[NT_GT]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

1. Parallel Hybrid aka Mild Hybrid These vehicles have a small Li-Ion battery...
2. Series - Parallel Hybrid aka Strong Hybrid These vehicles have a small Li-Ion battery (around 1 KW)...
3. Series Hybrid aka Range extended electric vehicle These hybrids also have a battery (slightly larger than a series parallel hybrid vehicle)...
4. Plugin Hybrid These hybrids are nothing but series parallel hybrid or series hybrid with a larger battery...

What are the average weight of the batteries used?

In an ideal world, Plugin hybrid sounds best but we have heard again and again in this forum that it is a sum-negative idea. The weight of the batteries might give certain idea why it is so.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by riteshritesh

Nice information. Is there any difference between the ISG that Kia Seltos IVT has and the Mild Hybrids of Suzuki /Toyota ( Ciaz/XL6 and the gang).

I don't see Kia talking about mild hybrid tech for seltos. It could be so that they just implemented engine start and stop. The Mild hybrid needs a separate battery and regenerative braking for the torque assist to work.

Originally Posted by nandrive

Not only the regenerative braking charges the battery, ICE also charges the battery.

There are four different modes in which an series parallel hybrid can operate so explained those as separate points below the paragraph.

Originally Posted by NT_GT

What are the average weight of the batteries used?

Toyota prius prime is a plugin hybrid with 14 kwh battery. It weighs around 130-140 kg.

Originally Posted by gopalnt

. Also, from India's perspective, while for ICE we are dependent on fuel from Middle East or Russia, for batteries we may have to depend on China (not manufacturing but raw material itself).

Fuel once used cannot be reused. Battery materials once imported can be reused by recycling the battery. Hence for batteries there is a path to self sustenance over the future. Also in the more popular LFP batteries only 6 kg of lithium is needed rest is iron and phosphorus.

[vzvish91]

Originally Posted by RGK

I drove an Ertiga Hybrid a few days ago, and when the engine started, the RPM increased to 1500 before lowering after a few minutes

Yes this happens with my XL6 2023/Facelift as well.
The explanation that I got from MSIL ASS is that on cold start (or when the oil/engine temp is cold) the engine auto revs upto 1500rpm for 30-60secs and then settles down to its real idle 800ish rpm mark. By doing so the engine wear tear is decreased etc.
I am not yet convinced about this reasoning. If you get more information then please share.

~~~

Voted: Mild Hybrids.

Because:
+ They are not that expensive over their pure ICE counterpart
+ Battery is not too expensive to replace (iirc Ertiga/Xl6 mild hybrid battery costs around rs50000 and needs replacement in about 5years usage)
+ Gives mild boost during overtakes & initial acceleration
+ Gives good average especially on highways (in my recent trip I got 20kmpl by driving mildly enthusiastically; I own XL6 facelift 2023 manual)

Negatives:
- Not sure about the cost-vs-savings/etc is justified or not
- Added weight to haul in every ride
- Added complication over their pure ICE counterpart

Fyip - I would also prefer pure ICE Petrol especially for a sporty hatchback.

[ron178]

Excellent thread and nice to see all the technologies together in one place as it gets quite confusing sometimes.

I will not vote as it depends heavily on the use case of the car.

Eg. I would not get an Innova Hycross in the gas-guzzling pure ICE version, but also not an EV yet because you don't buy a car that premium just for the city. I find our hybrid perfect in that sense, although a diesel would be a strong second consideration (we were this close to a diesel Tucson).

For the city, I would either get an efficient pure ICE or a pure EV like the Punch. The extra cost of a hybrid or at least the current crop of them would hardly justify their gains.

Mild hybrid — take it or leave it. It might be nice to have but it would probably not factor into my buying decision at all.

Originally Posted by SithDefender

I have a question about this : Why does the Hycross have a lower fuel efficiency figure than the City hybrid/ Hyryder? Is it just because of the additional weight that the Innova has to haul?

Originally Posted by Phantom 510

The Innova Hycross is a much larger vehicle. It is neither light nor aerodynamic as the other two which increases drag.

Also remember the combustion engine in the Innova is 2 litres, vs 1.5L in the other two. The Hyryder even has a cylinder less.

Honda's i-MMD works slightly differently from Toyota's/others' hybrids. There was an excellent post on the City e:HEV thread.

[Encyclopedic]

Originally Posted by SithDefender

I have a question about this : Why does the Hycross have a lower fuel efficiency figure than the City hybrid/ Hyryder? Is it just because of the additional weight that the Innova has to haul? I have heard 13-15 kpl for the Hycross, and 25+ for the City hybrid. Could someone pls explain ?

Hycross gives 17-18 kmpl easily everyday.

[BlueGod]

Voted for EV. My humble opinion is any road travel above 500 km range is not enjoyable for the driving person or the commuters. Curvv ev, ZS EV, upcoming Windsor should be able to cover this distance with a single charge session close to 40 mins. All you need is a little planning to finish charging during your food break. The fast charging capacity of the above mentioned cars are underrated. Any one having a budget around 20 lakhs can go for any of these cars based on their brand preferenc.

[mack.mehul]

Mild Hybrid is a gimmicky kind of hybrid. The torque assist helps in increasing FE by around 10-15 % and nothing more. Most modern cars except SUVs if driven sedately on highways can easily give 17-24 kmpl. The proper Hybrid whether series hybrid or parallel hybrid is really a game changer with high FE. Toyota Hyryder and Grand Vitara easily manage 15-18 kmpl in city conditions which is fabulous in which conditions even small cars manage 12-13 kmpl at most with ac.
Even the hycross being a bulky vehicle still manages good figures in city so all in all hybrid tech is the way forward compared to EVs.

[Ravi Parwan]

I too, voted for EV. Sooner rather than later, most of us would be getting on the EV bandwagon, some gladly, some kicking and screaming.

Like BlueGod pointed out, newer vehicles with faster charging will become mainstream and when you merge a charging session with a meal it works out seamlessly for long distance travel as long as you can charge the vehicle to required levels in less than an hour.

While we have been burning oil for transport for quite a while now, in a couple of decades, it will become too valuable to be wasted for this. Instead it will be used for chemicals production mainly since most of our modern materials are derived from petrochemicals.

And when we will have no option but to go electric, things will improve for the user/driver and most will wonder why we were against it intiially. EVs offer instant torque, insane acceleration, no pollution on the road (apart from shredded tires from jackrabbit starts), limited noise, lower maintenance, better dynamics and road behaviour (owing to that low center of gravity from the batteries).

Range Anxiety, sustained high speed travel and long refueling time are some of the major roadblocks which once conquered will prompt us to shift to EVs eventually.

[MobileThunder]

Voted Strong Hybrid as it is wife's daily drive.

Originally Posted by nandrive

Not really, I own a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid, its cargo capacity, fuel tank capacity, cabin space are exactly same as its ICE counterpart.

Toyota Rav4 Hybrid might be one of the very well engineered Hybrids, with a very unobtrusive battery. I have heard that the Yaris is similarly designed as well.
But the Suzuki Grand Vitara (and Toyota hyryder) has a compromised boot space due to the strong hybrid battery.
We Indians are quite forgiving in that sense. We have already forgiven the CNG tanks eating away into the boot space, in the interest of fuel efficiency - so this looks like a similar compromise.
My Wife picked up a Maruti Grand Vitara hybrid and was OK to pay a 2.8 lakh premium for the increased FE and limited bootspace. Her faith was based on the fact that these are Toyota sourced engine/batteries coming with 8yr/1.6lakh km(battery) and 6yr/1.6lakh (engine) warranty. Plus, we will definitely have a heavy usage, as my 8 month old Jimny has already clocked in 20k km.
The cool tech and a 23kmpl FE in the brand new car has already put a smile on her face and as they say Happy wife= Happy Life.

[Mr.Ogre]

I voted for ICE, because I am not entirely convinced by hybrids and EVs still have a long way to go.

World over EV sales are going down mostly because there aren't many offerings from the mainstream manufacturers. In my circle here too, not many are keen to put their money on the Chinese ev's even though market is getting flooded by their offerings.

To add to it the concerns are still the same. May be now the range has extended for the ev's but the charging time is still a major turn off for many.

For someone like me to jump on to the ev bandwagon there has to be more options from my favorite mainstream brands - Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Ford.

Yes the BYD seal looks fantastic and I must say it is probably the only Chinese ev that comes close to enticing me. I am monitoring BYD Seal quite closely and the day BYD's are consistent with their quality globally (like Honda, Toyota) I will maybe take the plunge.

Range is not a deal breaker as I am used to my Focus needing refuel around 350 kilometers on highways, mainly because it is a 1.5 litre turbo, and it is very hard to not drive the Focus spiritedly.

For me the charging time has to be less than 15 minutes from 20 to 80% for me to even consider an ev. For me the convenience of charging an ev should be close enough to refueling a car, where you drive into any pump and drive out in 15 minutes top. No extra planning or meal breaks just to refuel or recharge the car.

[Axe77]

Selected strong hybrid but that’s partly also on the assumption that in a 2 car garage, I’d have another fun to drive ICE car.

My 3GT might be up for replacement in 1.5 - 3 years and I’m really not sure whether at that point I’d rather swap it for a Thar Roxx sort of petrol ICE lifestyle product or a Hycross strong hybrid do it all sort of one. If the GLC was not in the picture, I’d have likely done both.

[starke]

Very interesting and useful thread as India market is moving towards Hybrids.

I voted for Series hybrid especially for India because,
1. Less complexity and parts (no transmission).
2. Can almost carry over existing engines and add a Gen/Motor setup.
3. Much more reliable than parallel hybrids.
4. Enjoy the best of pure EV acceleration & smoothness w/o investing in an
EV (No range anxiety)

But as we all know it, pure EV will take over majority in the future unless we find another alternate energy source (Fossil fuels ain't one of them).
To myself, I will get a cheap EV if my commute is under 300 km/week or a Series/Plugin EV at a premium cost to enjoy C or D segment cars & for long trips.

Few small corrections on some technical parts below,

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

These vehicles have a small Li-Ion battery (around 1 KW)

1 kWh ( For motor power we use kW, in short, a 1 kWh battery can run a 1 kW motor for 1 hour at rated power)

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

Uses eCVT gearbox

There is also AT (Renault eTech) & DCT (Honda S Hybrid)

CVTs are more preferred for less perf/high fuel efficient segments.

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

95 RON fuel required due to variable compression

Only applicable to Nissan's VC Engines, normal engines can also do the same job without need of premium fuels.

[shresan23]

Selected pure ICE.

The reasons might trigger.

I still feel that hybrids are more prone to issues and might need more attention than an ICE vehicle. Personally, i have never felt the mileage crunch or the need for more mileage. The small car gives 8 now, which is okay, considering the fact that it is taken out twice or thrice a week at max.

The price factor is actually fair. Any new tech will cost money. That i can understand.

Also, i am a big manual fanboy. So, there is that.

I might switch to an EV for a daily driver if my daily rides go up and keep a diesel for highway rides, but i dont think i will ever switch to a hybrid. Only time will tell

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by starke

1 kWh ( For motor power we use kW, in short, a 1 kWh battery can run a 1 kW motor for 1 hour at rated power)

Thanks. It is a typo. I drive an EV so I am aware of difference between KW and KWH

There is also AT (Renault eTech) & DCT (Honda S Hybrid)
CVTs are more preferred for less perf/high fuel efficient segments.

My aim was to say that Series- Parallel hybrid uses gearbox. eCVT was one example. I should have put it as "Uses gearbox - Example - eCVT"

Only applicable to Nissan's VC Engines, normal engines can also do the same job without need of premium fuels.

Variable compression will be required for a series hybrid to power the car in case of heavy driving conditions like High speed, heavy acceleration. There is no option to rev the ICE as it has to run in an optimal RPM window. Now if a manufacturer can implement the same behaviour with lower RON fuel then it is a job well done.

[samm]

Originally Posted by SithDefender

Attachment 2647528

I have a question about this : Why does the Hycross have a lower fuel efficiency figure than the City hybrid/ Hyryder? Is it just because of the additional weight that the Innova has to haul? I have heard 13-15 kpl for the Hycross, and 25+ for the City hybrid. Could someone pls explain ?

Did a Bangalore-Calicut and return drive in Hycross hybrid. Speeds were generally around 90-100kmph till Gundlepet and around 70kmph on Kerala roads. Got 19kmpl, which included high-range driving as well.
on
If the speed are around 120kmph, it will drop to around 16-17kmpl, and so on. But the lowest I have got irrespective of driving style, speed or driving conditions is 14kmpl.

I would say these are very impressive FE figures for a huge car, with dual AC on throughout, and 4-5 passengers, with all luggage.

As a side note, I seriously doubt people buy Hycross for fuel savings. At least, that was not a concern for me.