[LakeWalker]

Originally Posted by officer416

Chinese makers won't make a mark in India anytime soon because government doesn't trust there data policies. There is a reason they have banned Chinese produced EV's in US and Canada due to national security concerns. These cars are surveillance equipment on wheels and making them mass market will give the foreign government access to zones where generally you can't get your satellites and other stuff in motion. Can't stop employees from driving their cars to work. While they are parked, they are still harvesting data.

Plus China has a specific law where it can ask companies to provide backdoor access to everything and they have to comply. That is why Huawei network equipment was banned in the west. People can say its all conspiracy and blah blah but we live in reality and current market situation its that its banned in US and Canada to sell Chinese produced vehicles, that includes Tesla as well.

Ha ha, you understand that all these American companies will already have a backdoor entry for American authorities whether that information is public or not, right? (Even our PayTM admitted - on sting operation camera - happily handing over some user information to some ruling party leaders, not even actual govt authorities). So I think IF and WHEN a situation arises, the govt authorities can force entry to all these "privacy first" domestic companies, no matter which country they are from. But they can't do that to a foreign company. Hence, the local govt will always be kind of hostile towards foreign companies.
I used to believe that "Huawei network equipment is a threat to american national security" story and think "wow these chinese are spying on everyone" till I saw Huawei's recent phones and other spectacular products. Now I understand that America just wanted to protect their domestic (but not that efficient) companies like Apple, hence they banned Huawei products and stopped Google from providing Android support.IF Huawei phones were supporting Android, that would've caused Apple a huge market loss.

So coming back to the topic, every country's govt will protect their domestic companies and every govt will have a backdoor entry to all these systems WHEN and IF they want. The rest of the stories we hear are just PR stuff to cover up these actions and convince us otherwise.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by carjack3090

Attachment 2746848

Now this is how the deal should be. India should do same with EU. We will take your Rolls Royce EV for no tarrif if you let us sell Evitara and 9e without any tarrif

Why would UK even agree to this? It looks so one-sided and we are not exactly in position of power for this.
What are the made in UK cars that will satisfy this criteria? A couple of Aston Martins and Rolls Royce?

Isnt this also bad optics for the government as it comes across as pro-rich?

[carjack3090]

Originally Posted by m8002?

Why would UK even agree to this? It looks so one-sided and we are not exactly in position of power for this.
What are the made in UK cars that will satisfy this criteria? A couple of Aston Martins and Rolls Royce?

Isnt this also bad optics for the government as it comes across as pro-rich?

Getting an FTA is victory for UK. They have literally nothing to offer. Just putting signature on the FTA itself should be a Win for UK, getting to sell their cars at 0 tarrif should be considered a bonus point

[BusCar]

I am amused by the Criticism and harshness towards Indian origin Car Manufacturers. This also gives some idea regarding anger regarding apathy and acumen of Research and Development (R&D) by earlier Indian Car Manufacturers, or either having no idea regarding R&D.

I remember reading a story regarding 2 Japanese exchange Students studying in America in the 1960s. I am not sure whether this is a True story or an Invented one, but one may get the notion regarding the point it make. So the story goes like this:
2 Japanese exchange students studying in America use Japan made pencils, which broke frequently. The American students in there class ask them to use made in America pencils, which were of better quality and were durable. The Japanese students replied that they knew that the pencils they had would break; and it would take some time for improvement in Quality. But if they do not use made in Japan pencils themselves, then who will use those pencils and how will then the Quality improve if no one is buying those pencils (no money to invest in improvements for the business).

Now coming to Facts:

The Indian Car Scene:

Pre1980-1990:
There was License Raj and only few Manufacturers were assembling Cars with License from Foreign Manufacturers. Import Duty on Cars was High. Hindustan Motors, Premier Automobiles got good commerical success; but they did not invest much in development of indigenius Products. There was some opportunity, but it did not happen.
GOI collaborated with Suzuki and introduced Japanese engineered Products in Indian market, which were successful. Tata could not make a joint venture with Honda in this time period - not able to recall the reason whether it was due to entry of Suzuki with Maruti. M&M was manufacturing Utility vehicles, informally called as Jeeps.
In the meanwhile, Japanese and Korean Car manufacturers had developed themselves with in-house capabilities, R&D, Quality Control techniques and started entering Global markets.

1990-1998:
Post Liberalization, there was 100%FDI by Global Automobile Manufacturers in India. Hyundai, GM, Fiat, Honda made entry in the Indian Car Market. At this time Premier made JV with Pueguot which got closed. So we did not had any Indigenious developed Products still.

1998-2010:
Tata launch the Indica, which was developed in India. Manufacturers such as Hyundai, GM, VW, Fiat, Honda, Ford, with backing of their Global R&D started manufacturing Cars in India. These companies were successful and contributed to Export of Cars from India.
The market share was also distributed among Car OEMs.
Tata did launch Nano, which is an Indigenious developed Car. This showcased Frugal Engineering and in-house R&D capabilities. But this was met with multiple issues and was not that successful, inspite of being Team BHP COTY. We have a separate thread for this.
Interesting ICE Cars do still catch fires even recently, inspite of Developments in Automobile Field.

2010-2019:
Maruti increased it market share to 50% with setbacks by other OEMs. Suzuki even added New Manufacturing Plants inspite of Maruti having Free cashflows, which could have been invested in R&D. Maruti also had increase in stake by Suzuki earlier with reduction of share holding by GOI.
Meanwhile, Indian Origin OEMs were nowwhere doing much. Hindustan Motors closed. Premier tried with Rio, but then closed it. Tata's Car Business was in bad shape.

M&M was doing Good and showcased capabilities with their XUV500, which was a successful Car with new features. By end of the decade, Tata did turnaround and gave 5 Star Cars to the Indian Market.

But here, the Global manufacturers were also having issues. GM and then Ford closed manufacturing Cars. Renault after some success lost market share. VW could not sustain there initial success.

2019-Present:
Indian origin manufacturers are now only M&M and Tata. They have now gained some market share and are doing Financially good to invest in R&D.

But we missed the point here, that, in the meanwhile, Chinese OEMs invested in R&D of EVs and got better and better. They got investment and support internally. There was no 100% FDI and they could do JVs with Global OEMs to learn know how of Global Practices and Quality control techniques.
The Traiff related Protection in India is related to Manufacturing and earlier 100%FDI was allowed without any JVs.

Hence, let's be less critical of Indian OEMs as in Automobile sector, they have to develop Products with in-house R&D. Let us admire Global Products and hope that Indian OEMs make Good Cars.

On the other side, in case of Two-Wheeler market, Indian OEMs have developed Good Products and are exporting in Good Numbers. They are even performing well in Indian Market and giving New Products with improved technology as well.

[anandhsub]

As long as one needs to get a schengen to even visit let alone work in the EU all CBUs must be taxed heavily.

Let all nations which have free movement go ahead with free trade. It ain't applicable for India.

[RM Motorsports]

Government considers cutting duty on high-end bikes.

[LordSharan]

What would be the implications on price? Would the bikes see a reduction in price, or Would the manufacturers pocket the profit? If the prices come down, it could have varying implications: a) the resale value of used bikes would take a massive hit, b) it could mean that Ninja ZX4r could be priced similar to ZX10R, i.e. the lower capacity imported motorcycles would suffer against their higher capacity imported stablemates. I understand the quoted motorcycles are japanese, but you get the drift.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by LordSharan

What would be the implications on price? Would the bikes see a reduction in price, or Would the manufacturers pocket the profit?--

The duty reduction should reflect in the final price to the customer.

See the strongly worded statement from Tesla:

the core challenge lies in India’s complex and steep tax regime. “Any car we send into India is subject to a 70% import tariff, plus an additional 30% luxury tax,” he said, noting that this makes Tesla vehicles effectively 100% more expensive than in other markets. “This creates a lot of anxiety for customers,” Taneja explained, “because they feel they’re paying too much for the car — and importantly, that money isn’t coming to Tesla. It’s going to the local government.”

Link:

[LordSharan]

Originally Posted by volkman10

The duty reduction should reflect in the final price to the customer.

Then the thought this idea (of reduction in duties from US, EU) getting implemented in real life is too good to be true. There's no way I see government letting go of it's revenue stream, Car/Bike manufacturers selling their products at lower prices. While it may boost their sales volume, the brand perception will see churn. It will need an entire rejig of pricing across families - CKDs are taxed at a lower percentage (35%) vs CBUs (100%)

Case in example. (all prices ex-showroom)
Scenario 1:
1. Virtus 1.5 DSG Ex-showroom in India: 19.4L INR
2. Toyota Camry in India: 48.65L INR, post reduction in duties - 24.5L considering US prices of 28.7K USD


Scenario 2
1. BMW 5 series in India: 72.9L INR
2. BMW 7 series in India: 184L INR. Post removal of duties - 83.9L INR considering US prices of 97.3K USD.