[Rajjaiswal92]

It is funny what goes in our country, I was with a top bureaucrat in Delhi a few weeks ago we started talking about the vehicle scrapping policy.

After a very lengthy discussion as how buying a new car will keep the economy growing blah blah i asked him a very simple question “Sir, have you taken in consideration the ecological footprint a new car leaves compared to a 10 year old car running for 5 more years?” To my surprise he casually replied America thodi hai humara desh (our country isn’t the US of A) we can’t go so deep into calculations of what is the ecological foot print vs 5 more years)”. This is the condition of out country, all big automakers benefited largely from this, our Indian mindset simply tells us to use something until it cannot be repaired again or until its natural life cycle has come to an end, in case of passenger cars it is easily 15-20 years, for car makers this is a nightmare waiting for a potential customer to come every 15-20 years hence this stupid rule is still in place.

If it was for environment the government would have been forcing us to get our PUC certification done and using that same car for as long as possible.

[Dry Ice]

Err, isn’t this already in place outside NCR? A car is registered for 15 yrs and has to get a PUC every 6 months or 1 year (BS4 onwards) to stay “road legal”. After 15 years, the car is evaluated by the RTO for “fitness”, and if it passes, registration is extended for next 5 years. So, what is new in this announcement?

We badly need better enforcement of existing policies, not shiny new schemes. If new schemes have to be launched, I have a suggestion - Reduce the initial registration period to 5 years and mandate a fitness test every 2 years there after to begin with. Offload the fitness tests to 3rd parties, similar to pollution checks. Keep these 3rd parties in check with timely audits, surprise checks and hefty fines for non-compliance.

Ok, I think I have dreamed enough for today, time to get up

[d2krish]

When I read the news article, I was in a dilemma of whether to start a thread on it or to post it in any existing thread. Thanks, Rakesh_r, that you started it. If this becomes true, it would be a logical decision for the Indian auto sector in quite some time. This would be a good solid step forward towards sustainable growth with a greener intent.

We had a bad chapter of whimsical policies implemented and affecting the sector for a long time. Even today as well, we have a really absurd tax structure for cars. Nevertheless, I would look forward to the policymakers coming up with more such logical policies to come up with and scrap not-so-logical ones.

[Samarth 619]

So, you mean to say that if I'm maintaining a BS3 vehicle very well, it becomes less polluting than a slightly lesser maintained BS6 vehicle? This is just illogical. It won't happen, its not designed to happen this way.
Obviously, BS3 will be more polluting than later standards, its pointless going in this direction.

My suggestions are:
1. Ban vehicles based only on year/ models, and don't touch them in the first 15 years. Force owners to sell them outside the state. Make Tiers of cities on this basis. Honour their registration first.
2. Do something about the diesel buses whose smoke is mighty visible, do that first please.
3. The factories and industries in the Delhi NCR region, anything you can do about those smoking chimneys?

Using old vehicles for longer helps in a way that you don't waste energy in producing too many newer units. It is also a good thing in a way. Let vehicles go more expensive, if it saves the industry, nothing wrong with it.

Each succeeding pollution standard reduces pollutants by many many times. When we're reached a good pollution control level, maybe BS8 or 9, I think we should extend vehicle registration to 25 or 30 years. Long term vision should be this.

Gandhi had propagated trusteeship:- Don't consider yourself an owner, consider yourself a trustee who's supposed to be maintaining all machines and things for a longer time, like they've gifts of nature to us. We don't own them, we're trusted with their possession.
Not saying Gandhi was a saint or a perfect person, but its a good habit for all to prolong the lives of machines.

My 2013 Duke 390 is aproaching its 12th year as we speak, and believe me, it still got a lengthy life ahead.

[WorkingGuru]

Can safely say that cars designed in the early 2000s and built upto 2010 were meant to be useable for 30yrs. They were mechanically designed & engineered to operate optimally and last a long time.

Post 2010, car makers went the Nissan way and decided that cars should become mechanically obsolete around the 10-12yr mark itself, they even started adding software & electronics that would become too unviably expensive to fix the following decade.

This step is maybe because all those old ageing Toyota Fortuners owned by the local henchmen who serve the local politician, aren't bringing resale value.

There's no reason that the Govt actually cares about the saving the common junta the capital cost of a car.

[Beemer1077]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

The Government is considering/studying phasing out vehicles based on the emission levels and not the age. If this does get applied, this will bring a major relief to people who have maintained their cars to the "T" but had to let go of owing to the draconian rule.

News as reported in TOI-Pune edition.

https://epaper.indiatimes.com/articl...016_toipuc_TOI

Finally someone with brains is functioning. Emissions matter, not age of the vehicles. I have seen some cars even last 25+ years if taken good care. Furthermore, some level of tuning means they can last long enough.

However, if some cars do not meet certain emission norms, then alternatives are to convert them to other fuel like ethanol, or go electric. These are some initiatives the authorities should do. Not scrap old cars for new ones, unless they are badly beaten up. Old cars aren't like old planes, although for both planes and cars, the engines can be swapped/replaced.

Imagine a 2008 Honda City (dolphin model) with a new engine, which will be a little more on performance. Plus engine swaps also reduces costs in the long terms, especially fuel and engine oil. As such, old school railway locomotives like the WDM series always go through that. So why not this? And besides, those diesel locomotives are quite terrible, since they are not only short on power when pulling 24 rake trains, but also bad on emissions.

[rdhawan15]

In its current form, the entire vehicle scrapping policy is heavily loaded against the middle class.

Presumably, there may be a thought process that people in the country have unhindered access to money to buy or change cars every few years.

France has an optional vehicle scrapping policy.

You can scrap your vehicle (if you want) to get a hydrogen or electric car. The French Government will give discounts to individuals for the new purchase. It also offers incremental benefits to people who have lower income to enable the new vehicle purchase.

Our vehicle scrapping policy has all the elements of providing incentives for the new vehicle purchases on paper. The provisions of the draft make for a compelling read.

1. Scrap Value for the old vehicle given by the scrapping centre, approximately 4-6% of ex-showroom price of a new vehicle.


2. Registration fees to be waived off for purchase of new vehicle against the certificate of deposit - draft notification.
issued

3. Draft rules notified for state governments to offer concession on motor vehicle tax of
• Up to 25% for non-transport vehicles
• Up to 15% for transport vehicles


4. Auto OEMs have been advised to provide 5% discount on purchase of new vehicle against the certificate of deposit.

On paper, this looks lucrative. You can read the provisions in the MORTH policy document on page 22.

However, in the actual situation:

1. No discount on ex-showroom is available by the manufacturer

2. No waiver of registration tax is being provided by the Delhi Government

3. After a nudge by Mr. Gadkari last week, car manufacturers in India started offering scrappage bonus. Only Maruti Suzuki (up to 30000 scrappage bonus) and Nissan (up to 75000 scrappage bonus) have stepped forward with their offers.


4. No options are available to convert diesel vehicles to cleaner fuels such as CNG or Electric. In Delhi, there is no available option to convert to CNG or Electric drive train.

So, the entire cost of scrapping an old vehicle and replacing it with a new vehicle has been passed to the car owner. There is zero-incentive being offered by the Governments and manufacturers on the ground.


I may be wrong with what I have stated today. As of today, this is the best update I have in terms of the current provisions of the Scrapping Policy for vehicles in Delhi NCR.

Pollution

The carbon emissions of diesel vehicles are higher than gasoline engines by 13 percent.

However, the diesel vehicles offer better mileage. For the same distance travelled, you will consume lesser diesel than petrol.

If the concern of pollution is around PM 2.5 particulate emissions, there can be ways to filter the PM 2.5 emissions from the cars. There are multiple technologies available to reduce PM 2.5 emissions of diesel vehicles.

This brings a couple of important issues:

1. The proposed Draft Legislation for vehicle scrapping by the Ministry of Road Transport. assures benefits to the vehicle owners for scrapping and buying a new vehicle. But, these benefits are not being received by the people on the ground.

2. The entire 'Pollution' angle is debatable. A new vehicle manufacturing process adds considerable carbon footprint to the environment. So, the decision to scrap vehicles does not seem to be based on pollution reduction.

And, modern technologies do allow people to reduce PM 2.5 emissions of the vehicle.


The Central Government needs to ensure that the proposed policy is implemented without hassles. The Courts also need to ensure that the vehicle owners get their share of the proposed benefits.

My humble request to the Government would be to:

a) Tweak the policy to allow well-maintained vehicles to pass stringent automated pollution tests. In such tests, there must not be any scope of harakiri.

or

b) Ensure that the proposed benefits to the people are credited to them during new vehicle purchases.

As a middle class person, I have the following 5 reasons to be aggrieved:

1. My pristine condition diesel car with very low mileage has been rendered inoperable in Delhi.

2. For the new vehicle purchase, the stated benefits are not available.

3. There is no scientific basis to remove diesel vehicles of 10 years of age from the road based on pollution. The PARALI burning is a more significant and bigger polluter in Delhi.

4. Conversion of diesel vehicles to CNG or Electric drive trains is not available for the car owners in Delhi. The 'Switch Delhi' campaign website is a fine example of the gaps in this policy's implementation in Delhi.

5. I paid the Road Tax for 15 years. However, by reducing the life of the diesel vehicle from 15 years to 10 years, the additional tax element should have been refunded or adjusted in the new vehicle purchase.

All this makes me feel that I am a sacrificial lamb for the Government with no recourse left anywhere.

I can only hope that some policymakers get to read this and understand the actual predicament of private vehicle owners.

[ZenMaster]

All the govt. has to do is to reduce the GST for the customers who scrapped their vehicle, to sams as that of EVs.

But we know they ain't gonna do that. Because as they say "The house always wins".

[Aviator_guy]

With so much corruption at RTO, what's the guarantee that people won't find workaround in getting favourable emission certificate and continue to keep old vehicles plying ?

I think that age related scrap policy is a level playing field and common man won't feel short-changed when someone else who is connected or ready to bribe would continue to obtain fitness certificate for as long as the system allows.

Having said that, age limit is debatable and need some more scientific backing.

[rdhawan15]

Originally Posted by Aviator_guy

With so much corruption at RTO, what's the guarantee that people won't find workaround in getting favourable emission certificate and continue to keep old vehicles plying ?

You are missing the point. The draft guidelines for the vehicle scrappage policy provide for:

- 4-6% discount on ex-showroom price
- Road tax discount
- Manufacturer discount in the form of scrappage bonus
- Option to convert the polluting vehicle to a green vehicle option.

As of today, a person scrapping the vehicle does not get any of these. Yes, a couple of manufacturers have started offering scrappage bonus. But, that's about it.

The scrappage policy may be a step in the right direction. But, the eco-system to encourage scrapping and incentivise scrapping does not exist at this point of time.

In the present form, the scrappage policy is a punitive measure (especially in Delhi).

It, therefore, is prudent to set the proposed scheme in right earnest before implementing the scrappage policy.

Until we have the Government willing to offer tax rebates and subsidies to people scrapping their vehicles, scrappage must be the last resort.

Automated vehicle fitness processes can be used to thwart corrupt officers. There is a method for everything. All that we need is the right intent.

If the intent is cleaner air for everyone, we must use science to devise and implement policies.

Scrappage would be the least preferred option, given the fact that the carbon footprint of making a new car is substantially higher.

[romeomidhun]

Now this will open a new channel for corruption. Not to say that the earlier rule was apt.

What I expect is some stability, common sense and long term view from the policy makers. We see a lot of short-sighted decisions, over-turning it with another such one... Let them do a proper study and then make rules, instead of making rules based on some statements for the general public in some public speeches. This emission things, 10-year rule, BH registration, EV policy... examples are many. Will they ever learn?

[tbppjpr]

Very risky to make such video in this era for an YouTuber, especially for a lady in a country where govt sponsored trollers can go to any low to defend the govt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8GwXUxKRW8

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by Aviator_guy

With so much corruption at RTO, what's the guarantee that people won't find workaround in getting favourable emission certificate and continue to keep old vehicles plying ?

Since the emission data is available in Parivahan site, the "Pollution History" of the vehicle should also be looked at (though people will find a way to cheat that too)

[BeemerBug_06]

Good to see that the Government has finally made a sensible decision. Just hoping everything materialises. It will truly be a heave of relief for us enthusiasts who love our cars and wish to keep them alive for as long as possible, considering I myself own two cars that are way above 15 years of age

While I was totally against the existing scrappage policy, this seems like a seemingly fair deal. It might also provide an impetus to people to maintain their cars better so as to pass the pollution test. I feel India should really implement a system like the UK's MOT. Not only will it be fair for all, but also leaves the decision in the vehicle owner's hands regarding what they wish to do with their vehicles.

[Rshrey22]

Originally Posted by rdhawan15

You are missing the point. The draft guidelines for the vehicle scrappage policy provide for:

- 4-6% discount on ex-showroom price
- Road tax discount
- Manufacturer discount in the form of scrappage bonus
- Option to convert the polluting vehicle to a green vehicle option.

Does Green vehicle only mean electric conversion or CNG also?