[Manesh]

Considering the growth trajectory that Mahindra has been over the past few years, and the continuous improvement in products, platforms and quality, is it not a ripe time for Mahindra to consider developing a large SUV.

By this I mean a size comparable to the Landcruiser 300 / Nissan Patrol series.

Mahindra has repositioned itself as a pure sports utility brand and has discontinued models like the KUV100 and the Marazzo that were experimental shifts from their core market.

Considering that fact that Chinese brands like GWM through their HAVAL and TANK brands and BAIC with its new BJ60 series have or are developing products that sit at the top of the SUV pecking order in terms of size, capability and luxury, it would seem that Mahindra needs to develop a Halo product to create a product for existing customers 'to move up to' as well as for the Brand to establish itself amongst the creme de le creme of specialist SUV makers. Make no mistake, it is already an established SUV brand. This product would be to take it a notch higher in the world of Sports Utility focused brands and customers.

In the short term such a product would not really bring back great returns on the investment but by focusing on capability, reliability and quality, all the hallmarks that have made them a successful brand in international markets, they can build a customer base which will bring in dividends by the time the halo product moves to its second generation.

I would personally love to see a pinnacle ladder on frame SUV from Mahindra that challenges the Landcruiser and Patrol series.

[wheelguy]

They will, one step at a time. As of now they are bombarding the 10 to 25 lakh bracket with multiple options, all their resources are focused in that segment. It is not logical for them to divert their limited resources to develop such a big car for our market which is just moving up from the sub 10 lakh segment, and they cannot sell it in other markets as they are yet to establish a name for themselves in the developed markets.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by Manesh

I would personally love to see a pinnacle ladder on frame SUV from Mahindra that challenges the Landcruiser and Patrol series.

They should.

But I believe they may not do that on the lines of LandCrusier or Patrol. They may do this on the lines of Yukon, Escalade, Endeavor, Suburban, Armada, etc.

Basically something like XUV900 where AWD or 4X4 capability is available but the focus is more on luxury, comfort, features, and style. Simply because that is where the money will be, if the Indian market develops further.

[sharmanova]

Originally Posted by sunilch

They should. Basically something like XUV900 where AWD or 4X4 capability is available but the focus is more on luxury, comfort, features, and style. Simply because that is where the money will be, if the Indian market develops further.

Agree with you

Mahindra had a Fortuner-Endeavour competitor, the erstwhile Alturas G4 but they failed with it since Mahindra was not associated with expensive SUV's.

Now the times have changed. People are happy to spend ₹30L + on XUV700, Scorpio-N and the upcoming Thar Roxx, so it's the right time for them to develop an all new SUV, to compete against the new-gen Fortuner, Kodiaq, Everest. If they're considering to develop a new D-Segment SUV, I am requesting them not to repeat the same mistakes as they did with the Alturas G4 because

"History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce.”

[Kosfactor]

Mahindra is a big player in India, not across the world. So while they can leverage the lower cost of R&D set up in India, they surely cannot afford lower volumes given the market is mostly just India alone.

In other words at least 3000 units per month sales for example is needed if they are to recover the R&D costs of a LC300 equivalent.

Now how can they sell 50L vehicle at 3000 units per month in India is the question, even Toyota is barely able to do this.

[sharmanova]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Now how can they sell 50L vehicle at 3000 units per month in India is the question, even Toyota is barely able to do this.

Sir, Toyota sells 3000+ units of the Fortuner easily every month. You can even refer Team-BHP sales analysis. But from the past 3 months it is not able to because of the slowdown in Automobile Industry.

[Sk8r]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Now how can they sell 50L vehicle at 3000 units per month in India is the question, even Toyota is barely able to do this.

Not all products needs to be mass market vehicles. They also need to create Halo products to push the sales of other vehicles.

Thar was one such Halo product turned to a mainstream product with the New Thar and more so with Roxx.

As someone pointed out earlier, the Alturas G4 as Fortuner's rival should be the next hot product from Mahindra. They can't let Toyota have all the fun there, more so after Ford's exit.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Not soon IMHO!

Lest we forget - Mahindra has a LOT of vehicles in development and already announced that are on their plate for the medium term:

• XUV e8
• XUV e9
• Mahindra Global Pickup based on ScorpioN
• BE 05
• BE 07
• BE 09
• Thar E

[diwakarmuthu]

Sure, why not. They should be planning to have its own version of the Landcrusier, Patrol, Expedition, Lincoln Navigator or Chevy Tahoe. Profit margins for large SUVs are generally higher. It requires a true luxury brand building from Mahindra right from sales and service. Hopefully it would happen someday

For this to work, they need to have very strong sales from its lineup, which it does currenty. Maybe their strategy should look like this:

On the ICE front
Thar, ROXX, ScorpioN and XUV700 are good products. One area where a good volume product can play a role is in small SUV segment space. A product in the lines of Renegade would be a good fit for them. Price it under 15-17 lakhs with good dynamics, there is a potential winner on their hands

Secondly, Mahindra should seriously think about the Hybrid segment. As I have mentioned earlier, a product similar to Renegade's size with Hybrid options would be a good move along with Hybrid options for XUV700

For EVs
This space is still evolving. They need to figure out a vehicle with an actual 400km range to make some serious inroads. XUV 400 looks promising, but I am looking forward to the XUV500 Coupe variant and XUV700 EV avatars.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Manesh

Considering the growth trajectory that Mahindra has been over the past few years, and the continuous improvement in products, platforms and quality, is it not a ripe time for Mahindra to consider developing a large SUV.

Ok Manesh, one should've bought the Mahindra Alturas before it was discontinued a year and a half ago. Still a few used examples lingering on OLX. You missed the big SUV charm and it was quite the value-for-money deal with those juicy discounts before it bid adieu.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...gs-halted.html (Mahindra Alturas G4 discontinued in India; bookings halted)

While it might be tempting to think of stalwarts like the Fortuner, Land Cruiser, Defender, Patrol etc.. as mere rivals, those giants have established their reign for good reason! Before going global, the challenge for the likes of Mahindra and Tata of selling 3k+ units of 50 lac SUVs in India itself is formidable, it's no walk in the park!

Leave the Fortuner, even competing with the cheaper Innova has been quite the uphill battle, with the Xylo and Marazzo making valiant efforts but ultimately falling short.

But you’ve got a valid point; as the aspirations and wallets of Indian buyers grow, there’s plenty of room for our homegrown brands to keep reaching for the stars and climbing upmarket, and perhaps even take it global, Fingers crossed!

[manofinfinity]

Toyota or any other auto company can sell a car at whatever price they wish or ask not because of the product but also because of brand value, Toyota can sell 50lac cars like Fortuner/camry or even 1CR cars like Velfire/LC and these products do good numbers because of brand value.
A current example is the Invicto/Hycross sales comparison, Invicto does not even do 10% of the numbers that Hycross does even though they are the same products and Invicto is available readily.
People would hesitate before buying 50L or 1CR Mahindra.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by Manesh

Considering the growth trajectory that Mahindra has been over the past few years, and the continuous improvement in products, platforms and quality, is it not a ripe time for Mahindra to consider developing a large SUV.

By this I mean a size comparable to the Landcruiser 300 / Nissan Patrol series.

I would personally love to see a pinnacle ladder on frame SUV from Mahindra that challenges the Landcruiser and Patrol series.

Forget Mahindra, all the top 5 selling companies in India don't have the capability to sell a 45-50 lakh SUV forget the 1 crore plus Nissan Patrol/ Land Cruiser range of cars. All seems rosy from a distance, but even Chinese manufacturer like Tank, Haval and GMW have got their fare share of niggles and can't compete with the Japanese and European Behemoths. Go to their customer experience feedback and you can feel a lot of brick and bats for brands. Even VW (exclude Porsche and Audi) couldn't taste success of Land Rover, Rolls Royce, Bentley and Mercedes have enjoyed. It all boils down to the brand value and despite having a cousin, they cannot sell, even if you fix a Tata Logo on Range Rover, it will fail. Hyundai too tasted limited success with the Genesis brand. It is all about post sales service experience and brand value. Toyota and Honda too struggled to sell luxury cars despite having utmost reliability and had to launch luxury subsidaries like LEXUS and ACCURA to tap into the luxury market.

For this to happen, first all these brands need to turn reliable and then need to reinvent a new quotient that spits luxury. And they have a long way to go. It needs a lot of planning and investment.

[diwakarmuthu]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

For this to happen, first all these brands need to turn reliable and then need to reinvent a new quotient that spits luxury. And they have a long way to go. It needs a lot of planning and investment.

Your observation is right. The best selling name plates you have mentioned have reliability as one of the core themes. Also the brand has spent a long time to develop the vehicle too. Can Tata or Mahindra do that in today's scenario. I doubt it.

Tatas are having JLR, so they will not venture into that territory. Mahindra is the sole player left in this space now. They need to have a 5 year plan that will address multiple fronts before they can announce to the world about the luxury SUV vision

1. The brand needs to be viewed as an aspirational luxury brand. I am not looking down at the brand, the aspirational factor needs to be built from ground up

2. Reliability and consistency of the brand should be maintained. From sales to delivery to customer service, every single channel should be consistent with their messaging

3. A separate brand should be constituted. Hyundai has had some success with Genesis and Toyota has had remarkable success with Lexus.

All the above three requires a huge culture shift and big money. While money may not be a problem in the current market, the culture shift and ability to invest in brand building may not be there.

INEOS serves as an inspiration, but it is not a fully homegrown brand as they use components from BMW.

[Vinod_nair]

M&M shouldn't be even remotely dreaming of doing something big, outside the Sub Continent, for e.g. they tried very hard to be a Tata and bought Ssanyong, Pineferneria, Jawa etc (I can't even pronounce any of them properly) and look what happened.

They should just be happy puppies, doing the 20/25L stuff, BOF mastered with help of our very own Thar inventor Sir RIP.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by Vinod_nair

M&M shouldn't be even remotely dreaming of doing something big, outside the Sub Continent, for e.g. they tried very hard to be a Tata and bought Ssanyong, Pineferneria, Jawa etc (I can't even pronounce any of them properly) and look what happened.

They should just be happy puppies, doing the 20/25L stuff, BOF mastered with help of our very own Thar inventor Sir RIP.

They could not handle the brand and ruined Ssanyong. Pininfarina is a designer company that runs itself. They have just licenced Jawa to manufacture the bikes for Indian market. They original brand still is owned by Czech company that still churns out bikes for the world. Sometimes feel they are bad at business as they couldn't handle JVs with Ford, Renault, etc.

But if they need to be successful they need to build sub-brands that can branch out to be brands on their own. Problem with Mahindra's Scorpio is it's owned by Ford and Tata’s Safari that is owned by Nissan in international markets. For them to grow as international brands they will have to buy them out from the respective owners. Thar has the potential to grow on it's own. But that's still decades away.