[Razor44]

So , in the last 6 months sale of C2 segment sedans :

Virtus = 9788 units total
Verna = 8188 units
Slavia = 7327 units
and a distant fourth...
City = 5607 units

It seems that Honda has totally lost its plot in this segment with the City averaging only 800-1000 sales monthly.

Although sales of c2 sedans are on a declining trend the downfall of Honda on this front has been quite dramatic. This graph from statista cant be any more revealing. Sad to see the downfall of this once segment topper of many years.Probably Indians dont consider the city as "aspirational" any more. Whats the way forward for Honda? Maybe launch the City hatchback alongside, to start a new C2 hatchback segment in India?

[Aditya]

Volkswagen Virtus is the new king of the C2 Sedan segment | Honda City last - Post copied to a new thread.

[Turbohead]

To be fair, it's the oldest model on the block.

What Honda should do is to try and localise one of their turbocharged engines and develop an alternative to the Creta that can't be ignored like the Elevate. IMO, they know what Indians like - great value which is basically the Creta/Seltos formula like they did with the 4th gen Honda City.

The C2 sedan segment, and I hate to say it, is dead and they should focus their limited budget on the most profitable and hottest segment.

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by Razor44

So , in the last 6 months sale of C2 segment sedans :

Virtus = 9788 units total
Verna = 8188 units
Slavia = 7327 units
and a distant fourth...
City = 5607 units

Honestly the City these days is lacking the excitement factor. Till the 4th gen, City always looked beautiful and attractive. Today it is just bland!

Even in terms of features and engine, until 4 years ago, City used to be the most feature loaded car in that segment with the best engine options!

Today the Verna, City, and Slavia look way more attractive and have lot more tech on offer!

Honda needs to understand that 8-10 years ago, a sedan buyer was just an average Indian who wanted a premium experience. Today, this customer buys Compact SUVs and the sedan buyer of today is buying sedans only because he doesn't want to look like a part of the generic crowd! To attract the crowd, Honda needs to bring back the sportiness that the old cars had. I even as a City owner won't buy a City again but will look at the Verna and Virtus.

Make it look sportier, give it a panoramic sunroof, give it some extravagant screens, and give it a 1.5L Turbo, and it will be back on top in no time. This is exactly what old City generations had! They were sporty, attractive, and had cool tech for their time. Until that happens, the 5th gen City will remain the 2nd worst City ever (Dolphin obviously takes the first spot!)

[gck_tourer]

Honda has an ace in its sleeve in the form of an excellent hybrid engine which can translate into very good numbers if positioned rightly.

However what they lack is intent. They should have started manufacturing the hybrid engine in India long back instead of importing it from Japan resulting in high end cost. The Honda hybrid engine is very smooth, powerful and efficient unlike the crude Toyota hybrid engine which is just efficient. I have heard from Honda City Hybrid owners that part availability for the engine is very low and results in long waiting periods. Now who will buy such expensive cars and wait forever for regular spare parts. It just make sense.

Let's be honest, the NA engine takers in the market are minuscule, they should either get a turbo engine or capitalise on the hybrid which they have already introduced in India. If they manage to localize it in India, the hybrid engine can be introduced in Elevate as well along with some bling to make good numbers.

Virtus has the classic sedan silhouette, excellent 1.5 turbo engine and clean handling for the enthusiasts. All it has to do up the quality of interiors and introduce more features to stay in the game as a leader for long time to come. However, Volkswagen has to look at introducing Hybrid or Diesel engines in their line up for India if they want to up their sales. I would also love to see the AT plus 1.5 turbo combination for city drivers who don't want the hassle of DC transmission.

[aravind.anand]

Honda is yet to try something new with the City since 2008 - back when the 3rd Gen was launched. They still have skinny section rubber, they don't have an exciting RS/GT variant equivalent (which can help build reputation & brand value)

The City still is good. But good is no longer good enough. The Turbo engines have taken this segment by storm already and I have seen so many Virtus 1.5 TSI vs Verna 1.5 Turbo videos by people on Youtube, but there isn't even a mention of the City, which once used to flaunt its i-Vtec against its vanilla competitors.

Its high time that Honda gets serious and brings a very strong City, Elevate and also a sub-4m SUV to fight back.

[greyhound82]

Originally Posted by gck_tourer

If they manage to localize it in India, the hybrid engine can be introduced in Elevate as well along with some bling to make good numbers.

Verna lost its charm due to its polarizing shape, even though the engines, features, crash rating and after sales are good.

VW always has that aura around it, as acquiring a German car is seen as a middle-class dream, even though the after-sales service is not up to the mark.

For someone who drives a lot, the Honda hybrid is a no-nonsense choice

[ron178]

There are a lot of things Honda can do to revive interest in the City but the best one I can think of in the short term is investing in GNCAP testing. This is one card Honda has never played even when they could (Jazz, Amaze). Emphasis on the G as public trust in BNCAP still seems to be low.

[Miel]

Originally Posted by Razor44

So , in the last 6 months sale of C2 segment sedans :

Virtus = 9788 units total
Verna = 8188 units
Slavia = 7327 units
and a distant fourth...
City = 5607 units

In fact, Škoda Auto Volkswagen India's Virtus and Slavia are 90% the same car. So, then the more thorough insight into this data is as follows.



The market leadership from a business angle is far greater for the VW group sedan - 55%. Personally too, the VW-Škoda twins are better looking, though the Verna's Turbo-Petrol is a scorcher! The Honda is the aging uncle here.

In my book, the current 5th gen City is not as cool looking as the 3rd or 1st gen models. The City's 1.5 NA engine is the more robust and reliable in the long run (read, 15 years plus), but for pedal-to-metal enthusiasts the smiles the VW-Škoda twins provide are far greater per mile.


Not to go off-topic, but isn't the Honda Elevate too having a similar or worse market share in its segment?

[GTO]

The Honda City is the ultimate "you cannot go wrong with me" car in the C2-sedan segment. It's all-rounded, does most things well and has proven / old technology that is reliable.

That being said:

- In 2022, it was regularly doing ~3000 cars a month which is very respectable for a sedan in an SUV world

- In 2023, its sales average dropped to ~1900 cars a month

- Once the Honda Elevate was launched, the Honda City received a body blow. Thanks to a crossover sibling that offers the same advantages, but with higher GC + taller seating + SUV'ish styling, the City dropped to 3-digit sales in many months, and was barely able to stay above the 1000 mark in other months.

- The Elevate murdered the City. But there are also other factors = customers want the latest technology & design (even the Elevate is now suffering due to its more traditional offering), the City is very old and Honda didn't play the "hybrid" card to its advantage.

IMHO, a well-priced Hybrid could have been the gamechanging differentiator for the Elevate & City. You know how excited your neighbour gets when he buys a car giving 18 kmpl in the city!

Honda really needs fresher designs, more technology & a wider model range. Best way to sum up their product range today is "boring", whereas customers in the 15-25 lakh segment are demanding "exciting".

[VRSriram]

Even Elevate is down the hill for that matter as it shares the same engine and bland features. City has become like Ciaz. Honda management which has no commitment to India still does not seem fit to introduce hybrid in Elevate or bring new technology.

[peugeot96]

With 17000 units sold in six months Skoda/VW may still walk away from the sedan segment in India if the Mahindra tie up reports are to believed

The profitability per cars sold must be really poor for this to happen.

[somersault]

I was a loyal City owner for 10 years and recently moved to Skoda Kodiaq 2.0 TSI.

Why I did not consider City or Honda brand again for upgrade.

1. Same engine since ages. I do not see any other engine which is powerful enough. Hybrid is designed for fuel efficiency, not for power. Same way Camry does not excite me.

2. No option to upgrade which looks like a major upgrade within the brand. There are no proper upgrades like Civic, Accord or CR-V available in India with bigger engines. Not to mention the Turbo options.

In case of City, mostly old City users are the buyers. There are about 7 lakhs old city users in India. Honda has failed them with nothing exciting to offer.

[GoBabyGo]

Hi, we don't just buy the Cars or SUVs, we buy the experience and perception. There is no fault with Honda sedan & SUV. Problem is Hyundai, Kia & Skoda-Volkswagen improved their engines so well that iVtech is no more the benchmark in Performance (which was not the case 5-7 years ago), Economy & Reliability.

Other problem which I see is the positioning. Honda is as reliable as Toyota in India and still hold very high perception amongst the buyers, however, City & Elevate are surrounded by other equally excellent products which are getting updated every now & then with more features at same or less price.

Probably Honda India understand that whatever they do, they can not get more than 3% to 4% market share in India. To achieve 3% to 4% market share, they need huge investment in India, may be 5000 cr. or more. Their production capacity is around 20000 vehicles per month (including exports) so even if they invest 5000 cr. in India, their chances of getting more than 3% market share is very slim.

I don't think Honda Cars India revival is possible in India, whatever they do. They will remain max 2% market share player in India, as long as they are here.

[tsi_niks1989]

VW should thank Skoda and the legend Polo for helping Virtus reach the segment lead. Since Skoda was first to launch both Kushaq and Slavia, it helped VW iron out all the niggles that were reported in the Skoda alternative. The EPC issues got very bad marketing for Kushaq, we heard very less issues with the Taigun. Lot of Polo customers (including me) after driving other cars from the segment find it difficult to upgrade to the alternatives as that sorted drive feels missing. Even if we ignore the looks of the Verna, the engine might have a 10 bhp advantage from the VW twins but the overall driving experience feels disconnected.

Similarly the design elements for the interiors chosen for Kushaq/Slavia also helped VW. We have a Kushaq TSI MT and a Virtus GT, even though we have tried to get the rattles fixed from the service center, the Kushaq still rattles. The protruding infotainment system and the strip going across the dashboard does not feel premium, it is flimsy and adds to the creaks. The GT interior on the other hand has the embedded infotainment, does not rattle and feels premium. This is after completing approx 20k KMs in both the cars.

All the 2.0 cars have proven on the fuel efficiency front, I keep getting 18+ KMPL with the GT on highways, Pune-Mumbai drives often result in 20-22 KMPL and for a petrol engine with 148 bhp that is very satisfying. Except the quality of the interior plastics and moderate performance of AC, I don't see any negative about these cars.

Coming to the Honda, City needs an upgrade mechanically. Until that happens, even these numbers would be difficult to maintain.