[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Losses ???

Govt gave 200 cror loan Rs to TATA at 1% interest for 21 years.

That is more then 2000 cror Rs from your pocket and mine (As taxpayers).

Subsidies, tax breaks got Tata to Singur

Govt will also write off VAT/CST (again in terms of interest free loan).

You seem concerned about 200 crores of tax payers' money being used for a good cause of setting up a factory but you are silent about THOUSANDS OF CRORES that are simply being looted and pocketed by various poiticians in this country form an MP down to a Village Serpanch. Is that not tax payers money?

[opendro]

Tatas ask vendors to send Nano spares to Pune plant

[Mayavi]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

This is MY money (and every other taxpayer's) it must not be given to any business. Business can raise the cost of goods. Why should I pay for somebody else's car??

It would be better spent on Roads/ Hospitals/ Schools/ Collages. India needs lots of them.

Sure we need the money for roads, hospitals and schools but what good are roads if people do not have vehicles to drive on them? what good are schools if the poor farmer cannot afford to send his kid to school? and what good are hospitals if they people are going to die of starvation anyway?
So, before we have roads, hospitals and schools, we need employment. Now the 200 cr which govt. is giving TATA at an affordable interest rate (If they don't loan it for 1%, they put it in bonds for 3% anyway) would help TATA set up a plant that would generate employment to atleast 1000 people directly and 10,000 people indirectly. The government can collect tax from these 10,000 people working in organized sector which they couldn't earlier as they were in the unorganized farm labor or farmers themselves (neither of which are taxes).

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

You seem concerned about 200 crores of tax payers' money being used for a good cause of setting up a factory but you are silent about THOUSANDS OF CRORES that are simply being looted and pocketed by various poiticians in this country form an MP down to a Village Serpanch. Is that not tax payers money?

One crime does not justify other crime.

As far as tax breaks are concerned, WB and other states must lean from Gujarat. This state flatly refused concepts of "backward areas" and incentives for industries.

Still it gets far more investment.

Why?? because it has much better infrastructure among other things. This money can better be spent on creating the infrastructures.

Originally Posted by Mayavi

Sure we need the money for roads, hospitals and schools but what good are roads if people do not have vehicles to drive on them? what good are schools if the poor farmer cannot afford to send his kid to school? and what good are hospitals if they people are going to die of starvation anyway?

Govt schools are free, so anybody can afford studying there. And if someone is starving, give him food rather then giving money to business.

Its not like TATA is in deep loss and needs taxpayer's support for survival.

[snaronikar]

Just read this...

BB says Singur is an exception. But why? If this happens to other places then that will also be exceptions for politicans.

Singur is an exception, says Buddhadeb

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

One crime does not justify other crime.


Its not like TATA is in deep loss and needs taxpayer's support for survival.

Completely agree. Its not govt's business to look after TATAs well being. It was such a hideous step in the first place to forcibly acquire farmer's agricultural land and hand it to TATAs. On the top of it so many sops and all.

But I think TATAs cant be blamed for anything. The biggest guilty party here is the left govt. Why couldnt they find 1000 acres of useless land somewhere (instead of forcibly occupying farmers land)! I cant believe there is no waste land in entire state of Bengal!!!

[mjothi]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Its not like TATA is in deep loss and needs taxpayer's support for survival.

In my opinion, its actually the Govt. who want to "bring in" TATA and create "oppurtunity" for growth. Once there is a industry in the place, then other industry will also come in. This will lead to more people getting jobs, more people move in and help in real estate sector, food, transport and its like a chain.
So, basically WB govt needs to change the "image" of WB and attract new development.
Now, TATA is into business whether or not WB gives land. Its just because they said they will additional sops and promotions, TATA gave "preference" to WB.
If they have said no in the initial stage, TATA would have still been in to NANO business but in a different or same location which they felt is better for their future business.
Just my 2 cents.

[snaronikar]

Originally Posted by joslicx

But I think TATAs cant be blamed for anything. The biggest guilty party here is the left govt. Why couldnt they find 1000 acres of useless land somewhere (instead of forcibly occupying farmers land)! I cant believe there is no waste land in entire state of Bengal!!!

Do you think any industry will come in and set up theri plant in the barrend land? Impossible. The ideal locationis near the river side or any water bodies sorrounding it. In this case, the river is flowing next to this land and they need water for the plant activities. WB govt might have choosen 3 or 4 aread and asked Tata might choose any one and they have choosen where it is most suitable to build a plant.

[opendro]

Originally Posted by snaronikar

Do you think any industry will come in and set up theri plant in the barrend land? Impossible.

At least, in Chennai where many companies of all kinds are setup, including Hyundai's export hub, it is almost barren. So, I think you have made an an uninformed statement about the possibility.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by snaronikar

Do you think any industry will come in and set up theri plant in the barrend land? Impossible. The ideal locationis near the river side or any water bodies sorrounding it. In this case, the river is flowing next to this land and they need water for the plant activities. WB govt might have choosen 3 or 4 aread and asked Tata might choose any one and they have choosen where it is most suitable to build a plant.

Well agriculture should get preference! I dont agree that cultivated land should be forcibly taken and a factory to be set up in the name of employment. More than cars people need food. If farmers are discouraged like that (as if floods, famines, fires, local moneylords and middlemen etc were not enough) then in coming time we might not have enough food to eat. Govt can always find barren land as close as possible and try and provide necessary infrastructure there (like roads, electricity etc). Forcibly occupying prime agri land is really nothing more than daylight robbery & thuggery!!!

And the argument about jobs being created and villagers getting jobs! I remember watching a classic Kamal Hasan movie long back. He is portrayed as a happy go lucky simple villager who life gets ruined when an industrialist 'friend' comes and dupes him of his land etc in the name of setting a factory. Kamal gets a sentence (for wrongdoings of his friend), daughter ends up in a brothel and his son was also lost. Its not hard to imagine that some of the singur farmers might end up like that. They got some money as compensation for their land. This money attracts "others" (others can be relatives, fraudsters, thiefs even kidnappers!) In the end a simple 'kisan' is left with neither money nor land!!!

[snaronikar]

@joslicx: Not sure whether the filmy story applies here. If you want to blame anyone, it should be to WB Govt and to some extent MB also. Because of these people Kisan is suffering..

Originally Posted by opendro

I think you have made an an uninformed statement about the possibility.

Let us leave aside the Nano project and study the projects that are coming up in Orissa and where are they supposed to construct the plants. You will come to know the truth.

[METISWHG]

sorry for going off topic, On all this debate about agri land versus barren land, the thought that strikes me is 'was Gurgaon an agri land before it became what it is today?'. if yes what happened to the farmers? arent more of them still selling land?

contrast it to singur, once factory is setup will the farmers who have agri land around the complex keep doing farming on that land? or will have more SUVs with the farmers who sold the land later

wouldnt it be better if WB took a larger area than 1000 acres, and redistributed land to all in proportion. you get half the land of what you had to give up and rest half in money... and the farmers cant use the distributed land for anything other than farming(no construction zone or something). that way you have a plant and you have farmers(with finance to do better agri) who get to farm(willingly or unwillingly).

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Losses ???

Govt gave 200 cror loan Rs to TATA at 1% interest for 21 years.

That is more then 2000 cror Rs from your pocket and mine (As taxpayers).

Subsidies, tax breaks got Tata to Singur

Govt will also write off VAT/CST (again in terms of interest free loan).

Other states were also ready to give similar loans and tax breaks. Tata's business case and pricing was based on this and now he will go into losses because WB govt cannot keep its promise. Clear breach of contract.

If the issue is that govt using taxpayers money to promote business, that's a topic for another day. BTW, all states and countries also do it. Its all about throwing a small fish to catch a big one.

[chncar]

Originally Posted by opendro

At least, in Chennai where many companies of all kinds are setup, including Hyundai's export hub, it is almost barren. So, I think you have made an an uninformed statement about the possibility.

I am familiar with the industrial land in and around Chennai and regarding your comment, i would say yes and no. The land was for the most part not used for rice paddies or such, but they belonged to farmers, and are mostly grasslands or grazing land.

Also compared some rural corner of WB where you might find truly barren land, the land in Chennai is not 'barren' in the sense that there is very good infrastructure within reach. In fact there is a roaring business going on in selling plots on similar land for housing developments. So the land is very much usable and profitable for the owner with or without industry, and in fact the presence of industry helps them get better prices.

[chncar]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Losses ???

Govt gave 200 cror loan Rs to TATA at 1% interest for 21 years.

That is more then 2000 cror Rs from your pocket and mine (As taxpayers).

Subsidies, tax breaks got Tata to Singur

Govt will also write off VAT/CST (again in terms of interest free loan).

I'm sorry, but I would rather have my tax money going to private entrepreneurs to build industry than to the Mamtas/Commies/Politicos/Babus of the country. Or for that matter to keep PSUs alive that cant turn out a single competitive or quality product, yet focus on reservations, job security, unionization, anti-privatization, and language promotion.