[Boomerang]

Originally Posted by M00M

There’s no issue with the servicing. I have 3 Honda and all 3 are discontinued models . The only issue is with OEM accessories as no one keeps them but the parts are all available on order from the factory.

Anyone considering a sedan should in my eyes buy the city it’s a far better product than the competitors . And elevate is much more balanced product then the competitors. Every one cribbing about engine power I have to ask where is the speed limit to push the car ? It’s strange we complain about turbo this and that but the German trip has stuck around with the same 2.0 and 2.0d since 15-20 years and no one seems to complaint about that .

Elevate is a good product, balanced and far more reliable than any Korean .

Couldn't agree more. Honda ASS is the best out there of the lot. If you look at the software/app the ASS use; it is well synced with Honda connect. Their Turn around time is as promised and they listen to your feedback.

Honda not winning hearts in terms of sales does not mean they are bad products. They're very good!

[glovins2004]

I use to ogle at my managers 1st gen Honda city parked at Hitech City Madhapur back then in 2002. What happened to their design language?

[W.A.G.7]

Originally Posted by M00M

Elevate is a good product, balanced and far more reliable than any Korean .

Yes, the Elevate is a fantastic product, no doubt about it. But it was relevant in 2018. Everyone else has moved on and what Honda is offering is outdated tech at best. Sure it’s functional but then somewhere along the way there has to be a feel good factor about the car when you are spending upwards of 17 Lakh rupees. Plus their response/feedback time still has the high handedness that they had in their heydays. I will explain with my own example. A recent one, from June 2024.

My wife and I checked out the Honda Elevate in person at Garve Honda Chinchwad and Deccan Honda Katraj. Nice car, we were impressed by it. We booked a red Elevate on 8th June 2024 at Garve Honda by paying 21000/- as the amount. Since they didn’t have the red color in stock, they asked us to wait. Days turned to weeks but no information either from Honda or Garve on the booking progress. We had booked the VX CVT-R model. That would have cost us approximately 17,50,000/- on road in Pune. We were even mentally ready to upgrade to the ZX-CVT-R at 19,50,000/- OTR Pune. But what gives? Radio silence for 1.5 months. On further research we realised Honda is giving us the similar features or somewhat less as compared to what we had in our 2018 EcoSport.

Then there was an add in the newspapers for the XUV700 AX7 model at 19,49,000/- ex showroom. Mind you this is a ploy by Mahindra - what they offer is a manual geared one at that price. But hey, who cares - when you get a proper segment upgrade at the nearly same price? If you consider now, then ZX-CVT-R becomes irrelevant. In the long term of 10-15 years those additional 5-6 lakhs for the OTR price become insignificant in the total cost of ownership. In our case we specifically wanted an automatic car, so we pumped in an additional 6L over the 17.50 for the elevate and got ourselves the XUV700 AX5 Select variant. And we are so satisfied with the car. It’s a proper upgrade for us. We took delivery on the 5th of August.

The point I am making is that when you are being milked to death monetarily by any car maker, the car be darn good enough for every rupee you are spending. In the Honda Elevate - it simply doesn’t feel that way. At best it’s Brezza or Venue category but that’s about it. No offence to anyone who owns a Brezza, Venue or Elevate. Oh yes, did I mention that I had to put up a fight for the refund of the Elevate booking? That’s another story for another day. Here’s where Honda fails spectacularly. I had mentioned this point in the Honda H’ness motorcycle thread as well. History repeats itself they say and that’s why Honda is slowly going into oblivion.

[JunkyardHunter]

It's truly a shame to see the current state of Honda India. From once great automotive behemoth to mucking up launch after launch after launch. I have been saying it time and time again - HI is going to exit the market soon, at this current rate.

[Raghu M]

This analysis report needs to be presented to Honda (global). They would be surprised and shocked equally. I personally think there is nothing majorly wrong with Elevate. I think the lack of engine options is only point of discussion in these kind of forums. The average customer wants all features and value for money. I would have definitely looked at the Elevate hadn't I bought the 3OO back in 2020. Agree that Honda has a very laid back attitude towards Indian market. The Americans have queued up to exit the Indian market, Honda should take notice of that and come up with a big plan for India. The lack of product line up is a very poor strategy and there is no hot seller right now for the brand.

[fhdowntheline]

MG India has four SUVs and one subcompact, with another potential car launch soon. They have been in India for all of 6 years or so. Yet they are trying, fighting it out for customer mindspace, whatever their financial ownership status- which has also been suitably amended. There is some level of drive and zest in the company management. In the same period, Honda shut down production of the Jazz, WRV, BRV and Civic- all fairly competitive products by design , just not getting the necessary incremental updates.So it's no surprise where they have landed.

[DessertOnWheels]

I always believed Honda:
Was always late to the party.
Left the party too soon.
Wrongly dressed for the occasion.

But that’s just partially true. Honda cars care definitely much sturdier than Hyundai & Kia. The Jazz, as per one test, was the most stable when it came to the Moose test. There are more 2 decade old Hondas for sale than 8 year old Koreans. Speaks a lot about quality, reliability and longevity.

The competition bedazzled the market with glitter and bling and that cleverly masked the shortcomings. Honda instead tried staying in the ‘price sensitive zone’, thereby diluting its brand value.

Honda definitely is a better product than the Korean twins & some other Japs. I’d think they should have played the status game instead, interspersed with a few true Type R and some hot hatches once every few years.

Alas, they couldn’t bring in their global heritage and recall to India. Hoping they’ll roll up their sleeves soon.

[ashish2135]

Originally Posted by M00M

Elevate is a good product, balanced and far more reliable than any Korean .

My two cents about the experience with Honda vs VAG products.

I got the first Elevate in my city. I was replacing my 1st gen Creta and it was my first Honda. the decision was made on a whim because I wanted to move away from owning Hyundai products for almost a decade. Plus the Honda engine seemed refined, the design language was much better than the competition and the interior felt premium. The pricing also felt VFM.

The car was an instant hit with my family which doesn’t really bother about cars. It became everyone’s favourite and I felt the same way because of how easy it was to use. Elevate felt like the perfect fit.

6 months later I decide to replace my Verna. My obvious choice was the City and it had great offers. Suddenly and itch to own my first VAG product led me to a Škoda Slavia 1.5 DSG with amazing discounts. I got the Slavia instead of the City.

Even though the Slavia is a hoot to drive and a solid product. It feels like a cheaper car from inside. The cost cutting in VAG 2.0 products is perceived in things that I cannot quantify or put my finger on. It doesn’t deserve the price it commands just for the powertrain and maybe I wouldn’t have bought it without the amazing discounts. I don’t think I would feel the same in the City and would have gladly bought it without the offer as well. There is a huge gap in the top end model pricing of both.

That’s why I feel that with Honda products you get what you pay for. It doesn’t make you feel that you’ve got a lesser product. This is for an India specific 2023 product from Honda, people who have owned previous cars like Civic, Accord , CRV must have seen Honda’s true glory.

[CarsAndDrives]

Having owned two Honda cars in the last 9 years, I can vouch for the fact that they are built to last and rarely leave you stranded. The reliability is quite high, spares and service is reasonable and will not burn the pockets. They tick most of the boxes that anyone would require from a car.
If they were to launch vehicles from their global portfolio they will definitely see a reversal of trend. They should stop trying to be Maruti or Hyundai because they can do so much better. They still have a great amount of goodwill and brand value - get the right products and features and the people will flock to buy them.

[Mr.Ogre]

All said an done, if Honda also quits Indian market that does not leave many options for people who want a reliable Japanese car and are not sold to the idea of buying a Korean or Chinese or home grown brands. Basically manufacturers with rock solid reliability and peace of mind ownership. With Ford gone that void is still open.

[pv5]

Nice writeup. I wanted to move away from VAG, and had set my sights on the Honda esp. given the kind of ownership experience I had. Pricing-wise it is extremely well packaged and even the base variants for automatics felt were really good VFM. Performance-wise they don't quite come close to VAG twins, but it is acceptable performance in city & the back seat comfort is one of the best in class. Amazing suspension, and elevate felt much more spritely to drive compared to the city.
What ticked me off was the road noise and engine noise filtering in when you are doing 80 kmph, and that too in a 20L car. It is unacceptable as even 10L cars from hyundai do a much better job to keep NVH levels down. Not after gimmicks but this in many ways is the basics & they need to do a much better job of it.

We see the numbers creta of today & ogle at but for any serious manufacturer to do well in India, they need a upgrade pathways(or monopolies in some segments like toyota). This is simply missing today in honda, vw et. al. They have themselves to blame. If they want to do better, there is still time in 3-5y time when all this cohort of creta owners look for an upgrade. At 30L plus price points, the options are fewer and still have nearly no competition & their in-cabin experience has to be miles better(along with driving dynamics) than the ones they are exiting.

[Beemer1077]

Originally Posted by pqr

Rise and fall of the Honda car brand in India: Glorious past to obscurity

The reason for this has been clear undercutting by some competitors, be it Maruti Suzuki, or Hyundai. Furthermore, mindset of majority of Indians is to have short term gains, which means save more on buying a tin can like Maruti Suzuki, but it becomes a long term pain if the car becomes a mangled piece of junk, provided the occupants survive but with severe injuries.

Honda's refusal to launch a diesel engine until 2013 was a sensible option as diesel in India is not of a high quality - fuel adulteration is rampant, due to which even clean new diesel engines cough pollutants. Maruti Suzuki, Hyundai, Tata and many others did have diesel line-up, and Indians like fools went for cheaper fuel. The Accord 2.4 was a great car, and Honda should have launched the newer models it to compete with Skoda Superb, VW Passat, Toyota Camry etc. In fact, the brand new Accord is always a cheaper alternative to the brand new BMW 3-series, Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4 etc.

If we take a look at the Civic, again fuel quality was a problem for the 2019 relaunch. Otherwise Civic would have got a high power 1.5L Turbo that is available in our failed state neighbor Pakistan market as well. Same for CR-V. Shame that Honda pulled the plug for both cars, which were fantastic products worldwide. The current model Corolla is also discontinued, and instead Toyota has launched extremely disgusting rebadged models of Maruti Suzuki, rather than launch authentic products which are available elsewhere.

My former college roommate who lives in Vancouver CA, drives a 2008 Honda Accord V6 and still runs butter smooth. I have friends who drive old model Civic, 2006 Honda City ZX, the new 2023 CR-V and they are all fantastic and reliable.

So while Honda did axe their legs, it is equally the mindset of Indians that has contributed to this. The City, Civic, CR-V, Accord are fantastic products, and of course, the other cars like Amaze and Elevate as well. The build quality of Honda is 10 times better than the tin can Maruti Suzuki. And they can run for so many miles/KMS.

[sac23]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Coming to the Elevate - the media reaction as I attended the first unveil event itself should have warned Honda that it is not going to be a hot seller. Its a product without a proper USP just trying to keep up with the competition in multiple categories and never managing to achieve the bar in any!

I was recently out to get a car under 17L. Honda City and Honda Elevate were both shortlisted among other cars at that price range. The Honda City felt so bland in its design and it didn't look like a 17L car plus it's due for a generation facelift. So, the attention was turned to the Elevate. As you have mentioned, there is nothing that stands out in this car except for the 1.5L engine which is supposedly the best of its kind. Unfortunately, I had to turn it down due to one major feature which it was missing even in its third variant, rear armrest.

I believe that Honda is trying to play it safe, but they are shooting in their own foot with it. All other brands are building a niche customer base while Honda is slowly moving a step closer to exiting India.

[Aaron:)]

Amazing analysis, thank you for sharing this on the forum.

My few cents on this topic -

- We keep blaming the ‘Indian car buyer mindset’ for choosing MS/Hyundai over other brands. I see this a lot in threads related to Honda, Ford, VAG etc. IMO this needs to stop. The Indian market is different from the rest of the world. Car makers, if they want to succeed here, need to understand this fact. If we want to blame anyone, it should be the government that imposes high taxes, changes policies on a whim, and fails to give sufficient infrastructure to sufficiently enjoy our cars

- Honda’s current state is their own fault. They could have balanced luxury and mass market like Škoda/VW, or partnered with someone like Toyota did. It’s a lack of vision, plain and simple

- Coming to the Elevate, it’s a nice car that does many things well. The suspension is definitely a highlight. But it just doesn’t feel like a 20 lakh rupee car at all. The interiors are bland, many features are missing, and NVH is poor. The Creta IVT gets all these things right. Hyundais may not be as bulletproof as Hondas, but the Creta gives you everything you need and want in a midsize SUV. It rides well, handles predictably, is loaded to the gills and has exceptional refinement levels. It excels in the feel good department, something the Elevate lacks. The Creta 100% deserves to be a best seller

- Speaking of safety, I have a feeling the Elevate might do well in crash testing. Why can’t Honda sponsor a crash test? Tata’s resurgence was built on the 5-star crash test ratings. Why can’t Honda show some initiative for once?

- Hyundai and VAG brought their turbo petrols to India. Hyundai is even working on a Creta EV. Maruti/Toyota brought a well priced hybrid. Honda is still flogging the decades old I-VTEC. As fun as it may be, it can’t hold a candle to the 160 hp Seltos GT. Hondas excuses about fuel quality are lame. I remember a news article saying that they can’t bring the Jazz to India since it had an expensive electronic parking brake. If Hyundai can add EPB to the Creta, why can’t Honda?

Honda has received immense love from India. Till date, the OG Civic is considered to be among the best cars sold in India. If they’re happy to run a small, profitable, export focused business here, they’re on the right track. But if they want to go back to their glory days, they need to pull their socks up.

[Deamon0508]

Many have said so, and I've personally felt it myself (2nd Gen Honda City, 4th Gen Honda City, pre-facelift Brio). Honda products are good products, but the problem is, that is the bare minimum hygiene level stuff that everyone in the market is expected to do.

Reliability was one of the forte for Honda and Toyota, which allowed them to charge a premium. Barring a one-off Tata story, I haven't really heard too many people complaining of cars leaving them stranded for the past decade now. from what I've experienced, people are willing to put in the leg work or elbow grease to correct the niggles (vibrating dashboards as an example)

In the bygone era of NA petrols, their iVTEC's really did feel a cut above, but with the rise of turbo petrols, prospective owners get the mid-range push that is just not possible in a similar displacement NA. Through the ownership, the owner might not even use the mid range that often, seeing the fuel consumption drop down to single digits, this too, just wouldn't happen to such a degree on an NA engine.

Nobody denies that Honda products are good products, they have just devolved into unemotional, border-line bland, no-nonsense appliances for commutes.

Personal observations from here on out [Hurt alert issued]
Look at the Elevate, the blanking of the top half of the front radiator grill, just isn't 'Honda' for me. The 'Honda' that I knew, wouldn't have the grill to be so large if it wasn't required. If asked to pinpoint my dismissal, this would be the one thing. The doors have nothing to take a second look at, an ugly keyhole on the drab side profile is just cherry on top.
4th gen City had so many obvious cost cutting, open up the boot and see the wires hanging loose, an HVAC control system that wasn't designed for ease of use, high road noise, engine noise at cruising speed, rattling dashboard, among many other un-Honda things.
5th gen City might be the most comfortable thing this side of 25-lakh, but it looks so so drab in person, the wheels to metal-on-top proportion looks off, to an extent where upsized rims just wouldn't suffice, you're need bigger and deeper wheelarches along with bigger wheels. I haven't had the pleasure of spending enough time driving it, but I surely am no fan of how boring it looks.

I agree that the cars would last a lifetime with basic routine maintenance, and for many people that would do, but buying a Honda has to be more than 'would do', we have Suzukis for doing just that.
Honda needs to listen to its customers, not just existing ones, but the prospective ones too, it needs to figure out how to get back to being an aspirational brand, something that you want to own, and not just because it ticks the right boxes.

EDIT : Without a product pipeline, what would be the halo car for the brand in India? Something that represents everything that the Honda brand stands for, the product values of which trickle down to through their product portfolio. Similar to what they had with the Accord, or even the Civic for that matter.