[N.A.GTC]

Originally Posted by matizcrazy

The moment income levels dropped a bit and petrol prices continued rising, there is unease. I have weathered tougher storms and this petrol price doesn't shake me.

Good for you.

But some of us like holding our governments accountable to a little higher standard.

"Hamaare zaamane mein" things were very bad is no excuse for letting things be bad today. That's just a silly excuse to turn a blind eye to every attempt at making things better.

[Lobogris]

Getting my EV tomorrow!!
Sort of scary that I won’t have to go to a petrol station anymore unless it has a charger.
Still, I would like the prices to come down due to the overall detrimental impact on the economy. The government has reduced interest rates on deposits drastically claiming it will benefit the corporate sector and help speed up growth but is conveniently overlooking how such high fuel prices will have a cascading negative impact on the economy.

[IamNikhil]

Originally Posted by matizcrazy

Petrol was never cheap at anytime; people just got used to higher consumption because of temporary lower price in the 2000s coupled with higher incomes.
The moment income levels dropped a bit and petrol prices continued rising, there is unease. I have weathered tougher storms and this petrol price doesn't shake me.

Well, seems you are the lucky one in today's world to have attained Nirvana.

Originally Posted by N.A.GTC

...some of us like holding our governments accountable to a little higher standard.

"Hamaare zaamane mein" things were very bad is no excuse for letting things be bad today. That's just a silly excuse to turn a blind eye to every attempt at making things better.

Absolutely! Every generation has encountered umpteen challenges, but wallowing in those and belittling the current troubles is a bit of a stretch IMHO. Ultimately, whatever generation one is from, the taxes and levies are equal... unless you're so well-off financially that these prices don't pinch you. It was still comparatively palatable when petrol prices were hovering in the 90-99/- bracket; never actually thought that any sane government would ever allow the prices to touch/breach the 100/- mark. That's just a psychological barrier which is insurmountable. As honest taxpayers, we are literally paying through our noses on every possible thing today and on top of it, when toll prices and fuel prices are hiked without any marked improvement in the quality of roads/infrastructure, that's just appalling! While the goverment is hungry to fill it's coffers giving reasons like losses due to COVID etc, how are we, hapless citizens doing any better according to the politicians? Haven't we faced financial hardships too, or is it that we have real MG-embossed (Mahatma Gandhi, not Morris Garages) currency growing on our money plants at home! Okay, rant ends here

[carboy]

Originally Posted by matizcrazy

The moment income levels dropped a bit and petrol prices continued rising, there is unease

Would be a great argument if the price rise was beyond the Govt control.

But the price rise was because Central Taxes on Fuel rose from around 9 Rs per litre to 33 Rs per liter. If not for that, the price would be around 80Rs.

[wildsdi5530]

Sarcasm ahead; Don't read if you want to troll.

For the first time in decades, we have an honest corruption free government. We have central and state teams which earn through taxes and not bribes.

All govt official salaries now match private salaries, govt buildings are world class, govt leaders have private jets like corporate leaders. We are finally being recognized as a developing country after so many centuries of decadence.

All this cannot be possible without a redistribution of wealth from the people to the Govt. If all the money was with the people, the govt will be broke and dependent on bribes for it's functioning.

And we all know about the black money that every Indian stores. This is a curse on our economy. By forcing these higher taxes, slowly but surely black money would end up in govt hands and people can live a clean albeit poor life.

[AZT]

Another good explainer busting the whole Oil bonds myth. A long read but but definitely worth it.

https://vivekkaul.com/2021/08/23/exp...and-oil-bonds/

Diesel always had a significant gap with petrol because of public transport and also goods transport being directly affected. The cost of transportation directly affects the cost of any commodity. A good point about the quantum of excise increase below:

A similar story has played out with diesel, with excise duty going up from Rs 3.56 per litre in October 2014 to Rs 31.80 per litre currently, a jump of close to 800%.

[wildsdi5530]

Originally Posted by AZT

A good point about the quantum of excise increase below:

All authors seem to be paid media and never calculate these percentages correctly. This author seems to have overestimated the value to 800%, but most of them grossly underestimate the rate of taxes.


Excise duty in Oct 14 3.56
Diesel rate in Oct 14 66.65
Percentage of excise duty component in Oct 14 = 5.34%

Excise duty in Aug 21 31.80
Diesel rate in Aug 21 88.92
Percentage of Excise duty component in Aug 21 = 35.76%

Increase in Excuse duty component as a percentage of diesel rate 669.71%

Look at my calculations, everything seems to be correct here. But there is a gross mistake. I have calculated Taxes on the MRP where it is inclusive. What I should have done is Calculate Excise percentage with a denominator not as bunk rate (ie 88.92), but the landing cost (ie 36/-).

Thus by increasing the denominator value,the percentage appears much nice. Foe ex., Extra fees we pay on a liter of diesel assuming a retail rate of 88.92 and landing cost of 36 is 88.92-36 = 52.92. Percentage we pay extra is 52.92/36=147%. But what we generally read is 52.92/88.92 = 62.89%

[anb]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

All authors seem to be paid media and never calculate these percentages correctly. This author seems to have overestimated the value to 800%, but most of them grossly underestimate the rate of taxes.

There is nothing wrong with the calculation. Percentage increase is always calculated as a percentage of initial price .

Percentage increase = ( final price- initial price ) * 100 / initial price.

Excise duty in May 2014 - Rs 3.46
Excise duty now - Rs. 31. 83

Percentage increase in excise duty - ( final excise duty- initial excise duty)* 100/ initial excise duty = ( 31.83-3.46)*100/3.46= 819.9 %

[discoverwild]

An RTI filed by Saket Gokhale has revealed that the interest on oil bonds is a mere 9989 Crores and that no principal repayment has been made since FY 2015-16.

According to the MoS Petroleum, Rameshwar Teli, the tax realisation on fuel this year alone is 3.35 Lakh Crores.

Ms. Nirmala Sitharaman has been claiming that the hike in fuel prices is because of the oil bonds and the repayment for the same which now comes out as another blatant lie.

The original post can be read here.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by IamNikhil

OPEC doesn't care a fig about countries like ours. Also, our fuel prices are not directly linked to global crude prices. The only reason we have skyhigh fuel prices is because of arbitrary taxation both at the Central and State levels. There has been a growing demand for including fuel in the list of items that come under GST but no political party has vocally supported this demand, because the oil lobby is very strong. The one and only way to meter fuel prices would be a uniform rate of taxation across the country, which is possible only under the ambit of GST. Till then, let's just wait for another round of elections so the government(s) acts out another gimmick of freezing the price hike and/or reducing the taxes by 1 or 2 rupees, as is the standard norm!

https://www.livemint.com/politics/po...605822924.html

[Meph1st0]

The government might bring fuel under GST but I don't think it will change anything. Take cars, for instance, there is a compensation cess over GST to price it similar to original numbers. SUV prices dropped initially but the government was quick to fix them. The same will happen with fuel as well and there can be N number of cess from covid to environment.
Tax is just a source of income and it is not going to be reduced especially in the current circumstances where revenues are reduced due to covid.

[Nalin1]

https://www.deccanherald.com/busines...t-1030204.html

'Considering' fuel under GST . What matters is the final price!. GST or whatever tax it may be.

[AnandB]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

https://www.deccanherald.com/busines...t-1030204.html

'Considering' fuel under GST . What matters is the final price!. GST or whatever tax it may be.

No way it's going to happen. GST does matter as as a transporter i will be able to claim it as input. Majority of consumption is commercial so that's big loss of income for the government.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

'Considering' fuel under GST . What matters is the final price!. GST or whatever tax it may be.

Agree with you that what eventually matters is final price. But equally important is to see what Government is getting. Just like it happened in case of cars when GST was introduced, the car prices went slightly down. Quickly additional cess was brought into picture. So cars never got cheaper, government could not bear any loss in tax revenue. Even in case of fuel, government will ensure that they aren't losing in revenue. Indian government cannot sustain without fuel tax revenue. This is too optimistic to be honest. And also, if its in GST, and fuel prices will go down, the price of other products would not all of a sudden reduce prices. Example is restaurants, they never decreased prices even if GST was reduced.

So, lets not have high hopes at the moment.

[wildsdi5530]

Originally Posted by AnandB

No way it's going to happen. GST does matter as as a transporter i will be able to claim it as input. Majority of consumption is commercial so that's big loss of income for the government.

The Govt may put a clause that GST on fuel is not eligible for input credit.

There are many items where GST input credit is not eligible -
Motor Vehicles or Conveyances.
Food, Beverages and Outdoor Catering.
Beauty Treatment, Health Services & Cosmetic and Plastic Surgery
Life and Health Insurance
Travel Benefits for Employees.
Works Contract Services
Construction of Immovable Property
Personal consumption
Lost/ stolen/damaged goods
Composition supply.