[inner_roadster]

Union road transport minister Nitin Gadkari has asked the vehicle industry to begin preparing for the next-generation of emissions rules, i.e., BS7 (Bharat Stage 7), which is expected to come into effect by European Union countries by 2025. As per the new BS7 norms, the amount of pollutants released by the car will be constantly monitored by the car with the help of On Board Diagnostics system i.e., OBD. So the installation of the OBD would certainly shoot-up the prices of cars in India in the coming days.

Another major feature of the BS7 emission requirements will be standardized measuring of polluting particles from automotive brakes and tyres. Standardization is essential because microplastics and brake dust from tyres and brakes are harmful to the environment.

Therefore, the new BS7 norms will require significant technological advancements and investments from car manufacturers. It will undoubtedly increase vehicle production costs because of the need for more advanced pollution control systems and components. This will result in higher car prices for Indian consumers.

Source :https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/.../100330753.cms

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by inner_roadster

As per the new BS7 norms, the amount of pollutants released by the car will be constantly monitored by the car with the help of On Board Diagnostics system i.e., OBD.

And? Report back to headquarters in real time, ordering the car to seize operation if it crosses the threshold?

[DivyanshuDiv]

Originally Posted by DicKy

And? Report back to headquarters in real time, ordering the car to seize operation if it crosses the threshold?

Perhaps, they will integrate UPI mandate-based e-challan directly deduced from a new specialized credit card meant for this purpose whose payment will be just like TDS.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by inner_roadster

Union road transport minister Nitin Gadkari has asked the vehicle industry to begin preparing for the next-generation of emissions rules, i.e., BS7 (Bharat Stage 7), which is expected to come into effect by European Union countries by 2025. As per the new BS7 norms, the amount of pollutants released by the car will be constantly monitored by the car with the help of On Board Diagnostics system i.e., OBD. So the installation of the OBD would certainly shoot-up the prices of cars in India in the coming days.

The On-Board real-time monitoring of emissions is already in place as a result of BS6 Phase-II in form of the RDE (Read Driving Emission) norms. Undoubtedly it has resulted is price increase of cars across brands complying with RDE norms already. One of the original proposals of Euro-7 was that cars should comply under RDE testing over a wider range of boundary conditions than Euro 6 in terms of driving behavior, ambient temperature, and altitude eg. high hilly roads, snowy conditions etc. which the manufacturers opposed arguing that some of these conditions are not practical or out of scope of a regular car driving conditions.

Originally Posted by inner_roadster

Source :https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/.../100330753.cms

By the way, the article you quoted is quite old (May-'23) and since then, much water has flown under the bridge. The Euro-7 has actually been watered down quite a bit by the Euro lawmakers themselves as complying with every single point was extremely expensive & that saw huge protests from car makers and some European countries themselves, like Spain and Italy which saw these to effectively kill small & affordable city vehicles.

As reported in Mar-2024, the European Parliament has agreed to some major tweaks in the new Euro-7 emissions regulations which are far less stringent than the original standards proposed in 2022 – and come into effect for cars five years later, in 2030 rather than 2025. While there will be stricter pollution caps for buses and trucks, the tailpipe emissions limits for passenger vehicles and vans will be unchanged from the current Euro 6 standards under the revised standards of E-7.

Further reading for those interested: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...-euro-7-a.html (Euro Norms: The technicalities, backlash & watered down Euro-7!)

Thanks.

[anjan_c2007]

BS VII will again be a nightmare for car buyers, more worse than what all they have faced with the BS VI and VI (2) norms. I am reading a lot of criticism from EU car buyers and users and lately politicians for the Euro VII guidelines, that have been diluted and its deadline to kick in set for 2030.

There are no government regulations for other major polluters who have been publicly reported as contributing to more than 70 % in emission of toxic and obnoxious gases plus the SPM /dust generated during construction, civil works and domestic cooking.

The breakup is :-
(1) Residential sector (domestic) - 25%
(2) Industrial sector - 24%
(3) Agricultural crop burning- 19%
(4) Transport sector -13%

The source:-
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/...ion-come-from/
( the above data had made headlines in our media during late 2023)

And you gulliontine automobiles and their owners, the government’s most favourite scapegoat and whipping boy, with harsh and harsher measures. Making the other three plus (construction sector data was not available) greater polluters answerable to codified Acts of law will make the politicians face repercussions, loss of face and ultimately votes, for whosoever is in the government.

[Earthroamer]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

BS VII will again be a nightmare for car buyers, more worse than what all they have faced with the BS VI and VI (2) norms. I am reading a lot of criticism from EU car buyers and users and lately politicians for the Euro VII guidelines, that have been diluted and its deadline to kick in set for 2030.

There are no government regulations for other major polluters who have been publicly reported as contributing to more than 70 % in emission of toxic and obnoxious gases plus the SPM /dust generated during construction, civil works and domestic cooking.

The breakup is :-
(1) Residential sector (domestic) - 25%
(2) Industrial sector - 24%
(3) Agricultural crop burning- 19%
(4) Transport sector -13%

The source:-
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/...ion-come-from/
( the above data had made headlines in our media during late 2023)

And you gulliontine automobiles and their owners, the government’s most favourite scapegoat and whipping boy, with harsh and harsher measures. Making the other three plus (construction sector data was not available) greater polluters answerable to codified Acts of law will make the politicians face repercussions, loss of face and ultimately votes, for whosoever is in the government.

Typical of any policy maker. Target the low hanging fruit. They don't want to make any real change, but on paper, they should appear as "some saviour" by parroting latest buzz words in the media and making policies around the said buzz words.

Especially in India, it is even more obvious. 25 year old govt busses emit black smoke from their tail pipes after making a move at every bus stop, but let's penalise cars even more, which are already very clean.

I read that BSVII would want, catalytic converter to be hot and functioning efficiently before any gases come out of exhaust manifold. This needs a whole new electrical energy system in place for it to actually work and ofcourse the increase in the subsequent emissions.

A complex design which offers the same functionality is less efficient than a simple design which offers the same exact functionality. This is as basic as it gets. For a moment, I don't belive these "activist" bureaucrats don't know this. All the policies that the EU is following, from increase in number of migrants to banning ICE cars to consume new cars (EVs) is nothing but to increase the consumption so that they will post the "growth" number for their sluggish economy, which is at snail's pace post the 2008 recession. It's got nothing to do with limiting CO2 emissions or anything. These are just marketing terminologies to rope in the dopes (general uninformed young crowd). Afterall, more consumption results in more CO2 emissions and nothing is going to change that (laws of thermodynamics)

[silverado]

Already its quite tough to buy cars as they are extremely expensive due to various factors since last 4-5 years. This will make it impossible for a lot of buyers to own a brand new car, in turn will result in pre-owned car demand growing quite a bit.

If govt does implement the 15 year old scrapping policy, lot of people will lose out on car ownership IMO as they may not be able to afford buying a new BS7 car.

I feel if your car is near 12-13 year mark, this is the best time to buy one as the market is slow and discounts are on.

[meisteramg]

The minister and dept concerned should fix the transport infrastructure first before blindly copying EU laws. Both pollution and fuel consumption will have a huge positive impact if we can have roads like those in EU, whose rules the Govt blindly tries to implement.

[Deamon0508]

Originally Posted by Earthroamer

Especially in India, it is even more obvious. 25 year old govt busses emit black smoke from their tail pipes after making a move at every bus stop, but let's penalise cars even more, which are already very clean.

I read that BSVII would want, catalytic converter to be hot and functioning efficiently before any gases come out of exhaust manifold. This needs a whole new electrical energy system in place for it to actually work and ofcourse the increase in the subsequent emissions.

A complex design which offers the same functionality is less efficient than a simple design which offers the same exact functionality. This is as basic as it gets. For a moment, I don't belive these "activist" bureaucrats don't know this. All the policies that the EU is following, from increase in number of migrants to banning ICE cars to consume new cars (EVs) is nothing but to increase the consumption so that they will post the "growth" number for their sluggish economy, which is at snail's pace post the 2008 recession. It's got nothing to do with limiting CO2 emissions or anything. These are just marketing terminologies to rope in the dopes (general uninformed young crowd). Afterall, more consumption results in more CO2 emissions and nothing is going to change that (laws of thermodynamics)

Bang on my friend.
The whole endless chase for ever-higher 'shareholder value' is what's driving rampant consumption, which I think is the biggest contributor to the trashing of the environment. The policy makers keep peddling the idea of 'cleaner' cars, which in my opinion is just the automotive lobby talking to keep sales up for 'shareholder value'. The marginal improvement in emissions would perhaps not even compare to the marginal energy required to create and scrap.

Our policy makers chase whatever they find 'hot' in other geographies, while giving no consideration how the other aspects of the ecosystem function. Raise the prices of the cars by all means, but at least have enough public transit options for people to utilize. And have decent non clogged roads for the people who do pay the financial penalty to buy the vehicle then.

[GeeTee TSI]

Very interesting to find pollutants being agnostic of the type of propulsion (especially for some categories). It is quite probable that our range of ICE will become even more constrained and limited in choice of drivetrains (with some of the wishes remaining a pipe dream)

I wish the severe penalties on new cars would also be supplemented by penalties on poor upkeep of older cars plying on the road (keyword being upkeep and not age)

[Bhodrolok]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

I am reading a lot of criticism from EU car buyers and users and lately politicians for the Euro VII guidelines, that have been diluted and its deadline to kick in set for 2030.
.

Yes, the EURO VII guidelines have been diluted but that's because the auto makers wanted to be able to focus their efforts towards complete electrification by 2024. I guess if we follow a similar target, the govt would be happy to dilute BS VII norms too.

Wake up! We are facing the worst summers, wildest floods and insane weather events, the worst air quality on the planet, we need to make drastic changes and NOW. But yes, the same yardstick should be used for vehicles on road and NCR is not the only place where people have to breathe, the diesel passenger vehicle rule needs to be implemented across the nation especially all cities.

[Entsurgeon]

On a side note, they can do this. They've mandated HSRP. But they won't mandate compulsory gps and linking of aadhar and mobile with vehicle and a centralised anti theft system pan india. Remember what happened to mobile phones with advent of imei. If they do it, it would be practically impossible to get away with any vehicle theft. We have the tech. We have the infrastructure. Why not a centralised theft prevention system for vehicles at least. Sorry for the rant but the additional expense would be worth it if this is implemented and an additional benefit would be marginal reduction in insurance premiums too.

[shortbread]

It is crucial for the automotive export sector that our regulations align with international standards, as evidenced by the surge in Maruti's exports following the implementation of stricter emission and safety norms. Otherwise, we risk fostering an insular industry that avoids competing globally and instead relies on excuses. While affordability is often cited as a challenge, it's essential to acknowledge the increasing purchasing power of Indian consumers; for example, the Alto's sales have plummeted while the Creta, priced over 15 lakhs on the road, has emerged as the top seller. If car manufacturers are truly facing affordability issues when producing safer and greener vehicles, it falls upon them to innovate and lower costs, as the saying goes "Necessity is the mother of invention." Just recently, Citroen demonstrated this principle by launching a 4.3-meter car priced at 8 lakhs, the market can adapt when regulations push for change. Without such governmental impetus, maruti might still be content peddling the carburetted 800 with new stickers.

[Cresterk]

Gonna go against the trend for once and say that I’m happy for the implementation of brake and tyre pollution. They are very hazardous to health and so far the entire world has only been concerned with tail pipe emissions. Especially massive EVs produce considerably more brake dust and tyre pollution even though they have been enjoying a “non polluting” status for too long. Hopefully this applies to all brakes and tyres manufactured and sold throughout the country and not just equipped on the BS7 cars from showroom.