[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

If not, let government clearly say fuel pricing is not deregulated. Aam aadmi really does not have much choice.

With taxes (right from imports, through excise, VAT etc) making up the bulk of the pricing fuel price is (and is not) really unregulated. Remember taxes can (and often are) tweaked. Remember the most silly of all -floor Value Added Tax, an exercise in contradictions.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

With taxes (right from imports, through excise, VAT etc) making up the bulk of the pricing fuel price is (and is not) really unregulated. Remember taxes can (and often are) tweaked. Remember the most silly of all -floor Value Added Tax, an exercise in contradictions.

I think, the below pic perfectly explains how the taxation policy of the government doesn't allow the fuel price to fall and instead use that to fill the govt coffers and in turn help the corrupt have a bigger buffer to loot from.

[RaghuVis]

A small dose of Acche Din for Mumbaikers! Petrol price to cost more!

http://www.rediff.com/business/repor...e/20160916.htm

[carbookie]

Originally Posted by amalji

I think, the below pic perfectly explains how the taxation policy of the government doesn't allow the fuel price to fall and instead use that to fill the govt coffers and in turn help the corrupt have a bigger buffer to loot from.

Attachment 1554899

Why this cynical attitude?

Money collected is reducing or trade deficit. It comes back to you in form of infrastructure and development...

[sumeethaldankar]

The VAT charge seems to be have been implemented already. Petrol now cost 70.65 in Mumbai instead of the revised 69.13 on 16th Sept.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by carbookie

Why this cynical attitude?

Money collected is reducing or trade deficit. It comes back to you in form of infrastructure and development...

How much % of that goes back into infrastructure is my problem.
I have seen the difference when honest people are in charge of infrastructure projects.

Like, for eg:- when the metro man - E Sreedharan handles a project, in most cases, he completes the project well within the estimated cost. Check here. The over bridge was completed in 25% less of the estimated cost. And I know of much smaller over bridges completed at higher prices in the same state.

Even our CM at that time ( Oommen Chandy ) didn't utter a single word of this achievement during the inauguration, because that would expose the other projects where the expense's 30% - 40% would be corruption and commissions.

I was cynical indeed. But, it's more due to what I see whenever I deal with govts ( regardless of whether it's state/center or Congress/BJP )

[lurker]

Diesel is still way more sensible choice as compared to Petrol considering most diesel cars give far more mileage as compared to petrol even in start-stop traffic/full airconditioning/city usage as compared to petrol. Petrol cars are fuel guzzlers and are very sensitive to load/AC/City-highway etc. I now think Petrol should be discarded by most users and opt for Electric cars or diesel cars. They will save much more money in long term that way.

And even if you do not personally want to save money on fuel bills, there is a limit to subsidising govt expenditure by mindlessly & repeatedly filling up on petrol which is just like paying double taxes to your govt over and above your income tax, registration tax, VAT, road tax etc. It doesn't make any sense.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by lurker

I now think Petrol should be discarded by most users and opt for Electric cars or diesel cars. They will save much more money in long term that way.

And even if you do not personally want to save money on fuel bills, there is a limit to subsidising govt expenditure by mindlessly & repeatedly filling up on petrol which is just like paying double taxes to your govt over and above your income tax, registration tax, VAT, road tax etc. It doesn't make any sense.

There are other factors that we should be concerned of as well.

• The government's attitude towards Diesel and its pollution.
• The expense needed to make Diesel to Euro 6 levels which will become a mandatory requirement soon and whether that additional capital expenditure is worth it.
• The additional recurring expense in terms of refilling the urea for neutralising Nox and how it will affect the running expense

Already market has started shifting to Petrol. And with volumes going down, it becomes even more a difficult proposition for manufacturers to come up with better technologies. So, we might end up seeing a gradual shift towards Petrol/Hybrid/alternate fuels.

PS: I own a Diesel Etios and I just love it for its efficiency as well as the low end torque that it supplies.

[carbookie]

Originally Posted by amalji

How much % of that goes back into infrastructure is my problem.
I have seen the difference when honest people are in charge of infrastructure projects.

So there are two issues here. One money does come back to us in terms of social infrastructure, safety, development. It might go in defense providing you security, it might go in developing a Health center in village, providing you with a healthy workforce. Many a times we are indirect beneficiaries of these taxes paid. So we all should never look at immediate benefit we get out of our taxes (my view)

Second issue you mention is corruption. And definitely it is one of the big challenges that face our nation. All of us can play our small part in curbing this menace. But this should not be a reason for not paying taxes etc.

Also, I have another thought on this whole matter. Do we really want Petrol to touch 30/- per liter. At least I don't want that. It will skyrocket the consumption. Everything said and done, Petrol is a imported item for us and precious. We should not price it at a point where wastage is a viable option. I would rather have petrol priced moderately, and the money used effectively in other social initiatives.

[sgiitk]

One thing to bear in mind, Rupees is likely to be stable and improve, Nirmala Seetharaman wanting depreciation not withstanding. StanChart expects 66.00 levels by the end of the year. By all accounts crude will remain in the $45-50 range. So maybe we are looking at a stable price regime.

As for the D vs P Debate even in the UK, where D costs a bit more than P, D cars sell. Basically fleet operators and the high mileage motorists buy them. So let us leave this argument at that.

[sumzup]

Looks like we will have another downward revision on the 1st of October. The crude has been holding out and hasn't increased during the past week or so. Adding to it, there has been a fall of almost 2 dollars yesterday due to Saudi's comments that a decision will not be forthcoming from next week's OPEC meeting in Algiers. There is also news that the Federal Reserve is looking to restrict bank involvement in physical commodities and dollar strength. All in all, even the revision being downwards it might not be big and could be around 50 paise or so on both petrol and diesel.

[RSR]

So the international oil mafia bashi-bazouks have arrived at a decision to go back to their vile ways and re-start their extortion racket:

http://m.businesstoday.in/story/opec.../1/237935.html

At the moment, only the vicious oil cartel called OPEC has decided to partly close the oil tap, but it's only a matter of time before they get the even more dangerous rogues (i.e. the bloodthirsty scoundrels who violently grab the lands of neighbouring countries & shoot down passenger aircraft) of the international oil mafia to join in their crooked gameplan.

Let the oil mafia rogues play their dirty games. They're in for a surprise, nay shock, if they think they can squeeze the hell out of ordinary consumers across the globe and use the extorted monies to fund their diabolical deeds.

Modern technology and free-market principles will come to the rescue of the common man/woman across the planet. The land of the free market believers and home of the brave entrepreneurs is all set to act as the saviour of the ordinary planetary motorist who would otherwise stare at his/her wallet being emptied at an alarming rate by the international oil mafia leeches.

The shale oil producers are all set to do the needful when the oil mafia rogues start to turn off their oil taps. While a section of the oil mafia tried to deliberately crush the fledgling shale oil industry, it has only made the shale producers stronger and more resilient! That's the difference between free market entrepreneurs and good-for-nothing mafiosi-like extortionists!!!

Virtus in Arduis is an old Latin proverb that means, "There is strength to be gained from hardship". True to this adage, the brave shale entrepreneurs have only become stronger as a result of the evil games being played by the international oil mafia. The break-even level of American shale has steadily come down due to technological enhancements and smart management techniques:



http://www.wsj.com/articles/two-year...ore-1474968601

So bring it on, you vicious international oil mafia blood suckers! The average motorist in non-oil producing countries would rather give his/her money to buy fuel from free market entrepreneurs using technology than become a victim of the vile oil mafiosi and the heinous extortion rackets they run.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by RSR

Let the oil mafia rogues play their dirty games. They're in for a surprise, nay shock, if they think they can squeeze the hell out of ordinary consumers across the globe and use the extorted monies to fund their diabolical deeds.

We had a discussion on this in another slightly related thread, I don't think there's any stopping that can be done of these people. They have infiltrated every fibre of living on this earth and their enemies are at best.. controlled opposition and/or intentional rogue agents created for a purpose. I can write a book on this but I'll be brief here and keep it to oil sector.

Modern technology and free-market principles will come to the rescue of the common man across the planet. The land of the free market believers and home of the brave entrepreneurs is all set to act as the saviour of the ordinary planetary motorist who would otherwise stare at his/her wallet being emptied at an alarming rate by the international oil mafia leeches.

Do look up repulsine implosion motor by Viktor Schauberger. There is no free market nor is there a reward for coming up with earth-friendly technologies. There is this NWO which might as well be called the OWO because they are the end all. Rest are marionettes dancing on their string.

The shale oil producers are all set to do the needful when the oil mafia rogues start to turn off their oil taps. While a section of the oil mafia tried to deliberately crush the fledgling shale oil industry, it has only made the shale producers stronger and more resilient! That's the difference between free market entrepreneurs and good-for-nothing mafiosi-like extortionists.

In the end the source-point of supply and pricing is one, the rest are throttled beyond recognition. That's how man works, I don't believe in humankind because one saying rings true to them always - ultimate power corrupts ultimately. If not one party then 100 others.

So bring it on, you vicious international oil mafia blood suckers! The average motorist in non-oil producing countries would rather give his/her money to buy fuel from free market entrepreneurs using technology than become a victim of the vile oil mafiosi and the heinous extortion rackets they run.

I'll be a devils advocate here and say I'm happy with their pricing. I'll buy the engine capacity I can afford so that my spending is lessened and also use the car less because I can save money and also be kind to the environment. Such pricing should lead to downsizing of engines and I'm happy for that, for the ultra-rich well I'm happy that their 3.0 litre engines will drain their pockets that much more.. I wouldn't mind it either if I had that kind of resources. All businesses are a racket or will end up becoming one.. that is quite obvious because the end goal is either maximisation of money or control. For the "agencies" its control.

[pgsagar]

We have seen Roman and British Empires come and go. It's about time this greedy Middle East mafia empire fell, too.

[condor]

But at the moment, time to top-up. Expect 1-2 Rs increase tomorrow.