreement, but show me the numbers wrt loyality? Maybe am wrong.
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Originally Posted by GTO Honda's dealerships are strictly average overall, yet their products continue to sell. Thus, you certainly cannot credit their success to the competence of their dealers. Believe you me, one of the reasons I chose a Lancer over a City in 2000 was because of Ichibaan Honda's shoddy management. Of course, it's a different thing that the Vtec lured me back, strangely, to the same dealership 4 years later |
On the contrary Whitefield in BLR was one of the best in first half of this decade, one of the reason why we havent shifted for the last 8 years plus. Compared to MUL and Ford, their service WAS way better! This i have tasted myself. One of the reasons lots of IT guys started running to Honda was the dealership experience, i have experienced it. Cashless service arrangements, i have availed it, forget Credit cards, this just required a signature.
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Originally Posted by GTO Spot on! The sub 10 lakh segment is all about VFM & price sensitivity. Just the fact that the ANHC is a sales leader says a lot of its VFM factor relative to the competition. I mean, this is the mass market talking with their own money. Literally putting their money where their mouth is. Except for the SX4, the Verna petrol & Linea petrols will never match the ANHC in overall cost of ownership. Starting with their resale. |
There you go again, i still think its more to do with the perceived Premium Image Aura and smart marketing. 50% Why others are surviving is because of this premium price tag!
People are putting their money for the premium status most of the time, being my point of contention.
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Originally Posted by GTO It's a free market out there so lets change our style of thinking. NO ONE is forcing anyone to buy the Honda City @ 8.5 lakhs ex-showroom. If you think its overpriced, don't buy it. However, just the fact that the mass market seems to disagree with the ANHC's lack of value speaks volumes? |
Lets wait and watch the charts for another 4 months please. New exciting product with premium aura will sell automaticaly for couple of months atleast, wont it?
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Originally Posted by GTO Again Jaggu, what is that 1 lakh premium getting you |
In my case i didnt have to go for a car loan, i avoided EMI, car was purchased with full cash payment. Though i could have taken an EMI and gone till 8-9 lakhs very comfortably.
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Originally Posted by GTO 1. That 1 lakh will be recovered at the time of resale, especially with the Verna & Linea?
2. WAY better performance, and the best engine technology?
3. The best fuel efficiency? |
1) Resale if you are very smart, otherwise these days markets are not that gentle on the value of cars, that include Honda's, partly thanks to threads on bargaining in TBHP
2) Yup, but does it really translate to 1 lakh rs, especially if i plan to use the car for 3 years/30k kms?
3) How many kms more per liter? Is it 2 or 5 kmpl? Real life how much of difference does it make, if i get 11 vs 12 kmpl. How many of these users can detect if there is a change? Well i for one never understood the big funda even when i was using a City, Esteem and iKON at the same time. For me 500 Rs lasted for a week in all 3 cars.
Ok now that didn't mean diesel price difference and better FE doesn't matter!
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Originally Posted by GTO 5. Best-in-class reliability. Sure, we can debate that the other cars will be reliable, but the Honda will overall be that much more. |
Hmph same feelings here but wrt other cars in the poll, nothing to harp about H. I was watching different cars go by in front of office, and almost 99% of them looked well kept and running well. So unless there is major tragedy from a brand or model, for a brand new car, first 2 years or 25-30k kms will not really matter, even with zero preventive maintenance, Just another theory from my side.
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Originally Posted by GTO Jaggu, do you feel that the Fortuner is overpriced as well? |
Lil bit especially due to the front fascia (not interiors!)
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Originally Posted by GTO Or the Altis, some variants of which can get you a larger more comfortable Hyundai Sonata? |
Hmm again ill take Thailand prices as fair enough deal, especially since this one is assembled here locally.
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Originally Posted by GTO Or the Swift diesel, which is a lakh more expensive than the larger better riding Indica? After all, the Swift diesel isn't exactly the blemish-free car is it? |
You must be kidding comparing Indica to Swift diesel?! Anyways i felt the car should have been priced 25-50k INR less when it was launched, but then again like Honda, this engine is an Award winning, cutting edge tech to pay the premium lol
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Originally Posted by GTO How about the Innova which costs 2.xx lakhs more than the Xylo, an MUV that matches the Toyota in space & beats it in power & well as equipment level. |
Definite YES, but what to do, they are very good at selling these overpriced specimens. Why do you think we lapped up so many 1000's of Qualis for years at that ridiculous price??? A car with good engine and bare bone mechanicals??
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Originally Posted by GTO Not so, Jaggu. Even in the States, the largest car market, Honyotas command a premium for their cars. Hyundai tries to beat them with the cheaper Sonata + better features for a lower price. |
Dont have real figures dear, but am saying they are cheaper compared to other euro and american brands??
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Originally Posted by GTO Further, when we speak of volumes, why single out Honda? Did the Swift prices come down with selling 15,000 cars a month of the same platform (Swift + Dzire)? |
Ayooo saaarr, when did i single out Honda?? They are making too much profit for my taste thats all. Year on year, model on model and like fools we fall for the aura.
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Originally Posted by GTO Actually, I ask the same question to all those who feel that the Honda City is overpriced.
Take the Xylo's example. 2.0 lakhs can result in free fuel for 5 years. Plus, its got the aircraft-type lounge seats, is extremely spacious, Mahindra's reliability is proven and the performance can leave an Innova for dead. The difference in handling is about the difference between the Verna & the ANHC. Like most Mahindra diesels, the Xylo will probably fetch respectable resale value as well.
In consideration of this, and the fact that we've had a 12 lakh Innova without climate control for 5 years, how come no one thinks that the Innova is overpriced? |
I do and so do others, who have bought sedans, sometimes even compromising their desire for an MUV. But what to do? raise mass movement against unfair trade practice, consumer rights? Hard fact thats the way business are run, market accepts it they will flourish without you even noticing it. Has been like this for centuries right?
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Originally Posted by GTO It is the MARKET - both new & used - that decides which product provides VFM. The Honda City is not only the best-seller when new, but commands good resale as well. |
So does MUL and so does Hyundai in south India. Even diesel Skoda's do. Poor GM cars are the ones that generally get butchered.
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Originally Posted by Mevtec You are right in saying that at the end of the day its the budget which narrows down ones choices. But if we value safely,comfort,reliablity,bulit quality and peace of mind more than the VFM factor ANHC is the best sedan under 10 lakhs. |
To each their own, i dispute the best sedan part only sir. Again you must be kidding while comparing a Tata product to a Jap.
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Originally Posted by Mevtec Extending the budjet by one lakh dosen't rise the EMI much. |
Sometime it does, like when you want to avoid EMI or like when you already have a Home EMI and would want to keep EMI's to the minimum. I have "seen" people go through this dilemma in life.
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Originally Posted by Mevtec I brought ANHC because of the previous experience with our NHC.NHC was not perfect .Lot of things like suspension,power and gadjets provided had scope for improvement.But it met all our requrements without any fuss.The service back up of Peninsular Honda,Cochin is great. |
GTO you might want to take a look here, this is what i wanted to convey in the first place. Reliability is a relative word at the end of the day.
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Originally Posted by Mevtec But the strange thing I face is that the MASS in our part of the state is horrible.Arrogant dealers and irresponsible service personel. |
Dont worry MUL is giving good fight to Skoda here in BLR also, its just that some relations at SA level help at the end of the day.
Ps: I think both the sides are not going to change their stance. Maybe both are right with their views, maybe one is. But for the debate sake i would like to now sit back and read the entertaining thread by the fan boys from either side. Soooo
Final sign off, taaaaa! Final EDIT: Important question
How many of the TBHP members are completely honest and record all the finer details of their vehicle failure incident on the forum?
From my side:
iKON
- Failed injector at 10k kms, car was not used for 6 months plus
- Corrosion of tail pipe during the same period, due to weekly wash and storage soon after without running
- Failed rear wheel bearing soon after, water damage again
- Fuel canister issue, really dont know if its due to non usage or muck that got in to the exhaust breather tube or a real failure
City
- Failed window winding units, 1 at 5k kms 2nd one at 25k kms
- Failed AC compressor at 35k kms
- Rattles galore inspite of regulary attending to the issue
Crv
- Wheel alignment issue, especially at rear. Sorted out by doing wheel alignment at independent specialist
- Fuel level unit replaced at 30k kms, had to fight for warranty replacement
- Fuel tank replaced at 40 k kms warranty recall
- Premature replacement of front brake disc due to judder, maybe a dealership excess
Swift D
- Ignition switch loose contact, switching ON interior light on Day 1, became OK on its own
- Frequent fuse blow up, replaced radiator fan on warranty