[Sri0030]

The new "CAMRY" costs a whopping 60 lakhs On-Road in Hyderabad. D2 segment sedans are being priced at an exorbitant rates even when the demand for sedans is declining at a faster pace.

Not only just D2 sedans, Automobile companies are somehow least interested to support and make the entire sedan segment grow again. Which is very sad to see for Auto enthusiasts, like us.


Here is my observation:

MS Kizashi - Stopped
Honda Civic - Stopped
Honda Accord - Stopped
Hyundai Elantra - Stopped
Hyundai Sonata - Stopped
Skoda Octavia - Stopped
VW Jetta - Stopped
VW Passat - Stopped
VW Ameo - Stopped
Nissan Sunny - Stopped
Toyota Etios - Stopped
Toyota Yaris - Stopped
Toyota Corolla - Stopped
Renault Fluence - Stopped
Renault Scala - Stopped
Chevy Cruze - Brand winded up
Ford Aspire - Brand winded up
Ford Fiesta - Brand winded up
Fiat Linea - Brand winded up
Skoda Superb - Which is on sale now - High price
All new Toyota Camry - Which is on sale now - High price
MS Ciaz - Which is on sale now - No generational update since a long time
Honda City - Which is on sale now - Too boring and quality degraded a lot now
Tata Tigor - Which is on sale now - Half baked product
Hyundai Aura - Which is on sale now - Not successful for repeating the same Xcent mistakes
MS Dzire - Which is on sale now - Caters to taxi market


Only worthy options left IMO are Hyundai Verna, Skoda Slavia and VW virtus in this dying segment. Where All three belongs to C2.

Sorry if I forgot to mention any.

I'm not including the big luxury car makers here, Since that's a different case altogether.

[Starwar19]

I’ve seen many previous-generation Camrys on the streets of Mumbai and Pune. A lot of businessmen and industrialists use them as their daily commuters. The opulence and comfort that the Camry offers is unmatched. If you observe closely, there is a loyal fan base that sticks to the Camry, upgrading with each new generation, much like the Innova. However, the number of Camry owners is fewer compared to the Innova.

I believe Toyota will sell decent numbers of this updated generation, similar to the Carnival. I was initially skeptical about the Carnival after the price reveal, but to my surprise, I’ve seen several on the roads. I also read that Kia has a waiting list for the new Carnival and that it’s almost sold out for the year.

Toyota has really improved the interiors, addressing the areas that were lacking. I absolutely loved the updated version and hope to own one very soon.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by CapKoura

It’s a shame that Toyota exploit their brand value in India and continue to sell extremely mediocre interiors at a premium.

We are talking about a brand that has built up a reputation for dependability for over 50 years. Not just in India. World over.

The car in question has built up a reputation Globally for its Quality & Reliability. It has never been the benchmark for Luxury. Ever. No Toyota has.

I don't think a Skoda buyer is ever going to look at a Camry and the inverse holds equally true. The purpose behind these cars are totally different.

If you look at it from a Global perspective, every iteration of the Honda Accord (The Camry's main rival) had a far superior interior. Yet, more folks bought a Camry. Not because the Accord was bad. The 'Camry' word just sticks with you.

There is no reason for Toyota to sell this car for cheap. It is a superbly engineered car. In a world where everyone wants to build cars that go fast around every race circuit there is (Toyota included), its a relief to see a car with a proper comfort oriented suspension. I don't know about this generation (Am sure they have not screwed up). The last one glides on the road. It is so quiet on the inside that you have to experience it. It will do that for the next 200,000km. Minimum. There is no other sedan in this world that can do that with consistency. That is why Toyota can charge a premium and get away with it.

[sunilarkt]

Beautiful sedan inside out! I would buy one if I could! Kudos to toyota for sticking with physical buttons

[Quicksilver85]

If one is brand agnostic to the "luxury-badge" tag traditionally associated with the Germans, this makes more sense than buying the entry sedans from the Germans.

Toyota's legendary reliability, lower cost of ownership, better resale value and coupled with hybrid powertrain make a compelling case for this car.

Can anyone tell us, what is the unladen ground clearance of the new model?

Owners of previous gen, could you inform if you faced any issues navigating the speed breakers or ground clearance issues in general?

Cheers,
QS85

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Sri0030

Not only just D2 sedans, Automobile companies are somehow least interested to support and make the entire sedan segment grow again. Which is very sad to see for Auto enthusiasts, like us.

I agree with your perspective. This is something I mentioned earlier as well.

Originally Posted by msdivy

Sedan/Coupe between 20L & 55L (BLR OTR)

Considering Bangalore on the road price, Honda City top end is 20L and the next ICE sedan is 55L (BMW 2 series & Camry). Excluding the only all-electric BYD Seal, there are zero sedans in the 20L to 55L range.

But there are 20+ different ICE CUVs & SUVs in the same range, not counting the variants (Harrier itself has 25 odd variants !).

35L is a wide range without any sedan option. Customers are forced to buy SUVs.

[soarersc300]

Originally Posted by abhisheksahas

In comparison to entry level sedans from the German Trio, the Camry offers
- Approximately 15 lakhs cheaper

Camry is around 60 lacs on road. The german trio entry level sedans (A class, 2 series and A3) don't cost 75 lacs. In fact they cost much lesser than Camry. Even the next segment - A4 costs less than the Camry and 330 Li is just a few lacs more.

The point is if somone is buying a Camry it's for peace of mind ownership and is probably chauffeur driven. For self driving, the german trio offer much more engagement and refinement (especially in the transmission - Camry has a CVT) but obviously at higher running costs than the Camry.

The price alone is the same but the target customer as well as the product itself is as different as there could be.

[daretodream]

Does anyone has a feature list comparison of the India version of Camry to the ones sold in US, Thailand and Indonesia.
I remember discussions on other threads of Camry where several well travelled TeamBHP-ians opined that the model being sold in India is far better than the models in US and Middle East. Specifically, members had opined that the model in Middle East is bare bones but India model was quite feature rich.

I am curious to know where India Camry stands vs its siblings in other countries.

[Tutenkhamen]

I haven't understood one particular thing about a set of engines, Camry's engine being one of them.

Why don't these engines make more torque?
221 NM and that too from a 2.5L 4-pot combined with mild hybrid tech?

Same is with Honda engines. 145NM?
Innova Hycross, 209NM? Thats it?


With that torque / weight ratio, do these cars not feel sluggish to take off on an uphill road?

Turbo's the only variable here?
Why do these cars not provide a turbo considering that Turbos have been around for like forever and they don't necessarily bring with them, any increase in unreliability or complexity.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Tutenkhamen

I haven't understood one particular thing about a set of engines, Camry's engine being one of them.

Why don't these engines make more torque?
221 NM and that too from a 2.5L 4-pot combined with mild hybrid tech?

Same is with Honda engines. 145NM?
Innova Hycross, 209NM? Thats it?


With that torque / weight ratio, do these cars not feel sluggish to take off on an uphill road?

Turbo's the only variable here?

It’s not just that fact that there is no turbo. These engines run on Atkinson cycle which gives relatively weaker performance but much higher fuel efficiency. The torque addition comes from the hybrid motor, it comes in strong and instantly. The combined system is tuned for max efficiency though, not outright performance.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by abhisheksahas

@romeomidhun Could you please elaborate on the cohesion concerns ?

These are some angles / areas where the taut character of the car is missing a bit. But take the grill independently, and it looks good.

[turbowhistle]

Originally Posted by a023624a

I second that. In fact, I’ll go a bit overboard in saying that I really want to see how many of these can Toyota manage to sell given present market offerings and transitionary phase as you highlighted

I also don't get the pricing but most Camry owners are repeat customers/hotel chains who have deep pockets and won't care about the competition or the price tag it comes with.

The pricing strategy in India is seriously flawed and I don't understand at all but every single manufacturer has done the same. I feel Toyota is also expecting 100-200 sales a month after the initial excitement is down which should be good enough for the segment.

[abhisheksahas]

Originally Posted by soarersc300

Camry is around 60 lacs on road. The german trio entry level sedans (A class, 2 series and A3) don't cost 75 lacs. In fact they cost much lesser than Camry. Even the next segment - A4 costs less than the Camry and 330 Li is just a few lacs more.

The 330Li is not "just a few lakhs more"
Here is a comparison of the prices ( from search results), on-road Bangalore
Camry: 59.5L
330 Li: 75.5L
C Class: 76.5L


The point is if somone is buying a Camry it's for peace of mind ownership and is probably chauffeur driven. For self driving, the german trio offer much more engagement and refinement (especially in the transmission - Camry has a CVT) but obviously at higher running costs than the Camry.

The price alone is the same but the target customer as well as the product itself is as different as there could be.

Hey @ soarersc300. I value your opinion and you make a very good point. Nobody buys a Camry to feel adrenaline.

My comparison was the the entry level sedan like the 330 Li, C-Class and the A6 ( depending on the discount offered ). I have no question that these vehicles offer a truly engaging driving experience.

Before I proceed, a couple of points that I would like to make
- The best selling car in Merc's stable is the LWB E-Class, not the economical products.
- The 330Li is offered as a stretched version because Indian consumes prefer that extra comfort.

All of this is because of the reality these vehicles experience is that of a workhorse in congested cities and less of an exciting experience.

This creates a significant overlap in terms of the use case. We are now talking about "a comfortable car" that is offering
- comfortable & spacious
- practical
- feature rich
- promises low running costs ( unless the person is a traffic light racer )
- higher levels of reliability
- lower buying cost

The point I am trying to make is, that the German Trio can no longer take their positions for granted purely as an exciting car to drive. Even the Skoda Superb should not get complacent ( like it's done with its ambitious pricing ).

[abhisheksahas]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

These are some angles / areas where the taut character of the car is missing a bit. But take the grill independently, and it looks good.

Thank you for clarifying. When you mentioned that there were some cohesion concerns from making it a complete car, I didn't quite get it. So as I understand now, it's just the design that seems to lack cohesion

[manpres2]

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