[ABHI_1512]

This thread doesn’t surprise me anymore. Fuel prices have shot through the roof with central taxes constituting a major part, gas prices have shot up, over all inflation is on a record high, everyone is feeling the brunt of high fuel
prices and yet, there are people who all defend this abnormal organised loot in the name of nation building !!

The nation is being built for its citizens. If the citizens only are robbed, then what’s the point in building a nation ?

I am sorry for my language but that educated minds are okay with this doesn’t bode well for the country. India used to be a welfare state but the way it’s going now, it will not remain so. Railway subsidies for senior citizens are gone for good, gas subsidies for economically lower strata is gone too. Someone said Vaccines are free for people and so high fuel prices are justified- vaccines were never free, prices were paid for by the very people these were meant for, in the form of indirect and direct taxes and was accounted for in the budget.

Government still controls the oil prices and that’s the only truth. The way the prices are kept at hold during and before any election, the way prices never come down when the international crude prices are low is a sham. Even bigger sham is that we are okay with it as a nation instead of questioning it.

[shortbread]

Like it or not, fuel taxation has always been India's most effective means of revenue generation. The cunning can fool the tax man, but the tricks won't work at the petrol pump. Consume more fuel, pay more taxes.... drink less, pay less.

[GTO]

Guys, just a note = if you post about politicians or politics, your posting rights on this particular thread will be disabled. Thanks for the support & understanding . Do keep our forum rules in mind before hitting that 'submit' button.

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by M00M

The GOI will need funds for all of this and a large chunk of funds will be diverted from the fuel taxes. Even the Oil Bonds issue is on going. .

The oil bonds 'issue' has been totally debunked.

[theredliner]

Tanked up XP95 till auto cut off and the bill crossed the Rs.4000 mark for the first time for me. The low fuel light wasn't even on this time. Had done the last tankful around the time of state election results when it was lesser by Rs.10. (Hadn't bothered doing a tankful last Oct when the price was around Rs.2 more than now as there were signs of reduction)

Come to think of it, a full tank costing 3k+ during those rare Speed 97/Power 99 fill ups a few years back used to shock me, lol.

Thanks to our governments for ensuring my personal growth and enabling me to reach newer, higher milestones

[vharihar]

Saw this article today. The second pic is a zoom in of a para of the article in the first pic. He's quoting petrol prices over the years in the Delhi/UP area (where state VAT is the lowest).

In percentage terms, he seems to say that the rise in fuel prices is the lowest at this time. While one may argue that it's due to the low (or high) base effect, yet, if the data is correct (and I did verify, petrol in Delhi/UP today is indeed Rs 105 per litre), then it is arguable that percentages are indeed the right way to compare. Indeed, inflation, etc CPI index are also percentage based.

Thoughts?

[ashlil]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Saw this article today. The second pic is a zoom in of a para of the article in the first pic. He's quoting petrol prices over the years in the Delhi/UP area (where state VAT is the lowest).

In percentage terms, he seems to say that the rise in fuel prices is the lowest at this time. While one may argue that it's due to the low (or high) base effect, yet, if the data is correct (and I did verify, petrol in Delhi/UP today is indeed Rs 105 per litre), then it is arguable that percentages are indeed the right way to compare. Indeed, inflation, etc CPI index are also percentage based.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that he is not talking about domestic price in relation to crude price at all. He seems good in the art of obfuscation. For example, the average crude price during 2007-2014 seem to around $110/barrel mark, while the same during 2014-2022 seem to around $70 mark (generously speaking). The eye-opening percentage would be the percentage of central tax being applied on the ex-factory price of petrol. If we have that for all the periods, we would get the real picture.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by vharihar

In percentage terms, he seems to say that the rise in fuel prices is the lowest at this time.

Another way to misinterpret things.

But before talking about that, why 2014 - 2022 is taken as a reference? Isn't it related to some particular politics and their price hike?

Now, coming to the point: Take 2007 - 14 and compare with 2014- 22.

During 2007 - 14, brent crude oil rates increased by 50% (72 to 100), and USD to INR changed 50% (41 to 62). Petrol price is increased 60%, when it could have been 100% ( on a rough calculation).

During 2014 to 2022, brent rates remained same (100), and USD to INR changed 25% (62 to 77). But petrol price increased 36%, when it could have been 25%! Also, in between 2014 and 2022, there were times when crude was at $40 - ie, -60%! Not talking about the petrol price during those times.

Now do the Math and delete.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

During 2007 - 14, brent crude oil rates increased by 50% (72 to 100), and USD to INR changed 50% (41 to 62). Petrol price is increased 60%, when it could have been 100%

Its actually 39%, not 50%. But your point is still valid.

Originally Posted by ashlil

My thoughts are that he is not talking about domestic price in relation to crude price at all. He seems good in the art of obfuscation.

True. Obfuscating thus makes him hide the fact that fuel taxes have been raised a lot.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Saw this article today. The second pic is a zoom in of a para of the article in the first pic. He's quoting petrol prices over the years in the Delhi/UP area (where state VAT is the lowest).



Thoughts?

Mods : please delete if it violates the rules on political posts.

Since politics is banned on this forum ( and specifically on this thread ), dont know what your intention is when you put in these propaganda articles - every statistic date in that is selectively chosen to look good. It again and again blames the old regime for all the issues but doenst mention how they have corrected any of the issues.

For example, it tells UPA shut down some oil exploration. What stopped the current govt. from restarting it in 2014?

But they dont care as long as they have an army of people to blindly support them. Attaching a graph form 2018 - they still have it on their party twitter page. Atleast the schools that went to didn't teach me Maths that way. This is not some meme. You can search this on the internet and access the official page.

[anivy]

Since starting to follow this thread, feel that the truth is somewhere out there but we are unable to find or see it from where we are standing w.r.t. our respective experiences. Thought this picture from Twitter is a great representation of the discussions till date!

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Thoughts?

There are lies, damn lies and statistics. That saying couldn't be more appropriate.

We can twist and turn numbers as much as we like but at the end of the day, the common man is the loser. If the common man can't afford his basic items (https://m.economictimes.com/markets/...w/90346796.cms) with these kind of price rises (which have no doubt been caused by the crazy fuel prices) , there won't be new factories popping up due to lack of opportunity and demand since discretionary spend will reduce.

If there are no factories coming, that's a loss for many people in the rural side to earn more and spend more. If there's no spending by the people, there's no economic activity.

That brings us to the evergreen point you bring up about building more infrastructure (especially highways) with all those taxes- if there are no factories going to be made and there is no incentive for movement of people and goods, what's the point of building all this? It shouldn't end up like that 20 lane road in Myanmar (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...-highways-wifi).

I'm not saying building infrastructure is bad, but with the dire state of the economy and the fact that tolls will be collected anyway makes the idea of teaching fuel so high very hard to swallow.

[Chetan_Rao]

INR 1 to INR 2 & INR 100 to INR 200 is same percentage increase.

It's not the same thing though, is it?

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

INR 1 to INR 2 & INR 100 to INR 200 is same percentage increase.

It's not the same thing though, is it?

Well, it might be, if significantly separated in time.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by vharihar

Well, it might be, if significantly separated in time.

'Significant' varies based on who you ask. 7 is significant, so is 70, often to the same lot.

What doesn't vary, is percentages mean nothing if the underlying absolute numbers aren't on comparable scales, but I'm sure the worthy who wrote the article is smart enough to know that, and did it anyway.