[400notout]

Originally Posted by condor

About choices - that is the point: Where a person has a choice he will go ahead and spend. Even it a cup of coffee is a few times the price of a litre of fuel. If Starbucks increases the price, hey - no big deal. But even the fuel price is not in control of people, but here they will complain. Even if the coffee is purchased more often than the car is topped up.

You seem to enjoy opening your wallet willingly to the govt. That doesn't mean every one else should bare their wallets too. The tax on fuel is exorbitant, and there is nothing wrong in pointing out so. I filled petrol at 87.13 today. I can afford it ,but it doesn't mean I should enjoy being fleeced. About your coffee comparo, businesses have to work hard to extract that kind of money from a customer for a cup of coffee. Its the competency of the business. Whereas the rising fuel cost is more of a policy failure of the Govt.

When I had paid 85 for petrol during the previous govt, I thought the worst was past us. But the present one has just proven that no matter which govt is in place, they don't care two hoots about us. It's each one for him/herself .

I don't understand why common folks turn free advocates for the govt. It's a different case if you're paid for it, then it's professionalism

[PGA]

Originally Posted by condor

I am not too far away from farmers even today.I have not heard them complain even partly as much as I see some folks, who regularly travel abroad, and yet are complaining about the increasing fuel prices.

About choices - .

Do you agree with the present rate of excise and vat imposed on the fuel.

If Govt requires greater funds to run itself then why not tax mall goers or people who travel abroad etc a little more.

Tax on fuel hurts man on the street many times more when compared to affluent ones. First he spends on fuel much greater percentage of his income second general inflation acts as double whammy.

Frankly, all major efforts of the present Govt have adversely impacted life of man on the street. Maybe good intentions are not getting translated effectively on ground. I am not a well wisher of previous dispensation either, just want goverance to improve with greater accountability and transperancy, maybe as a first the formula for fixing fuel prices could be publically declared.

[AutoNoob]

Request to Mods : If this seems inappropriate, you may delete this.

As received on a Whatsapp group.
It's getting weirder with people taking refuge in statistics to defend the indefensible.



But the people on other side, again using statistics, coming up with rebuttal.

[sibot]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

Request to Mods : If this seems inappropriate, you may delete this.

Not so inappropriate since this is the stupidity being peddled by the ruling party's official twitter account.

[MBstoTBs]

Originally Posted by condor

I have not heard them complain even partly as much as I see some folks, who regularly travel abroad, and yet are complaining about the increasing fuel prices.

About couple of other points in your post, I have already posted about those. So wont repeat.

Even it a cup of coffee is a few times the price of a litre of fuel. If Starbucks increases the price, hey - no big deal.

So the problem is mall goers, and now includes coffee drinkers, overseas travelers? Why do they not have a right to complain - do they not pay taxes, or arent citizens?

As to farmers, google for news on farmers protests in few states as their cost of transport has gone up steadily.

[dailydriver]

DIESEL @ ₹50 & PETROL @ ₹55

I am certainly not joking; but can't say the same of the person proclaiming this in public. NDTV quotes an union minister as saying that:

...petroleum ministry is setting up five ethanol plants, where the fuel will be produced from paddy straw, wheat straw, sugarcane and municipal waste. (Consequently) Diesel will be available at Rs 50 per litre and petrol at Rs 55," he said.

Hopefully, I can purchase a litre of that fuel in my current life!

The honorable minister continues:

We are importing petrol and diesel worth Rs 8 lakh crore and prices are increasing. Rupees is falling against dollar. I have been saying for last 15 years that farmers, adivasis (tribals) and forest-dwellers of the country can produce ethanol, methanol, bio-fuel and can (become rich enough to) fly planes...

Somehow, I end up feeling that a square peg is being projected as being capable of plugging a round hole.

[aim120]

Petroleum minister needs a reality check, the vast majority of the vehicles in India cannot even handle E10 petrol. All the current scooters and majority of the motorcycles sold in India are carburetor based and Ethanol will cause havoc on rubber parts. They are also known to cause engine to run hotter.

Cars currently sold in India are only rated up to E10 or E15 petrol.

[condor]

Originally Posted by 400notout

You seem to enjoy opening your wallet willingly to the govt.

Originally Posted by MBstoTBs

So the problem is mall goers, and now includes coffee drinkers, overseas travelers? Why do they not have a right to complain - do they not pay taxes, or arent citizens?

To answer both of you:

You can make your assumptions. I am looking at overall situation - first for myself. I win some, I dont win some. I may pay a hundred more @ each top-up. But my overall monthly spends are down.

How much a person wants to save or have a surplus is upto each person. What he spens on is also upto him. We cant go on bringing in every single factor from every corner.

You guys can complain all you want, rant all you want. One can shout all he wants from the roof-top, or higher. But rising fuel prices are a given. From what I have been reading, the prices will increase in the near term before settling down. Along with the settling down of international prices, a little more rationalization of prices should also happen.

I have seen petrol prices from single-digit prices. The way things are across the globe - production, reserves, geo-political equations - very likely I will see triple digit figures before I move on.


And to add, funnily, in spite of the 'troublesome" fuel prices, the Indian auto industry is happily revving away. So are the companies inflating the numbers ?

[lurker]

Originally Posted by condor

You guys can complain all you want, rant all you want. One can shout all he wants from the roof-top, or higher. But rising fuel prices are a given. From what I have been reading, the prices will increase in the near term before settling down. Along with the settling down of international prices, a little more rationalization of prices should also happen.

Why not you let them rant away then, instead of keeping following all posts that raise issue on fuel price rise and brush them away as if their complaints are based on some deep character flaw rather than a genuine grievance.

Yes. we do realize that after elections the public is generally at the mercy of these charlatans whom we elect to office. But booing them during election rallies and taking out demonstrations and protest marches are par for course in a democracy. You can rant and rave all you want in favor of your men in power but it ain't gonna change things one bit on the ground on how people perceive a basic commodity sold at ₹ 38 to petrol pump dealer charged ₹ 88, and then some intenet troll tries to explain this away as 'normal'. You do realize many people do not consume exactly 1 litre a day, they may need to earn only ₹500-750 a day and spend away half of that in fuel travelling between various jobs. You also do realize that big hit on quality of life that people are going through and they grit their teeth thinking things may get better tomorrow and may also have energy to protest online of offline. But for certain cyber thugs that may amount to 'those people ain't protesting fuel hikes'.

You say prices will be *rationalized*, and I agree with you. A few months before elections fuel prices will be rationalized by bringing them under GST.

[MBstoTBs]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

As received on a Whatsapp group.
It's getting weirder with people taking refuge in statistics to defend the indefensible.

Notice that in the first infographic, the bar for 2018 at 80 is shorter than 2014 at 71, and also shows a down arrow 13%. Have seen this kind of 'mistake' often in a particular newspaper. The author thinks his readers are stupid.?

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by condor

You guys can complain all you want, rant all you want. One can shout all he wants from the roof-top, or higher. But rising fuel prices are a given. From what I have been reading, the prices will increase in the near term before settling down. Along with the settling down of international prices, a little more rationalization of prices should also happen.

I have seen petrol prices from single-digit prices. The way things are across the globe - production, reserves, geo-political equations - very likely I will see triple digit figures before I move on.

I pay less for fuel here in Australia than India. The minimum wage here is Rs 1000 an hour. Rising fuel prices are not a given because there is much more the government can do apart from quoting per barrel prices.

Originally Posted by condor

And to add, funnily, in spite of the 'troublesome" fuel prices, the Indian auto industry is happily revving away. So are the companies inflating the numbers ?

Even though there is air pollution, the living standards are dropping and there is too much population already, people are still having kids.

[srishiva]

I dont understand how buying more oil from abroad is really hurting this govt ? We do lose precious foreign exchange doing so but isn't the foreign currency reserve healthy ?

For every paisa invested in oil, they are getting a great amount in return. What will they do if electric vehicles become the norm ? Or do they want them in the first place ?

Oil is an essential commodity not used just for going on vacation.

[discoverwild]

I wrote this a few months ago.
----
Wonder why the Government shies away on reducing taxes on fuel?

One of the biggest spins that the current Government came up with was 'Development'. New roads, new highways, new statues (if you can call it development), 'smart' cities and more dams, interlinking rivers, bullet trains etc. Notice the common factor in all these items of development?

It's infrastructure, which entails the massive use of construction/cement/stones/petroleum and its byproducts. Can you understand why most politicians are either in these businesses or directly and indirectly associated with people in such industries? Simple. It's a money spinner of unimaginable proportions.

So where does the money come from? From taxes which we pay on everything we buy to income tax on what we earn. The biggest income earned by the Government is from taxes on fuel. This money finds its way to politicians/business associates through a legal system that's clandestinely thrust upon us in the name of development.

This way, although we have two 4-lane highways interlinking Chennai and Salem, a new 8-lane one is being proposed on an entirely different route. Why? Why not extend another two lanes on the existing routes itself?

Why? Because you make more money in a totally fresh project and a comparatively paltry sum in revamping an existing one.

Ever wondered why your city has new flyovers and metros coming up but existing roads are always in shambles? This is exactly why. There's more money to make in a new one and much less in repairing an existing road or bridge or building.

This wanton spending to fill the pockets of the select few is what is killing everything (forests, wildlife, water sources, agriculture, natural resources) and everyone (due to pollution, temperatures, chronic diseases) around us.

If you think all this development is making your life easy, think again. Ask for improvement of existing infrastructure and a ban on new projects of hyperventilating magnitude.
-----

I was involved in the construction of the Golden Quadrilateral for a tiny part of it in Odisha during 2000-01. A 63-km stretch costing 196 Crores, without major bridges (3 bridges were a separate tender). Today, the TN Government is planning a totally unnecessary 8-lane highway for a 273km stretch from Chennai to Salem at an estimated cost of 10,000 Cr (incl a compensation package). Do I need to add who benefits from this?

[drmohitg]

I see that a few posts are talking about things becoming normal once fuel is brought under GST. Do you really believe such a thing will happen? Didn't we all see that as soon as the government realised that they are losing revenue by bringing cars under GST, they immediately added duties and surcharges and ensured that it comes back to the pre GST price. What makes you think that fuel will be treated any different. As I understand, price increase apart, we know that fuel is one of the major revenue generator for the government. Why will they take a pay cut on that?

[saket77]

Petrol hits Rs. 80.20 in Ranchi, breaking the yet another psychological barrier of Rs. 80 yesterday. Diesel is also selling close for Rs. 77.3X here. Don't see any respite in future too, because whatever the current level is, the trend now is that it becomes new base price!! The state Govt. at the max may cut some taxes and that might bring the price lower by a maximum of Rs 2/- per liter. I don't expect anything else much. This is a big disappointment from Central Govt as they said that they will roll back the excise once fuel price rises; this was when they jacked up the excise heavily when crude tumbled to less than 40$ per barrel. So, we don't get the benefit of lower crude prices and any increase in crude or fall in rupee value is passed to customers. Simply unfair; daylight robbery it is.

I think I'll sell my cars and should rather save for a Tesla.