[adimicra]

Originally Posted by opendro

@adimicra
Let the road test come out as you say. But just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

- It is not just about better torque in SX4 diesel compared to SX4 petrol, they are of the same power to weight ratio - about 88 bhp per ton. It is only when SX4 shifts down to 4th gear that SX4 will be able to do 185 Kmph whereas diesel will do 175 or so in 5th gear.

- Linea D (69 ps per ton) does 0-100 in 15 secs just because it cannot reach 100 in 3rd gear and the megazine drivers take a sweet 1 sec to shift the gear. A similar power to weight DZire does in 0-100 14.32 sec because there is no need to shift to 4th gear below 100. You can see the correction happening if you compare 0-120. Linea is 1.52 sec quicker than DZire in 0-120, again because DZire would need to shift to 4th gear whereas Linea has already shifted. So, I'm assuming SX4 to have similar gear ratio as DZire, but has 88 ps per ton. So, if we are comparing with DZire, it has got a full 20 ps extra per ton in SX4 and that gives good enough power to shave off 1.5 sec (at a very conservative figure). And that will make SX4 DDiS 0-100 in 12.82 sec. So, I was not entirely claiming that it would lose whole 3 sec.

I find your idea that 88 ps per ton is not powerful quite ridiculous on the contrary. I have rarely come across a driver who drives as fast as I do and people here sit behind keyboard and keep saying that so and so vehicle is not powerful. It is quite contradictory to reality.

[Edit:] Other cars that have around the same power to weight ratio are Vento diesel, Verna CRDI, Optra Magnum diesel. I'm not claiming that SX4 diesel will beat those cars in acceleration because peak power is not everything.

Now, let us not keep boasting of how fast one drives! You really don't know whether other people in this forum (whom you don't know) drive as fast as you or not,do you?. That's anyways besides the point.
Before I comment further, Where is your source of 88 ps per ton? You expect SX4 diesel to be lighter than I20/Polo/Punto/Figo diesels?

[opendro]

Ah. I got that figure slightly wrong. I'm assuming based on SX4 VXi minus 70 Kg, that is 1.1 ton for a 93 ps, that gives just about 85 ps per ton. Nevertheless, it is quite powerful, even comparable to Vento's 86 ps per ton or Alto's 88 per ton.

Here in this forum, we are not supposed to brag about power and speed and people keep complaining that a car that can "comfortably" do 160 Kmph is considered not powerful. That is what I found ridiculous. Sure, if you are going to do 200 Kmph or accelerate 0-100 in 11 seconds, instead of 12.x seconds, this is definitely not your car. I just gave the picture for general masses who would be looking at this segment.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by opendro

Ah. I got that figure slightly wrong. I'm assuming based on SX4 VXi minus 70 Kg, that is 1.1 ton for a 93 ps, that gives just about 85 ps per ton. Nevertheless, it is quite powerful, even comparable to Vento's 86 ps per ton or Alto's 88 per ton.

Here in this forum, we are not supposed to brag about power and speed and people keep complaining that a car that can "comfortably" do 160 Kmph is considered not powerful. That is what I found ridiculous. Sure, if you are going to do 200 Kmph or accelerate 0-100 in 11 seconds, instead of 12.x seconds, this is definitely not your car. I just gave the picture for general masses who would be looking at this segment.

Ah! So you admit you got it wrong.

Let me clarify I am not looking for any car at this moment. But I am just trying to say what I feel about the SX4 and its positioning w.r.t competition.

Now, coming to numbers, Diesel Swift (VDI) is heavier than Petrol Swift (VXI) than 75 kgs.
Linea D is heavier than the Petrol 1.4 NA by 30 kgs.

So, your assumption that the diesel SX4 will be 70 kgs lighter than petrol is totally incorrect.
Expect it to be at least the same or a little heavier than the Petrol (which is a 1.6)

So, we are looking at a weight of 1170 kgs for VDI and 1200 Kgs for ZDI (assuming same weight as petrol best case scenario).
This translates to a power-to-weight ratio of 77-79 ps/ton, which at best, is respectable for the segment but nothing to brag about.
In fact, apart from the Linea, all diesel cars in this segment (New Fiesta/vento/verna) will have better power to weight or torque to weight ratio than the SX4.
Manza, from a segment below, will have similar power-to-weight ratio.


One more point - though Linea is relatively underpowered, it makes up for it by it's superb handling and steering. Same can't be said about SX4.

So, anyone looking at a diesel car from this segment mainly for performance won't choose the SX4 diesel. It can be chose as a good practical VFM sedan with respectable performance

It is pretty clear that SX4 diesel will be at the bottom of the pyramid in the C+ segment diesels in terms of power and performance with Vento/Verna (the new one looks to be a cracker)/new Fiesta etc.
Please note that I am never saying it to be underpowered in the absolute sense, I am just saying that relative to the competition.
Where it can score is the VFM factor and Maruti's A.S.S etc.
So, let us appreciate a car for what it is worth and not portray it as something which it is not.

[opendro]

@adimicra. I have no reluctance to admit that I got it wrong, but I would still stick to my opinion that SX4 DDiS will be decently powerful and fun to drive. Okay, it will not be a rocket, I agree. Also, I'm not claiming that SX4 diesel will be 70 Kg lighter than petrol, it is picked from the news.

You forgot that Swift petrol is just 1.2 L, whereas SX4 petrol is 1.6 litre. Multijet 1.3 diesel engine won awards for light weight and efficiency, it is an all aluminum engine. So, I believe those news that it is 70 Kg lighter than 1.6 petrol engine.

Among the cars yo listed, only Verna will have more power to weight ratio - are we going to argue on this simple maths also?

Exactly, I will not portray the car for what it is not. If you are not agreeing with me on my assumption that it will do 0-100 in 12.x secs alone, then if it does when the road test reports come out, are you going to change your portraying of the car?

Can't wait to test drive this anyway... wasn't it supposed to be launched today?

[swiftnfurious]

Rush lane reports the launch will be on 22 Feb 2011 as quoted by Indian auto blog.

Maruti Suzuki SX4 diesel coming on 22nd February | Rush Lane

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by opendro

Exactly, I will not portray the car for what it is not. If you are not agreeing with me on my assumption that it will do 0-100 in 12.x secs alone, then if it does when the road test reports come out, are you going to change your portraying of the car?

Yes, I will change my view if it does a 0-100 in 11 or at least sub 12 secs, which will be at par with the competition.

The 1.3 MJD with VGT is heavier than the 1.4 Linea petrol (FIRE) engine by 30 kgs. So, I expect the SX4 diesel will be having similar weight as the petrol.

Let us see the numbers after the car is launched. I will try to get my hands on it. My test drive of Linea left me disappointed with the power and initial pick up in particular though ride and handling was great.
The Vento Diesel TD was great, amazing torque and punch from as low as 1500 rpm and handling was good as well ( not great though aka Linea).

Will see how this compares.

[sidindica]

The SX4 diesel brochure. Click on the images to enlarge.

[selfdrive]

@adimicra & opendro Interesting discussion for the enthusiasts, I look forward to your observations and comparos once all these cars are launched by later this year

I note there is no update on the SX4 website as of the initially suspected launch date of today. Is there a different website or perhaps the launch is postponed again?

[sidindica]

Remaining pages of SX4 brochure. Click on images to enlarge.
Launch is on 22nd.

[Naparajito]

Wow!!That's great.
Btw from where did you get the brochures??

[sidindica]

Originally Posted by Naparajito

Wow!!That's great.
Btw from where did you get the brochures??

No idea...just got it. Pricing not declared so no idea. Wait for 22nd.

[erohit]

Thanks a lot Sid. Any idea on tentative price for Vdi and Zdi?

[selfdrive]

Thansk sidindica for the brochure scans.
There doesnt seem to be the red/ copper colour anymore - IIRC, this was discontinued a while ago. Anyone who knows the reason?

[mpksuhas]

As per the brocher 1225/ 1245 kgs for Vdi / Zdi. So instead of being lighter by 70kgs as speculated its around 45 kgs + heavier. Also, as per zigwheels review it takes 14 secs to reach 100 kmph mark.
Maruti Suzuki SX4 : First Drive Page - 2 Zigwheels

[opendro]

Time for me to run for cover after all the analysis and arguments. But they you cannot blame me, they made a car heavier than Linea :-D