[GreyNomad]

I brought the 1.5 DSG Slavia home two and a half weeks ago. I had already decided on the sedan body type and in my budget, the only options were the Slavia, Virtus and Verna. Didn't consider the City, though a friend did bring up the hybrid as an option. Didn’t even think of Ciaz. Test drove the first 3 cars and while the Verna had the most explosive performance (try the S mode to believe it) the Germans looked and felt the better package overall. Slavia rides ever so slightly less stiffer than the Virtus and hence found it more comfortable.

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

While these numbers are good when we compare the sales per showrooms, the sales numbers are not directly dependent on the number of show rooms. Actually, it is the other way - companies establish more showrooms when the sales number increases.

Otherwise, a reasonably good car can be a super hit if the company open 10K showrooms in the country. But is that happening? No way!

The fact is, if the people want a car, they will buy it from whatever less number of showrooms.

170 is a good number - an average 6 showrooms per state. Much better than just one or two showrooms in a vast country.

Agree with this! Too much value is given to touchpoints for the success of a car.

Originally Posted by tsi_niks1989

So if a VW showroom is 100-200kms from my home (which they are in many cases with just 170 touchpoints in the country) and a couple of Maruti/Hyundai/Honda showrooms are 20-30kms away, will I even give Virtus a thought? No.

Buying a car is one thing and keeping it is another, if a brand sales and service is not available in nearby area one would be skeptical about purchasing any vehicle from them no matter how good the product might be. Number of outlets is an important factor for every brand and the statistics should be seen against them.

VW has been in India for almost 15 years now. If 170 is what they have opened so far, then it is on them and there is no need to defend these numbers.

PS: I own a Polo and am looking at Virtus/Slavia as my next car.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by anshumandun

Don't they already have a turbo charged engine in the City in other countries?

The 1.0l turbo is a compliance engine, Would anyday choose the 1.5l NA over the 1.0l turbo. Would need the 1.5l turbo to really make a difference.

Originally Posted by Razor44

Exactly what came to my mind. They do sell a Honda City RS hatchback in several Asian countries albeit with the same engine.

The City hatchback was launched for those markets where the new Jazz was deemed too expensive. But it is too long to fit into india's sub 4m criteria. So even with 1.0l or 1.5l, it will be fully taxed like the City.

Ofcourse it looks good, but not sure if Honda India would bother to make it here, when they took ages to even launch the Elevate.

[tsi_niks1989]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

VW has been in India for almost 15 years now. If 170 is what they have opened so far, then it is on them and there is no need to defend these numbers.

PS: I own a Polo and am looking at Virtus/Slavia as my next car.

Nobody is defending anyone, just stating factual data. If we present one data then other data also needs to be presented.

VW India not opening more number of showrooms based on the demand available is good for them to sustain, Ford went through the same exercise and had around 500 plus outlets before they were forced to shut shop.

You being a prospective buyer does not help change the data available .

Happy motoring .

[Elevate2024]

The whole C2 sedan segment is a dying segment. The whole segment sells less than 2% of total cars sold in a month. Despite leading the segment, nobody can say they are reviving the segment. The latest trend of coupe design can turn the tide towards sedans again but even that possibility is a bleak one.

[Amsdoc]

The Virtus is a superb looking car. That plus the perceived better after-sales service than Skoda (primarily based on historical perspectives) I think pushed the Virtus over the Slavia.

The Verna is just too polarising for most despite its supposedly great engine. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

The City is just too long in the tooth. Looks boring (better than a few previous versions though), has boring engines and interiors. They have flogged the dead horse to saturation. Whoever buys it is mostly for its reliability and generally are old honda customers. Which is very sad as Honda has the capacity for making some stonking cars! The 1.5 L NA has been running the mill for too long and Honda really needs something different now.

They still make the Ciaz? You hardly see it on road these days.

So the figures are as they say, proof of the pudding. Skoda/VW worked at refreshing the segment and that has paid off. Honda/Maruti didn't, so have lagged behind. Hyundai have tried and kudos for that but need a new designer!

[LordSharan]

I own a Honda City (5th Gen), and it's a wonderful car. There are nuances that you realize only when you sit in a different car, that City scores so much over the others. If I look at the current crop of sedans, there's none in the segment (and one over) that will offer me a proper upgrade in terms of features, space and refinement. I may have to upgrade to germans if I'm looking for a proper one.

There are features that make life so much more easier (doors lock when I walk away from car, all four auto up and down windows, acres of space in cabin and boot, sorted suspension) and sorted mechanicals (bulletproof and sweet revving engine). Having owned this car for 3.5 years, I now have a insight into Honda fans - why the brand and the model has a cult following.

Where the city fails is desirability - most of the features are not good enough to make it desirable for someone willing to buy the car, and till people do not buy the car - they won't ever get to experience the goodness.

So unless Honda works on this aspect and here are some features to consider: better infotainment, ventilated seats, more engine power and a suspension that allows the power to be harnessed; City will never come up in desirabilily quotient and we would continue to see the sales figures as we see now.

Virtus, Verna and Slavia show how the game has moved forward and Honda needs to take a lesson from them to give an opportunity to City to reclaim it's former glory.

[sam_sant2005]

Originally Posted by 1.2TSI7DSG

It depends on the target segment.

Virtus is a good change for people coming through Hyundai's & Maruti's (a very large segment). As a gen VW 1.0 owner, I wouldn't say I liked the design, touch feel & even the 1.5 TSI didn't excite me at all.

I am a bit surprised by your comment on 1.5 TSI not exciting you! What do you drive currently? I owned the GT for a brief 6 months before moving to a 2023 Fortuner 4x4 AT and during that short period is when I did a 5000km solo drive which included 1100+ kms per day driving and GT even kept up easily with the BMWs and the Mercs on the highways (which none of my past cars were able to do which included the Crysta 2.8 AT, a 2019 Fortuner AT, Altis, XUV500 and more).

It was a pleasure to see BMW and Merc owners awe seeing the GT take off. I dont encourage high speeds, but GT is made for it. So again, repeating my question, what makes you unexcited with those 150 horses and 250nm torque.

Given a chance, I would buy the GT again.

[aniketi]

German twins are surely winner here but customers won't in long run. German cars are prone to failures and their long term reliability in Indian conditions is still questionable. Also their service costs make huge hole in pocket if something goes wrong whereas City can give peace of mind for its users for years without any issues.

When in it comes about looks, IMO City still looks better than German twins. This is strictly my personal opinion and others can find Germans better. If I am in market today for sedan, I will go eyes closed for Honda City.

[Chisels121]

Originally Posted by aniketi

German twins are surely winner here but customers won't in long run. German cars are prone to failures and their long term reliability in Indian conditions is still questionable. Also their service costs make huge hole in pocket if something goes wrong whereas City can give peace of mind for its users for years without any issues.

When in it comes about looks, IMO City still looks better than German twins. This is strictly my personal opinion and others can find Germans better. If I am in market today for sedan, I will go eyes closed for Honda City.

Nah sir that day is long gone, most buyers of VW and Skoda already know that these cars will be atleast 30% more expensive to maintain than their Japanese counterparts but they buy it because the city is simply yawn-inducing for an under 40 year old guy or gal as they get only excited by the good ol' Civic in the Honda lineup.The main problem in the City is the lack of a good infotainment system and NVH ,otherwise that engine is still pretty good and can easily outrun the 1L TSI

[Hayek]

I get amazed that we are having a debate about the City in 2024. In 2012 when I was replacing my Getz, City was clearly inferior to the 1.6 l NA petrol automatic Vento. Since then, the City has stagnated while the rivals have improved leaps and bounds. It is a testament to Honda’s brand image that they are still able to sell this car.

[GeeTee TSI]

Looking back at the previous City generations, the 3rd generation looked striking and modern (still does!). It is quite surprising how it got toned down in progressive generations with the current one just unremarkable to my eyes. Add a stagnant drivetrain to that and there is little going by way of appeal.

[funnysaltbrick]

Honda had hit a plateau with the downfall of the Brio chassis of products, it was just not what the consumer was looking for at the time and historically, Honda has always been a smaller organisation than the likes of Nissan and Toyota and even Subaru/Mazda with their linkages to Fuji Heavy Industries. And their focus is on motorcycles and other powerplant efforts, predominantly. So this means that Honda cars do not get a lot of budget to play with. Now in that small pot, they have to feed India.

And India isn't as cut-piece-solutions oriented as the South-east Asian market where these brands do decent numbers. And they keep citing the tax system and poor roads as blame. While it is a reasonable friction point, Honda keeps forgetting that they were in a JV with Hero Motocorp for 25+ years and was functional in India since the 90's. You're telling me in that half a decade, they learnt nothing about the laws or the conditions to adapt and develop?

Coming to the City itself, it's a victim of it's own success as there is nothing of substance in the product itself and the only people who seemingly care are those who want something safe and non-problematic. And that's a line that's getting thinner with the Germans and Koreans getting better with each passing day, while offering significantly higher tiers of running gear.

If Honda really wants the City to do numbers again, the platform needs to be upscaled with a new powerplant that isn't 20 years old, with options for a Turbo motor as well, making it less "safe and vanilla" as this car is Honda India's halo product, being the longest standing nameplate in the industry. And the interiors need a desperate update as well. So a lot of homework for Honda to due. Hopefully they get to it soon or it'll be one (1) car competing from the Honda stables.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I get amazed that we are having a debate about the City in 2024. In 2012 when I was replacing my Getz, City was clearly inferior to the 1.6 l NA petrol automatic Vento. Since then, the City has stagnated while the rivals have improved leaps and bounds. It is a testament to Honda’s brand image that they are still able to sell this car.

Exactly my point. I had shortlisted City and Fiesta 1.6s in 2010, one test drive back to back closed the deal on Fiesta. While City was slightly faster than Fiesta then (only engine performance) nothing has majorly changed since then. City has only become more boring in these years. I would happily pick VAG twins 1.0 over 1.5 iVTEC for highway drives as the former does better. And then I am not getting in to the ride and handling, high speed stability etc. So as someone else mentioned, the sedan segment is first of all minority and most of the buyers in this segment look for fun to drive, better engine etc. Hence no surprise the City numbers are declining, and those who want a Honda and non-nonsense car will go for Elevate.

[fhdowntheline]

As a 3 time owner of C-segment sedans (Linea T-Jet, Honda City and now Verna DCT), I can make a few comments:

1) As GTO says, the City is a no-nonsense car. Except an iffy ICE(for the time-2018), there was nothing that gave me any issues mechanically. Even my Polo had the odd rattle or two, but not the City. It is low slung, comfortable and deceptively fast when starting from standstill. But when you have to really propel it, the in-gear acceleration falls short of the turbo engine rivals. And while you can drive it in a calibrated manner, it lacks a certain man-machine feel that only drivers who live to drive can experience. It is a perfect urban car (as evidenced by its name).

2) The handling is good (gen 4 chassis felt very agile) but the ride is ok, and a tad skittish at high speeds especially with the 185mm rubber. The Verna for instance, has that "big car" feel and feels fairly balanced at high speed. Never felt uncomfortable at 100 kph. The ample power reserve helps maintain that confidence as well.

3) Rivals (Verna) offer equal space on the inside, a bit more boot space and virtually the same or better features.

PS Given the indifference from the company, I hope Honda is not planning to kill off the City brand in India and focus only on SUVs. That would be a sad day.