[xingamazon]

Guys,
I bumped into this thread looking for some good discussion, but all I am seeing is some good mudslinging.
Both cars are good in their own way, I dont think the majority of the discussion in this thread are matured enough. I am definitely out of this thread. for heaven's sake people got to respect fellow TBHPian's views stop arguing for everything.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Amartya, I need a favor from you and all other guys here. Can you tell me which parts in a nano are adhesive'd toghether? I am not able to find that detail here... please. Thx in adv.

Awaiting reply...

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

For one, Can you take the Nano to the expressway?

Yes, nano can putter along at 90~ for 5 hours long and more.

(Now, please don't talk about Yeti and NC 's trip, that's an exception)

Well, in a country of 1B - TBHP (40K) is an exception. Once nano hits the roads, all the people who will own a nano - will take it out on the roads all over the country.

I would feel more comfortable in the 800 than the Nano, doing triple digit speeds. The Nano is terribly unstable, when compared to the 800, due to it's shorter wheelbase and height.

Totally agree, unstability not due to WB/Hgt, its due to LACK of any dead weight in the front and compounding it with cycle tyres. A experiment is coming up in my nano in due course to address this issue. Lets see...

Another thing, there is no glove-box, the rear bench is uncomfortable. Add to it, the not-so-easily accessible boot.

Glove box - AGREE (Cant even keep loose coins lying around safely).
Rear Bench - DISAGREE - if you are in bangy, i will give you a 30min trial to reassure you how comfy the rear is (High seating position takes out a lot of travel fatigue).
Boot - Tell me about it!!! PAIN in !!!

Originally Posted by Grafin

It is a well established fact that the Nano is a city car and by far it hasn't been proved to be that bad on the highways.

Thanks

Stick to the speed limit and it would serve the purpose decently.

GOLDEN WORDS - if a Honda City like sedan owner's view - "How can these poor people in a 'Swift/Punto' travel, sheesh, they need to upgrade". From a Hatch goer "Sheesh, look at these 800/Alto goers - Com'n India - buy better cars", from all of the above @ a nano "hehe no comments"...

The lack of glove box and a decent boot is a really a bad disadvantage i admit.

Agree

The rear seats dint feel that uncomfortable to me, and if it is, it can be taken care of quite easily without burning a hole in your pocket.

Tell me what are you thinking... I got some thoughts too...

Originally Posted by longhorn

Another reason is the difference in tyre sizes between the front and the rear. I don't know which wise guy thought of that idea, but I believe that is taking cost cutting to a new extent, and more importantly, a compromise on safety which is uncalled for.

Also to showcase this car with lot of 'steering ease' with light tyres in the front - crappy idea I say!! High speeds - sheesh, major drift all over.

Originally Posted by akshay4587

For those who doubt Nano's Capability.
PicCourtesy -SanjayM@Bcmtouring.com.
Nano Himalayan Expedition - Page 7 - India Travel Forum, BCMTouring

Ah, I never did - but this is giving me ideas, you know...

Originally Posted by MCR

I have voted for Nano considering the ease of driving around in the city and the attention it gets on the roads.

Considering the highway capability of Nano, the threads by Sam kapasi and svsanthosh are good examples.

Thanks - you may NOT be surprised the 'attention' is akin to this thread. Both good and 'you know, the other kind'. People smile, wave, shout out, follow in bikes, FEW LAUGH, tease, even offer a rupee (In alms) to me (it happened)...

Well, I travel anyway I want, the journey is important, not the ride, Right?

Originally Posted by Arkin evoisrevo

The back seat might look like a bench, but in reality the legroom and comfort offered by them are way better than the M800's. In fact, ACI had compared it with that of a C-class!!!

Really? "Look ma, Dont frown I downgraded you from a Indigo to a nano - in fact you got upgraded to a Merc class bench"

Originally Posted by vinaydas

I highly doubt any Tata can withstand the test
of time as the japs do.

Only time will tell, but TATAs have a bad reputation for how fast they age!!

Highway driving speaking practically is not feasible on the nano for
1) Low top speed/cruising ability

I Agree, but 80-90 is OK for Indian type roads, right? But I can vouch for a 350Km Trip with little effort.

2) limited range(do not make assumptions such as we can have multiple fuel fillings in one trip as take me for example , who does a lot of night driving and finding Bunks at 1am in the morning is an issue. So i generally Topup around 9 pm at my source and can easily reach my Destination in a full tank)

With 22~ Liters filled to the BRIM - and a 20+ FE (Easily), you get a 400Km range, Of course safer to re-fill at 300Km area. Limited range is half true in a nano, would have loved to have a 500Km (400Km refill) Range.

3)safety well, 800 also loses up on this a bit.

Thanks

4) Highways=long distance travel=Luggage and the only luggage you can carry in the Nano is your wallet.

....This PIC was from our 1st trip, after getting to know the car more, the recent chennai trip was loaded with more luggage (arranged a bit more Consciously.....

5) service : Tata after sales is a joke.

Not mine, 3 years with them, putting your foot down, showing assertiveness, no-nonsense talking - will get the job done

So conclusion
6)Reliability : Having a blown fuse at 2pm in the night in Middle of Bandipur forest(i know its closed during the night so speaking hypothetically) is not something i can live with. But few years down the line with all the Customer R&D (which is usually what tata does, leaving the testing phase to the first batch of customers) i think this may be solved.

Yes - reliability is a BIG ? - In my indigo days, went for a clutch adjusement, came back in a town bus due to a BLOWN ECU!!!

7) Exhaust Note, as mentioned by few the exhaust note on the Nano can be compared to an Auto which is highly degrading, where as the 800 , I have seen 800's with FFE setups which can put some 50 + lac car's exhaust notes to shame

yeah, but you get to live with the funny sound due to the twin pot setup

Nano is a City Car for your small visits to the work place, Mall ,Theaters etc. 800 is a Far better family car who have to do a Highway trips etc.

Have you done a 500+KM trip in a 800's rear bench?

Originally Posted by Amartya

Correct. In fact the Nano has actually been designed for the city, I do not think it is wise to drive up mountains at great height. With rarefied air, the power is sure to drop as well.

Ooty trip was a Breeze, except for the masinagudi roads (where even sedans were in 2nd gears, nano puttered away in 1st... Once up on the ranges, it showed no issues at all. All 3 days in 3rd-4th gears. I was surprised to see many local's who got nano's there... But agree the 'city usage' term, its upto the owner to use/abuse any vehicle to his needs...

I was thinking about this some more and I would now say that the Nano is much better as a city car (more space, smaller turning radius, more effective A/C judging by the reports) than the 800 and on the other hand, the 800 wins on the highway. A 800 cruising at 90kmph will be much more relaxed and unstressed than the Nano at that speed (this is speculation but with solid grounds to do so, because of the Nano's 105kmph top speed).

I would end up agreeing, I would be happier in a drivers seat of a 800 doing 90 on the highway, but overall space...

Originally Posted by xingamazon

I bumped into this thread looking for some good discussion....

Aare - life isnt a bed of roses all day along, expect a heated argument among boyz, end of day boyz will be boyz right?

[Grafin]

I dont think the Nano rear seats are bad.

If one does feel its not, get the upholstery done and nice seat covers to go with it.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Amartya

A 800 cruising at 90kmph will be much more relaxed and unstressed than the Nano at that speed (this is speculation but with solid grounds to do so, because of the Nano's 105kmph top speed).

I dont really subscribe much to this city car vs highway car concept, when applied to India. If the Nano or M800 were my only car, if the need came by, I would surely use them on the highways, albeit responsibly knowing what they can or cannot do. Infact I have done more highway runs (continous 16hr 800km Kerala-Chennai) on the M800 than even on my Baleno.

Yesterday on our way to the racing track to see the Saloon races, there was this Nano in front of us. I was driving at a constant speed behind it, observing the car.


Given the constant distance between us, I gauged that he was cruising at 80kmph (as on my speedo). He would switch lanes (when stuck behind trucks) and get back to fast lane etc. I did not really see anything dangerous in the road behaviour of the car. The only odd thing I felt was the exposed rear (for air-cooling ?).

Originally Posted by svsantosh

you may NOT be surprised the 'attention' is akin to this thread. Both good and 'you know, the other kind'. People smile, wave, shout out, follow in bikes, FEW LAUGH, tease, even offer a rupee (In alms) to me (it happened)

You serious ? Man, that is atrocious. And WTH were they riding/driving when they did this ? I am guessing some silly 100cc bike.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Aare - life isnt a bed of roses all day along, expect a heated argument among boyz, end of day boyz will be boyz right?

You are a true sport, man. Have to give it to ya.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

What reckless statement did anyone make here ? Please enlighten us.

Examples here:

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I have experience of driving at over 200kph on German roads with a passat and 800 was not handling any different at that speed.(but the braking confidence is obviously low)

Nano, 800, alto are cheap cars. Each of them have merits/demerits over the other. But some people talk up 800 as if it is a 5 series(passat here).

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

I think a car has to be a car and not a piece that is bonded with industrial adhesive.

Does any one know what parts were joined using adhesives? With out knowing this is it wise to talk about adhesives use in Nano? Doesnot it sound one sided to say no Nano because it uses adhesives.

Originally Posted by vc.vinay

NANO an illusion on papers backed by baseless claims from TATA, Maruti 800 a reality that changed the indian automotive seen

Another Mr. Suzuki here.

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

If only nano was 30-40k cheaper than its current price then it would have be excellent VFM.

Yes. In my dreams.

Originally Posted by Hashim

The mentality part [not my opinion but general public] -
One who owns a 800 - Oh they have a car!
One who owns Nano - Poor chap

None of the owner reports say so. Well, this is one good marketing technique for Maruti. Call every one driving a Nano a slumdog and no one will buy it. Then what about a M800 owner, a millionaire?

Originally Posted by Hashim

Small and thin wheels will definitely not provide a good braking and road grip, hence not safe.

Compared to what? Compared to a hummer Yes. But not M800.

This is how all nano threads are. More fiction than facts.
How many Nano/M800 buyers consider top speed as their buying point.

If these people are not answered they will go on and on. Thats why I replied with some long posts(only to answer some long posts) on this thread.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

You serious ? Man, that is atrocious. And WTH were they riding/driving when they did this ? I am guessing some silly 100cc bike

Don't want to demean the kids - but it was 2 (slum) kids (10ish age) on a rickety bi-cycle in a crowded road of bangy... they came next to my side and said in Tamil (seeing my TN regn) - "Anna, ooru ruba tarren, paavam ooru laksham vandi ottureengale" --- (Elder Brother, I will give you 1 rupee, pity to see you drive a 1lac car).

Originally Posted by airbender

Does any one know what parts were joined using adhesives? With out knowing this is it wise to talk about adhesives use in Nano? Does not it sound one sided to say no Nano because it uses adhesives.

yeah, I am awaiting the response to this too. I have owned 4 diff cars and 10 diff bikes over the last 11 years and I know what a welding joint is...!! I havent yet seen anything "GLUED" in a nano, and I even went beneath, under, over - everywhere over a nano - its a properly welded car. Except its made of a very thin gauge steel compared to better cars (Read - NOT 800 )

[ownerofazkaban]

My perspective as a owner of both (family owned)
All comparatives are with 5 Speed 800 vs Nano Lx and trying to keep it non- technical/specy.
You decide whether a particular point is +ve or -Ve for you.

NANO:
1. Its not cheap, Nano Lx costs 2,13,000+ On Road in B'lore
2. Nano is cheaper by 25k compared to 800 features.
3. Very Good A/C, the high torque is great for city drive.
4. head lamps with best beam focus, spread, lumen o/ps.
5. Very easy ingress/egress. Upright seating best for city driving.
6. typical Auto noise from rear

800 (5 Speed)
1. Best highway/high speed cruising, breaking.
2. Comparatively cramped, small, non-airy
3. Steering better than Nano
4. A/C is no compitition for Nano.
5. Better space due to hatch door and folding seats, The configuration that is used while shifting homes, out of city travel.

For a small family that travels out of Town - 800.
However in City Nano is many many times better, so Buy Nano and take the bus while going out of town.

I refrain from voting.

[Hashim]

We are just comparing two cars here don't know why some people take it personally when something is said against nano.

Originally Posted by airbender

None of the owner reports say so. Well, this is one good marketing technique for Maruti. Call every one driving a Nano a slumdog and no one will buy it. Then what about a M800 owner, a millionaire?

I think you forgot to read svsantosh post, I feel those kids were really in naughty mood but what they did was too much. They need a lesson on manners for sure. People can buy a "new like" condition second hand hatch back for the price of nano and ride in pride (because others don't know its second hand) but another person spending same amount on nano (because of 1L car thing) does not get same respect, Bad I know but its like this only.

Originally Posted by airbender

Compared to what? Compared to a hummer Yes. But not M800.

This is how all nano threads are. More fiction than facts.
How many Nano/M800 buyers consider top speed as their buying point.

If these people are not answered they will go on and on. Thats why I replied with some long posts(only to answer some long posts) on this thread.

I already posted before talking of speed, modification, fabrication and all is useless because there are VFM cars and not designed for high speed. VFM buyer may not want the triple digit high speed but sure want practicality, longer life of engine, reliability.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I dont really subscribe much to this city car vs highway car concept, when applied to India. If the Nano or M800 were my only car, if the need came by, I would surely use them on the highways, albeit responsibly knowing what they can or cannot do. Infact I have done more highway runs (continous 16hr 800km Kerala-Chennai) on the M800 than even on my Baleno.

Yes, I completely agree with you, but the point I was trying to make was slightly different. I didn't mean to say that the Nano was not meant to be taken on to the highway, but rather, it was more at home in the city. So a prospective buyer who would drive in the city for 85-90% of the time, should be happy with the Nano. If however, the percentage of highway miles logged is predicted to be much higher, then it makes sense to think about the 800.

I think we are both saying the same thing, in slightly different ways .

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by airbender

Examples here:



Nano, 800, alto are cheap cars. Each of them have merits/demerits over the other. But some people talk up 800 as if it is a 5 series(passat here).


Does any one know what parts were joined using adhesives? With out knowing this is it wise to talk about adhesives use in Nano? Doesnot it sound one sided to say no Nano because it uses adhesives.




Another Mr. Suzuki here.



Yes. In my dreams.




None of the owner reports say so. Well, this is one good marketing technique for Maruti. Call every one driving a Nano a slumdog and no one will buy it. Then what about a M800 owner, a millionaire?




Compared to what? Compared to a hummer Yes. But not M800.

This is how all nano threads are. More fiction than facts.
How many Nano/M800 buyers consider top speed as their buying point.

If these people are not answered they will go on and on. Thats why I replied with some long posts(only to answer some long posts) on this thread.

I find all your statements here reckless, what do you say about that.

I think you guys are taking it too personally, neither i am paid by MS or you are from TATA, so let everyone give their opinions. If you want to reply then do it decently and argue rather than heating up.

PS: This statement is not directed to you only but all of us in this thread.

PPS: i think you meant In your dreams there lol

All said and done if i need a car for city and i have 2L badget i will buy a Nano over M800 i guess, but i will not say nano is more refined or comfortable or even safe than M800. I feel all the comments about safety are baseless, because none of the cars have been tested on that parameter.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by airbender

Examples here: If these people are not answered they will go on and on.

I thought we had brought the thread back on track. Anyway, I don't really think many of the quotes you posted are really reckless (except maybe comparing an M800 to a Passat), if you look at the POV from which they were made and from what a Nano owner (svsantosh) posted about his user-experience.

Originally Posted by airbender

Does any one know what parts were joined using adhesives? With out knowing this is it wise to talk about adhesives use in Nano? Doesnot it sound one sided to say no Nano because it uses adhesives.

Actually, the whole adhesive thing came into the picture because it was pointed out as a hi-point of the Nano. But no one even knows which parts were glued together and the owner could not see any such glued part.

Originally Posted by airbender

Another Mr. Suzuki here.

Agree that the illusion part is not inline with reality, but calling him a Mr.Suzuki for supporting an M800 is akin to calling yourself Mr.Tata just because you support the Nano and does not really help the debate here.

Originally Posted by airbender

Yes. In my dreams.

I stand by the price fact. The Nano as such might not be over-priced, but given that it was touted as a 1-lakh car, you can't fault people for thinking it is over-priced when the price tag crosses double the price.

Originally Posted by airbender

None of the owner reports say so. Well, this is one good marketing technique for Maruti. Call every one driving a Nano a slumdog and no one will buy it. Then what about a M800 owner, a millionaire?

svsantosh did mention an incident that happened to him. Ofcourse those were kids who don't know any better and none of us here would do/think that, but doesn't this again point to how much the promised price-tag is ingrained in the thinking of people ?

Originally Posted by airbender

Compared to what? Compared to a hummer Yes. But not M800.

Yes, against an M800. And I did not say this - a Nano user said this some posts above.

Originally Posted by airbender

This is how all nano threads are. More fiction than facts.
How many Nano/M800 buyers consider top speed as their buying point.

Well, top speed does not really mean anything in India, but does that mean no one talks about it or does not wish for more speed ? It's useful to have and just because the Nano stops at 105kmph, should we say it is irrelevant ?

Let us not get personal and just discuss the 2 cars in question.

[MCR]

Both M800 and Nano are icons in their own way. M800 entered our country when we had just come out of Financial emergency period and the cars we could imagine to drive was either a Premier Padmini or Ambassador( I know these two were great cars in their own right). M800 was the brain child of an individual who could dream for his citizens. Similarly Nano is the brain child of a person who dared to dream for his fellow citizens. It was a dream which was laughed at by one and all. But still history was made in 2008 at Auto Expo. The number of visitors proved that the person who dreamed about Nano was not wrong. Nano proved that Indians can make cars for the world.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

svsantosh did mention an incident that happened to him. Ofcourse those were kids who don't know any better.....

Let me post 1 more funny incident that happened to on the very 1st long drive to Pondycherry.

I had stopped at a railway crossing and sipping a tea, a villager walks up and admires the nano... slowly a crowd gathers (I remember 7-9 guys, kids, grampas, et all). So I start, proudly talking about this lil' guy, rear engine, etc etc... Then a villager from same place rides past in a Suzuki Max100, with a signature tamilnadu handlebar mouchee, lungi and white shirt - stops by the car and turns his head to the pillon - "mamu, indha vandiyila naan saarayam kadai kuuda poggamaaten" - both burst out laughing and ride away.

"mamu - I wont even want to drive upto a ARRACK shop in this car"

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

For those who doubt Nano's Capability.

PicCourtesy -SanjayM@Bcmtouring.com.
Nano Himalayan Expedition - Page 7 - India Travel Forum, BCMTouring

This is indeed a tremendous achievement. Hats of to them. But on a personal note, I was a bit disappointed when I saw a Fortuner as a support vehicle. This makes it more of a personal record.
People go to Leh on cycles with a support team(some without), but it does not prove its the ideal vehicle. It just proves their endurance.
Regarding the nano, the biggest obstacle is 20l fuel tank. In the hills they got 15kmpl mileage, which means you need to carry fuel in jerrycans.

The 800 on the other end, is a darling in the hills. Still people buy this car, and run it on terrains from which SUVs shy away.

Which is better is debatable though. Nano scores on space and comfort, as well as safety(modern design), while 800 scores on drivability and practicality and also ease of repair and cheap spare parts.

but 800 is on its way out, and 2 years from now, there may be no 800.

[longhorn]

Hope they bring in the much needed openable rear hatch door with this price revision. Also hope that Tata Motors understand the fact that the VFM proposition takes a hit with every price increase. We can know the Nano's acceptance in the market by the end of this year. Now that the Sanand plant is up and running, churning out 4.5k units a month, let's see if the Nano rakes up a waiting list. They have mentioned that its currently available off the shelf.

Source : Economic Times

MUMBAI/CHENNAI: Tata Motors is contemplating a price hike, ranging between Rs 5,000 and Rs 15,000 of the new Nanos from August-September this year,according to people familiar with the development. The Nano will be available off-the shelf, once full stream production starts at Sanand, in Gujarat.

At the time of the launch, it was announced that the Mumbai-based auto major will take a call on price increase when it completes delivery of one lakh units. According to a company spokesman, “Tata Motors has not made any decision on any price increase on the Tata Nano. As for the next phase of deliveries, Tata Motors will make appropriate announcements in due course of time.”

With Tata Motors planning to raise production of Nano cars to 1,200 a day at its brand-new factory in Sanand, by December, the company is likely to complete its initial one lakh bookings soon. It is operating on a single shift of eight hours and produces nearly 150 Nanos a day, or 4,500 a month, at Sanand. Its Pantnagar plant has a similar production schedule.

Since it began its delivery in July 2009, Tata Motors has completed the delivery of 33,000 Nanos. Earlier this month, it also started delivery of the BS4 variant.

An industry tracker, on condition of anonymity, said the project’s viability and profitability depends on an imminent price hike. The increase has to be at least 20% for Tata Motors to sustain production and supply.

By the year-end, customers will have to buy a Nano, paying 10-12% more than the launch price. There is no other choice. Suppliers are barely making margins. Many of them, including Bosch, have taken up the assignment from a strategic perspective so that they can face the challenges of supplying components for low-cost cars, he said.

Globally, there is an alignment towards understanding the efficacy of low-cost models. Efficient pricing and doing things differently are the order of the day. While the vehicle manufacturer manages his cash flow well, it is the supply chain that takes the big impact.