[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by amtak

It looks good. All it needs is a decent engine, some decent marketing (banners, hoardings), some good interiors and voila, PAL is back!

It also deserves a price cut. At this price I can't figure out why any body will ignore products from Maruti/Hyundai/Fiat/Ford and go for this dated machine from a manufacturer which does not really have a great past record to boast off.

Its not really spacious. So why not a modern Hatch? And if space is the priority, why not EECO? That will leave enough dough for things like Power windows, better foot wear, upholstery and a LPG kit to make up for the lack of Diesel motor.
Upwards of 1.5 lakhs can still be saved after souping up the EECO instead of going for the RIO.



Regards.

[pgsagar]

Saw a red one on road today. Looked better in real than in pics. Exterior shape and dimensions were very sporty. Looks very attractive. Presently there is nothing like it on Indian roads. But people won't trust a small manufacturer like PAL. Had the car come with a Maruti, Tata or Hyundai badge, people would have queued up to buy this.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

But people won't trust a small manufacturer like PAL. Had the car come with a Maruti, Tata or Hyundai badge, people would have queued up to buy this.

What kind of an observation is this? Baleno was a good car. From Maruti. No one bought it. Estilo is a not so good car, who buys it?
Emberra, Elantra and Tucson were good cars from Hyundai (better than Rio at least). No one bought it.
Verna Petrol is a not so good car from Hyundai. No one bought it.
Initial batches of Indica were flawed. No one bought it. Indigo Marina was a good Estate at a great price, still no one bought it.


Still think that BUYER is ignorant enough to buy a car just by the brand name?

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

What kind of an observation is this? Baleno was a good car. From Maruti. No one bought it. Estilo is a not so good car, who buys it?

Not sure about Baleno, but there are 4~6k people buying Estilo every month!! and another 3~3.5k take home a brand new Astar .

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by HammerHead

Not sure about Baleno, but there are 4~6k people buying Estilo every month!! and another 3~3.5k take home a brand new Astar .

Is that so?

Sorry then, I'll eat my own words!!

Still, what I meant was that Brand Image cant sell a bad vehicle. And of course why would anyone trust PAL? They do not have a great past record and the after sales are a suspect.

IMO, Rio would not had done much better had it been from any manufacturer. If anything, it would had been a blemish on the images of these established brands some one was talking about.

Regards.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Still, what I meant was that Brand Image cant sell a bad vehicle. And of course why would anyone trust PAL? They do not have a great past record and the after sales are a suspect.

True. Also consider the reverse case. It is very hard to overcome bad brand image with fantastic vehicles. Ask Fiat.

Funnily enough, this got mentioned in a PAL thread, who are single handedly responsible for Fiat's troubles in India.

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Still, what I meant was that Brand Image cant sell a bad vehicle.

Depends what one means by a 'bad vehicle'. For me it will be vehicles attributes which makes it good or bad and not the 'brand' attributes. Better brand attributes can make it a better package but not necessarily a better 'vehicle/Product'.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

But people won't trust a small manufacturer like PAL. Had the car come with a Maruti, Tata or Hyundai badge, people would have queued up to buy this.

You want potential buyers to trust a brand that has duped its customers on several occasions, and has a long list of criminal cases lodged against itself? If Maruti, Hyundai & Tata sell cars on brand value, they deserve it.

Or do you want the market to overlook worldclass 6 lakh rupee hatchbacks like the i20, Figo, Polo and Punto for a hand-me-down Chinese SUV wannabe that's running a 20 year old engine, and is built of suspect-quality parts?

Have you seen the Premier Rio in person before commenting? I've had a close look and can confidently say that the vehicle is absolute rubbish.

Originally Posted by Amartya

Funnily enough, this got mentioned in a PAL thread, who are single handedly responsible for Fiat's troubles in India.

That's not true at all. By the time that the Palio was launched, Fiat had majority ownership of the Indian operations (vis a vis PAL). Majority ownership = Decision making authority. Not too many are aware of this, but the Palio met with resounding success upon its launch. Fact is, over the initial months, it consistently managed sales of 3000 - 3500 units (again, PER MONTH). 3,000 cars per month at a time when the market was small is equivalent to 10,000 - 15,000 cars today. That clearly indicates that the market gave Fiat a chance at a time that it had complete control of its Indian operations. Also, lets not forget that the Palio was rewarded with initial success DESPITE the Uno debacle. Fiat's decision making skills (or lack or) and poor management led to its decline in India. The Palio was an initial hit, murdered eventually only by Fiat.

Therefore, its not PAL, but Fiat to blame for the current state of its brand in India.

[joshguy]

Originally Posted by GTO

You want potential buyers to trust a brand that has duped its customers on several occasions, and has a long list of criminal cases lodged against itself? If Maruti, Hyundai & Tata sell cars on brand value, they deserve it.

Or do you want the market to overlook worldclass 6 lakh rupee hatchbacks like the i20, Figo, Polo and Punto for a hand-me-down Chinese SUV wannabe that's running a 20 year old engine, and is built of suspect-quality parts?

Have you seen the Premier Rio in person before commenting? I've had a close look and can confidently say that the vehicle is absolute rubbish.


.

Yes i go with GTO

I had a look at it some months ago,i looks as if it was built and stocked to sell after 20 years as classic car

Dated Interiors ,Awful looks ,it has a grandpa old Good engine, now there are better engines

there are no takers for it even in the rural market(given the lowest price).They would rather buy a sumo,or a bolero 2nd had for it

[ashutoshb]

Any news on the MJD implant guys?

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by GTO

You want potential buyers to trust a brand that has duped its customers on several occasions, and has a long list of criminal cases lodged against itself? If Maruti, Hyundai & Tata sell cars on brand value, they deserve it.

Or do you want the market to overlook worldclass 6 lakh rupee hatchbacks like the i20, Figo, Polo and Punto for a hand-me-down Chinese SUV wannabe that's running a 20 year old engine, and is built of suspect-quality parts?

Have you seen the Premier Rio in person before commenting? I've had a close look and can confidently say that the vehicle is absolute rubbish.



That's not true at all. By the time that the Palio was launched,

Therefore, its not PAL, but Fiat to blame for the current state of its brand in India.

+1.

GTO's post said all that I had in my mind and yeah I could not had said it better.

Originally Posted by HammerHead

Depends what one means by a 'bad vehicle'. For me it will be vehicles attributes which makes it good or bad and not the 'brand' attributes. Better brand attributes can make it a better package but not necessarily a better 'vehicle/Product'.

True. No denying that its the attributes that make a vehicle good or bad.

But isn't it the PACKAGE that we buy? A good car can turn out to be a disaster for its manufacture if the package is not good.
Skoda cars are good. Their Brand Image is good. Contrary to European marts Skoda badge has lots of snob value going for it.

BUT and a big but at that, will I buy their car when I know that many Skoda dealers indulge in malpractices (Many threads on TBHP plus I know a few friends who have been cheated in past) ?? No maybe I wont.
Similarly FIAT makes great cars. But with all those horror stories about Fiat doing rounds, its only after TATA took over Fiat's sales and service and some improvement in their brand image that am finally thinking of buying a Fiat car.


So coming back to the topic, RIO is not at all a great car. Its dated and not exactly VFM.
Its legroom and stuff is similar to most hatchbacks, its performance is nothing to write about and apart from a bit more sheet metal than hatchback for same money, there is nothing that is particularly enticing.

STILL, I would had not downplayed it had PAL was a new entrant instead of being a manufacturer with a Past like that.

Bottom line is RIO IS NOT A GREAT VEHICLE AND BEING FROM PAL ITS NOT A GREAT PACKAGE AS WELL.

Regards.

[pgsagar]

GTO and YC Baleno! I got earfull from you guys. Was my post so offensive? GTO, you are the bossman. What can I say? So, no more comments from my side.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

GTO and YC Baleno! I got earfull from you guys. Was my post so offensive? GTO, you are the bossman. What can I say? So, no more comments from my side.

OFF TOPIC::

Whooops!! Your post wasn't offensive at all. You do have some points. Just that I felt differently. No offense meant.

And your comments are necessary. Comments do make for an interesting debate. And debates often lead us to think a bit differently if and a big IF at that, we are convinced from views of others.

Its just that I am not convinced with your posts on brand image.
But really nothing personal.


Regards.

[pgsagar]

Thanx YC Baleno for those kind words! I did feel a little chided. Anyway, thanx for clearing things up.

[trrk]

Hi,

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Its legroom and stuff is similar to most hatchbacks, its performance is nothing to write about and apart from a bit more sheet metal than hatchback for same money, there is nothing that is particularly enticing.

I don't go much with plastics and the stuff and go with utility and the like. A tall, compact SUV would have been nice to go along with my Manza and the Peugeot engine by itself was not a dampener (and PAL either - happy times with 1100s, Presidents, Padminis, Safari and the Uno).

I checked out the Rio and did like what I saw from the outside. The space inside was appreciable only in the boot area. Even in the most cramped hatchback, you have ample space in the front. In the Rio even that was limited (and I am 178cms tall) and with the front seat at its rear most, I barely managed to fit behind the driver. Going iany distance in that position would be seriously detrimental to health.

That boot space could be halved to increase the passenger space to generous level (I don't know whether it can be done) and with sensible pricing could be a decent town car (at least for me)!

I did click some snaps, but, can't trace it now.