[Mad Pursuer]

True, that the Curvv with its 1.2 turbo isn't a real competition to the top-end Mid-size SUVs with thier 1.5 turbo petrols. But I think its is meant to be that way. Tata have placed Curvv strategically at the lower end of the mid-size (Compact) SUV segment, while offering the Sierra to cater to the mid to upper end of segment, there by splitting the segment. Whether it will be a game changer, we need to wait and see. Nevertheless, its is a
brilliant strategy, and remember Tata Motors have been known for creating new segments in the past with much success. Note, Sierra is planned to be launched with a brand new 1.5 Turbo GDI developed over the neW ALFA ARC Platform. And the same 1.5 GDI is slated to power the petrol versions of Harrier/Safari siblings.

And with the Mahindra parallel, IMO Thar Roxx will never be competing with any of the Mid size / Compact SUV offerings from other brand. It will patrol in its own unique beat of life style SUV
beat, not eat up into any other car in the same length. The patrol-beat reference was to
emphasize that a lot of people in the eyeing to buy in this segment, do look at Thar Roxx as a spiritual peer to the Bolero, in looks and functionality, despite it being stunning and super capable. I think this will be a factor that will keep the Roxx and its sibling always in niche, not selling in formidable numbers to dominate the segment eat up other. Simply put, Roxx will never be a Creta.
Car sales.

[arjab]

Originally Posted by 07CR

There's a reason they pay huge royalty to fiat for that 2.0 diesel and not develop their own engine.

TML has acquired the IPR, (Intellectual Property Rights), of the 2-litre Fiat diesel engine which will give them the freedom to upgrade it as per their requirement.

Originally Posted by 07CR

All their other engines be it the one in Altroz/punch which is very anemic or the flat spots littered 1.2 turbo in Nexon, have been mediocre at best.

Agreed. TML badly needs a "designed from scratch" petrol engine family in their arsenal. The problem are the huge investments that would be required. You cannot simply develop only a new 1-litre or a 1.5 litre gasoline engine. OEM needs to create an "engine family" , much like a platform, which can support different engine displacements and be compatible with multiple fuel types and at the same time be able to exist on its own or in tandem as a hybrid/range extender etc, etc.
The lifecycle of engines are much longer compared to cars. Typically anywhere between 20-25 years, if not more. Now with EV's coming in, it is becoming a trifle difficult, for any OEM, to justify all new fossil fuel powertrain development. The overwhelming pressure from the company's senior management is to "get the maximum out of what you got"

Originally Posted by 07CR

Varicor 400 was an exception for that time.
I don't understand why tata simply couldn't plonk the same in Harrier/Safari ? Are there any technical limitations for the same ?

It would not have met BS-VI and BS-VI.2 emission criteria.

Originally Posted by DicKy

Even though TATA has done two facelifts the useless Grand Floor centre console remains the same.

They cannot change that. Maybe aesthetcis can be changed, but the height and dimensions will remain the same as it covers the handbrake & EPB, (where applicable), integration as well as the gearshift lever control mechanism underneath. Also, you cannot "flatten" the centre tunnel as the exhaust line lies beneath.

[Venkatesh.C]

How much reuse is too much? Is it a case of experience fatigue? Similar to what one experiences when going from iPhone 13 to iPhone 16 with great excitement only to discover 5 minutes into using it, its the exact same experience as the iPhone 13's. With a few shiny party tricks thrown in. Of course, the cameras would be better, battery would last longer, screen might be bigger. But the usage experience thanks to the OS is just too familiar and that 'excitement' quickly dies 5 minutes into unboxing.
Is this similar? Bigger , better, longer lasting car. But exact same interiors(same switches/same dashboard console, same gear lever, etc.,)

[TheStoryweaver]

It’s a comprehensive analysis, and I’d like to add a few pointers based on my observations about the car. I was among the few who were seriously considering bringing this car home. From its time as a concept to the production model, I’ve noted a few points in favor of the statements in the thread and a few against them.

The Curvv was meant to be TATA’s entry into the above-4m segment with a unique proposition and a big impact. Tata Motors went all out to maintain the hype, and since its showcase at the expo, the car garnered a lot of attention. However, till now, they haven’t been able to capitalize on that hype effectively.

Curvv was envisioned as the poster boy for TATA’s new family design language. At first, the design felt fresh, beautiful, and seamless. However, other models adopted the same design language before the Curvv launch, and over time, the design lost its novelty. If the Curvv had been the first car to debut with this design language, it would have made a bigger impact. While the design isn’t bad, it’s no longer as unique or striking as it could have been.

It seems TATA rushed the launch because of Basalt’s impending arrival. If Basalt weren’t incoming, TATA likely would have delayed the ICE variant’s launch. Even now, 2.5 months post-launch, the situation remains unclear: dealers are still clueless, test cars for the new engine aren’t available, and some showrooms don’t even have display units.

The pricing strategy for the ICE variants also feels poorly executed. As correctly pointed out, the premium for the new Hyperion engine is steep—around ₹1.3 lakhs higher. In contrast, the diesel variant is priced more competitively and makes more sense at the current price point.

Another major drawback is the lack of real-world feedback on the car. So far, there are no practical ownership experiences ( ICE version)—only reviews by auto journalists. Potential buyers are left uncertain about whether they should wait or pass on the car. Mahindra handled this better with the Thar Roxx, offering timely reviews and ensuring demo vehicles were widely available.

Regarding the parts shared with Nexon, I don’t see this as a significant issue. Shared components help reduce costs. However, the cost benefits haven’t been passed on to consumers yet. If TATA makes a price correction, this criticism will likely fade away.

If the Curvv is eventually equipped with a new 1.5 TGDI engine, it could have the potential to compete with major players. For now, however, competing with segment leaders is challenging due to TATA’s persistent issues with after-sales service (ASS) and quality control (QC).

What could work in Curvv’s favor is its unique design—if paired with a lucrative price correction. This could allow the car to carve out its space in a specific price bracket within the 4.3m segment.

In few months we shall know how the product matures and how TATA handles it’s shortcomings.

[arjab]

I spent the last weekend driving a close relative's CURVV. We went for a quick round trip of around 500 kms which consisted of expressways, local single lane roads, undivided highways,(albeit smooth and with some nice flowing curves). Our car was a manual transmission variant equipped with the new direct injection gasoline engine.

The CURVV will satisfy 80% of potential owners requirement. The remaining 20% driving enthusiasts may feel a bit left out.
From a pure personal point of view:
The Curvv is a good highway cruiser. Sure footed, stable, comfortable, refined, (although I found road noise levels to be slightly on the higher side) and reasonably economical.

I did not feel that it is an "enthusiasts car". To me the car felt ponderous and lacked the "flick-ability" which is such an important ingredient separating a good driver's car from the not so good one's.
It is not the steering, which is feelsome enough, although not terrifically so, but the way the portly Curvv transitions its weight across and between the axles, when tackling a series of flowing back to back curvy, (pun intended), roads. I also had this strange feeling of a experiencing a pendulum like motion from the rear of the Curvv, particularly on a couple of occassions when the vehicle, attempted to tackle a mid corner dip.
Add to that a long throw gearshift gate and an engine with quite a high "flywheel" effect, not allowing the revs to fall quickly enough, to execute that smooth "blip-the-throttle-dip-the-clutch-slot-the-ratio" gearchange. All sums up to paint a picture that the Curvv is not a car to be hustled along the twisties.
In fact, however sacriligeous, it may sound, my 6-year old Nexon manual feels nippier around the bends!

The interiors feel nice, the cabin has a lot of contents and features and feels well bolted together. Perceived quality is nice and one can see TML's genuine hard work in this department to up the "in-cabin" premium quotient for its customers.

But will I buy one? Probably not. My old Nexon offers me better occupant packaging and superior handling. In the same segment, I would choose the Citroen Basalt or even the C3 Aircross for its wonderfully fluid chassis balance, strong engines and clickety-clack gearshift feel. Or may be even move a segment down and pick up Tata's own ALTROZ, possibly the most under-rated hatchback in India, in diesel guise.

All the best to the Curvv.

[TurboBiryani]

In general with TaMo, I have the same opinion. If I look at the car manufacturers in the market, I find that each have a USP or building around a USP.

- MSIL never diluted their mileage angle and toping sales chart for the same reason from eternity
- Hyundai Kia never diluted their features and bag for a buck quality offering from the age of i10
- Toyota is marketing, building, and selling only on reliability angle. doesn't even care to give a sunroof in 50Lakh worth cars.
- VW/Skoda is marketing their "German engineering" and driving dynamics.
- Mahindra is building only SUVs on the engine power and enthusiast loving specs as their USP.

Now TaMo tried to make 2 things their USP,

1) Desh ka loha
2) Safety

All manufacturers including MSIL now, picked it up. Most manufacturers have 5 star rated products now.

I fail to identify a single USP in the entire TaMo line. In the case of design, I still see the remains of Indica design language in all the TaMo offerings.

[JediKnight]

Saw a brand new curvv parked in my office parking. I have not driven the car so my opinions are purely on how the car looks and are purely subjective. I would say it looks weird and not in a good way. This was a white specimen with black cladding all around. Has a cheap aftermarket jugaad look to it, with raised suspension. Huge wheels with tiny discs make it look even worse.

[Guna]

SUV Coupes score high on style/image but low on the utility/practicality. This works well for the luxury brands as the owner's of these cars have other SUVs/MUVs in their garage when they really need to carry 4/5 adults in comfort. But that is not the case with Creta/XUV 700 segment where this car needs to be an allrounder. I expect very moderate success for the likes of Curvv and the upcoming Mahindra SUVs (based on born EVs) at best.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by arjab

They cannot change that. Maybe aesthetcis can be changed, but the height and dimensions will remain the same as it covers the handbrake & EPB, (where applicable), integration as well as the gearshift lever control mechanism underneath. Also, you cannot "flatten" the centre tunnel as the exhaust line lies beneath.

Erm... Not sure how much high the centre tunnel is in a high riding FWD car that they couldn't utilise the space.

There is no space to speak of in front of the gearlever. In the lower variants there is no armrest, but there is useable cupholders and storage spaces behind the gearlever. In the topmost variants space is wasted by a wireless charger that cannot be folded away rendering all the space below as useless. Even in the pre facelift, the topmost variant had a sliding shutter to close and open the storage space, but the space had lots of corrugation (presumably to have some storage options/trays which never came) though it was deep. Then again, in the new EV variants with EPB, it is just a slab of plastic that houses the gear selector, drive mode selector, EPB button and a wirless charger holder. Thats it. You would have to open the armrest to put away your phone or keys or keep them inside your pocket.

[kaps454]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Very well compiled article. IMO Curvv is currently the weakest car in the entire 4.3 metre segment.

Except a potentially good/unique design (considering its subjective), I don't see any point going for Curvv.

Does it have the most premium interiors? No, the Koreans do.
Does it have the most spacious interiors? No, infact the least spacious interior and this is a shocker considering its a TATA.
Is it the most comfortable car? Easily not due to the cramped rear (low headroom and high floor).
Does it have the best performing engine? No, the Koreans and Germans do.
Does it have the best NVH? No, again the Koreans do it. Even MG's Astor has fabulous NVH.
Does it have the most feature loaded cabin? It comes close, but Seltos wins this one.
Does it have the best gearboxes? On paper it has DCT but the European/Korean implementation is far better. Heck their ATs are better than this DCT.

Then there are the infamous Tata Niggles and horrifying after sales.

Also the Nexon itself is a better product than Curvv considering overall comfort offered by the car.

Curvv has a very very niche target customer who would only want to standout with the Coupe design and is only a front seat user. I feel after initial few months this car would flop.

It might not have the best (and answers to the best are mostly cliches) of everything, but does it have enough of what most people want to make them shell out the money asked for it?

And the DCT is much better than AMTs I have driven in Hyundai and Maruti cars. I guess it is worth the premium (about a lakh viz a viz the AMT 20-30 K or so)

And my personal car buying list starts with a budget (I'm middle class) and then safety rating (not airbags, that is immaterial if the whole dashboard moves into you). That excludes a whole list of specifically made for India cars. That is no where there in the list of yours, so different people have different priorities (the reason for made for India cars in the first place). That puts Tata/Mahindra cars near the top as other companies means shelling out significantly more for safety and features. I can't buy the Creta (not safe enough) and need to shell out more for the Tuscon, so ended up with the Harrier (which, by the way, has a Tuscon TQ)

As for service centers, hit or miss for most. We have had problems with Nexa (have a top end TQ XL6, bought against my advice as a cheap 6 people mover needed) and Honda (civic), Dad's first car was a Civic Shuttle (then a tiny hatch) so the badge has sentimental values for him.

regards, Kaps454

[07CR]

Originally Posted by kaps454

And the DCT is much better than AMTs I have driven in Hyundai and Maruti cars. I guess it is worth the premium (about a lakh viz a viz the AMT 20-30 K or so)

The fact that you are comparing Curvv's DCT with a AMT shows how bad that particular DCT is! None of the cars in this segment come equipped with a AMT.

Originally Posted by kaps454

And my personal car buying list starts with a budget (I'm middle class) and then safety rating (not airbags, that is immaterial if the whole dashboard moves into you). That excludes a whole list of specifically made for India cars. That is no where there in the list of yours, so different people have different priorities (the reason for made for India cars in the first place). That puts Tata/Mahindra cars near the top as other companies means shelling out significantly more for safety and features. I can't buy the Creta (not safe enough) and need to shell out more for the Tuscon, so ended up with the Harrier (which, by the way, has a Tuscon TQ)

Reasons for me to not considering safety in above parameters-
Safety goes long than crash test safety. The amount of reports of Nexons toppling over, or the random gearbox failures in Tata's puts any NCAP rating out of the windows. Sure the cases are not common, but so is the chance of an accident occurring. Just like we say what if you are one of the unlucky one's to have a crash in a poorly rated car, what if you are also one of the unlucky to have a crash due to the infamous QC of Tata?

As has been pointed out in numerous articles are we sure the GNCAP ratings process are reliable?
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/global...iable-are-they
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/loopho...h-test-results
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...-loophole.html (Global NCAP's absurd loophole)

Originally Posted by kaps454

As for service centers, hit or miss for most. We have had problems with Nexa (have a top end TQ XL6, bought against my advice as a cheap 6 people mover needed) and Honda (civic), Dad's first car was a Civic Shuttle (then a tiny hatch) so the badge has sentimental values for him.

Sure the service centres and service experience too can be dicey for any brand. But the ratio of unsatisfactory service heavily tilts in Tata favour, by sheer number of posts we see week in week out on our very own team bhp forum.

[kaps454]

Originally Posted by 07CR

The fact that you are comparing Curvv's DCT with a AMT shows how bad that particular DCT is! None of the cars in this segment come equipped with a AMT.

My bad, misread AT as AMT, which is why I compared it. The only DCT I have driven for an extended period apart from Tata's is VW DSG, on the Polo super hatch variant.

I recall no difference. The Polo had a much peppier engine for the vehicle weight, but the transmission was equally smooth for both.

As for hypothetical reasons for not including a star rating because the vehicle is unsafe due to manufacturing defects, they are just that, hypothetical. I can't think of any that caused an accident from the top of my head other than a post on this website of someone who unfortunately lost a limb in a Mahindra ScorpioN. Most accidents are caused by a combination of factors, the chief being people involved.
Not including the safety of the vehicle as point is just that, most people not bothered with it and that is fine with me. It is an important point for me and that is why Tata figures on my shortlist, no other reason. The Harrier purchase was explained for that point to get across.

regards kaps454

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by CentreOfGravity

Attachment 2683510

Do chime in with your thoughts on this matter. Cheers!

A stimulating write-up indeed! I'll try to put some views quickly.

Using ATLAS platform instead of ALFA and OMEGA
Something is going on here at Tata motors. They have made a statement that all SUVs will be using ATLAS platform going forward (upto 4.6m). So, it seems like the ALFA platform either had some limitations with scaling, or, ALFA platform will focus on lightweight hatchbacks and sub-4 meter cars going forward. Also, the ATLAS platform looks well suited for bigger capacity battery EV.

Curvv looks the same as Nexon
While it may make sense for cars from different segments to have a differentiating factor, the problem with bringing new designs for each car means delays in launching a product, increase in cost (due to less part sharing), plus the risk of initial niggles. Tata had the engines, gearbox ready, it would make more sense to bring the product quickly to the market.
Many car companies do this. And it works.

I recently did a test drive of Renault Scenic EV in the U.K, and here is their line-up, tell me if any car looks different from the front. (The Austral and Arkana are on a different platform)


Curvv Interiors = Nexon Interiors
Tata could have done something different here, but apart from the materials used, the cars give exact same feeling on the inside. I feel Tata didn't try to fix something that is not broken. The Nexon's interiors look awesome to start with, are just about a year old, are nicely done (fit and finish), and look premium compared to the Citroen Basalt which look at least a generation older if not two. If a person sitting inside gets a premium feel with the Curvv, it has to do with the design as well as the materials used, which is impressive. Again, I would not call out Tata for this. I can use the Renault Captur and Symbioz analogy here, they belong to two different segments (or lifestyles), yet use the exact same dashboard layout, same for the Megane and Scenic.

I disagree with the point where the OP says design sharing works in lower segments. Renault has been the highest seller in EU region in the last few quarters, all their cars share similar designs. Check out the Peugeot 208 and 2008 as well, both segments apart, having same dashboard and front face, only different bumpers because the increased height of SUV



Curvv's ICE powertrains are not a match for Koreans/Germans
Agreed, but if they do get the job done, I don't see any reason to reject the Curvv just because the engines are not punchy enough. Tata goofed up on Petrol engines big time and that has been their weakest point. They got the Ingenium petrol engine tech from JLR, which uses expensive materials and hence cannot be used in mass market cars. Mahindra did a masterstroke by getting the Ssangyong TGDi petrol engine tech. Having said that, I had done a test drive of the Nexon petrol back in 2019, and found the engine good enough for usual commutes.

Curvv is expensive
Tata will start offering discounts soon. I too feel the car is a bit overpriced.

At the end of the day, as GTO mentioned, if the car feels good when sitting inside and drives just fine, that is all that matters for most owners. From a sales perspective, if someone walks in with a pre-determined goal of booking a Nexon and the sales person says 'Look, for a lakh, thirty thousand rupees more, you get a bigger boot, little more leg room, some other cool features like the door handles and premium stitching seats etc' and the customer converts, it is a win-win situation for all. The Salesperson, customer and Tata motors,all go home happy.

After typing all this, I would still ask people to not take anyone's word, just get your bums off the couch and head to the showroom, take a nice long test drive and make a decision

[Sebring]

My 'Mini Landie' steps into its 8th year and got a proper wash/wax yesterday. For the first time - few replacements are in order; The tail gate strut (weakened by itself), gear knob (worn out) and AC air direction knob (which the cleaner broke). Hope the replacements are as good as OE. With Nexon, Tata Motors really put their best foot forward.

The car is reliable, fuss free, economical, solid, 5 STAR Rated - but still I would consider the Curvv for its Diesel Automatic engine and has one of the 'best interiors' in its segment. And no, the Curvv doesn't look like the Indica, from any angle, to me.

[Nithesh_M]

I agree. It was a dumb decision to end the Blackbird project. Bet somebody in the management figured out it is cost effective to just stretch the Nexon a bit and sell it in the Creta segment than build something all new from scratch.