[DRPSREDDY]

Companies are going the lighter route to save on Cafe norms as government is tightening the noose around OEMs. There is a severe pressure to cut down on Carbon footprint. There is a call to go all electric and choose alternative green energy.

Today the automotive industry is at crossroads to choose a new green energy source powertrain. With many options and theories floating for new power options it is confusing as a customer about what fuel to chosse. Most of the public are playing safe by going the conventional was of Petrol, CNG, Hybrids, e-power and quite a handful for Electric powertrains. More options such as:
Hydrogen
Battery Sodium/Solid State/etc
Green fuels
Solar
BIO-fuels
....are been researched but still not yet or been just getting out into commercialization.











In such an environment, TATA has stepped off the platform and Toyota too is planning to get off the Fortuner and introduce the Hybrid car. Only Mahindra and Force have been riding the Diesel body on ladder frame vehicles and Mahindra has had a dream run firing up the sales chart. Also the Indian government has gone slow and expects only 30% EV penetration by 2030 and research expects roughly about 33% each market share for ICE, Hybrids and EVs by then.vMany have wished the Tata get back the Safari Strome.

In such a scenario, as the technology in such a cross roads and economic environment, is R&D and roll out new cars of body and ladder frame chassis vehicles still viable?

Do you think the juggernaut should continue.....

[bijims]

Going by the success of the Scorpio-N and the never-ending demand for Fortuners, I think there is still a market for good BOF diesel, but the fact is Mahindra and Toyota already have the platform available, whereas other manufacturers like Tata, need to revive their old platforms or build new platforms for BOF cars, other foreign companies need to bring in the platforms from global models to build a BOF car, so it may not be as fruitful considering the investment required.

[DicKy]

Same was said for investing in ICE, but we can now see companies backtracking on them. Same for BoFs. It is definitely not going to last for half a century, but definitely not going away for a decade atleast.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

In such an environment, TATA has stepped off the platform

Nah, TATA just being lazy. They had the engine (2.2l), they had the platform (X2), but they deemed it fit to abandon both and leap into the future. The supposedly old school ancient tech ScorpioN is doing five digit sales. Even if take half of that away for the Scorpio Classic, the ScorpioN is still doing more than twice the sales of Safari and Harrier combined!!! The upcoming Sierra would be a smash hit if it was a Thar competitor. But they deemed it fit to be a Creta rival. Not saying that the upcoming Sierra wouldn't sell (it will sell in good numbers), but you wouldn't find buyers for it like the Thar, where people buy and use it inspite of it not exactly being user friendly as a car.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

and Toyota too is planning to get off the Fortuner and introduce the Hybrid car.

Nope. Toyota BoFs to stay

Especially the Fortuner. The only reason why the Innova made the jump to the monocoque TNGA-C platform was that the next gen Fortuner and Hilux is going to be on the TNGA-F platform. Prices will definitely rise and the Innova couldn't afford to get even more expensive. So they plonked it on the cheapest platform possible for a large 7 seater, and kept selling the BoF Innova Crysta side by as they weren't sure of themselves. Since they are going upmarket in the next generation, the Hilux and Fortuner already have replacements ready or in the anvil, Hilux Champ and mini Fortuner/Landcruiser ready respectively.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Only Mahindra and Force have been riding the Diesel body on ladder frame vehicles and Mahindra has had a dream run firing up the sales chart.

Mahindra deserves the success, and they haven't stopped yet. Next gen Bolero and a whole range of models will be BoF.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by bijims

the fact is Mahindra and Toyota already have the platform available, whereas other manufacturers like Tata, need to revive their old platforms or build new platforms for BOF cars,

Originally Posted by DicKy

Nope. Toyota BoFs to stay.

Nah, TATA just being lazy. They had the engine (2.2l), they had the platform (X2), but they deemed it fit to abandon both and leap into the future.

Thanks for correcting me. I thought Toyotas are going the Range Rover way by completely ditching the BOF Chassis.

Yes. I do feel the X2 platform has lots of potential left and can make an excellent Fortuner/ Endeavour like SUVs but they need to really work on the 2.2L engine that can produce 200BHP with 500NM torque and need to get in an all new slick manual gearbox (or rather skip one for Autobox) to get back into race.

Also the new Intra truck platform can be used to make a small Jimny like SUV that can revolutionize the BOF SUV market. There will be a good market if they can plonk in the latest 1.5L TGDi and Diesel engines with 4X4 capabilities.

But TATA has so many car projects in hand that they will not think about new cars. The hatchback cars range needs to shift to new platform and upgrades of the likes of Nexon too is pending. By that time Punch too will need modernization. Tata is too slow in R&D.

[Asoon]

BOF was serving a purpose, if with advancement in metallurgy, improved materials / structural strength and technology can achieve BOF plus points in a lighter, compact, more comfortable setup then it will be phased off.

Today, BOF are required for Towing, carrying more Passengers & off-road requirements. Carrying passengers is solved (Innova Hycross, Force Traveller), 4 Independent electric motors enabling tank turn will solve off-road and probably towing is also sorted (I am not aware). BOF days are coming to end.

[Kosfactor]

I do not think BOF as a technical aspect of a vehicle holds much value in a buyer`s mind, Case in point is Innova Hycross.

What matters however for the BOF platform is how much excitement individual products can bring to the market. Just by adding doors or having 4x4 or a pickup bed etc does not make a vehicle exciting, the entire package has to appeal to the buyer at the end of the day.

If we had thought that BOF is limited to MUV and SUV, well we were wrong because a SWB 2 door Jeep became a volume seller.

So what next? Maybe a Thar based pickup truck with removable top perhaps! who knows.

[GTO]

Body-on-frame will continue for a long time in SUVs, because it is easier to develop, cheaper to develop, extremely abuse-friendly, offroad-friendly and for owners, cheaper to repair after an accident. That's why commercial taxis have long loved the BoF MUVs & SUVs.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Only Mahindra and Force have been riding the Diesel body on ladder frame vehicles and Mahindra has had a dream run firing up the sales chart.

On the contrary, I would say that Mahindra has made body-on-frame SUVs their USP . The Scorpio-N, Bolero & Thar have a long legion of fans, as does the mighty Fortuner. Mahindra sells 25,000 body-on-frame UVs every month, while Toyota easily does 5000 - 6000 (Fortuner & Innova Crysta combined).

[Cresterk]

I would say BOF will continue to live on in off-road focused SUVs and rugged Pickup trucks. I can only remember Land Rover having off-road capable SUVs in a monocoque platform. Everyone else, including Mercedes with their new generation G wagon still uses body on frame for their off-roaders. Toyota too will continue with BOF for their Landcruisers and what not. The Innova was changed to monocoque because honestly there was no real reason a people mover should have been BOF in the first place other than cheapening out on development costs by using a Hilux frame. It was never going to be in a position where 2 diagonally opposite tyres are hanging off the ground on an off-road trail and the chassis is subject to extreme twisting force.

BOF might ultimately be left behind with metallurgical advancements but I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. Just as how pure ICE cars might be left behind in the future.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Also the new Intra truck platform can be used to make a small Jimny like SUV that can revolutionize the BOF SUV market. There will be a good market if they can plonk in the latest 1.5L TGDi and Diesel engines with 4X4 capabilities.

That would be just awesome!!! Guess the Intra uses a detuned version of the Nexon's 1.5l diesel (maybe wrong) And a Nexon size Sierra styled body on top.

If wishes were horses...

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

But TATA has so many car projects in hand that they will not think about new cars. The hatchback cars range needs to shift to new platform and upgrades of the likes of Nexon too is pending. By that time Punch too will need modernization. Tata is too slow in R&D.

And this was the company that Mahindra looked up to for R&D strength. Remember reading that one of the senior Mahindras could only look at envy of Tata motor's R&D prowess in the 90s.

Off topic. The Tiago should ideally have been waiting for the facelift of its 2nd generation!!! Ofcourse, as usual TATA may kill off the brand for a new one than give it a proper second/next generation.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by DicKy

And this was the company that Mahindra looked up to for R&D strength. Remember reading that one of the senior Mahindras could only look at envy of Tata motor's R&D prowess in the 90s.

Tata should idealy form a parallel R&D division for it's BOF SUVs as it is doing for defence speciality vehicle division or work along with it as Safari GS800 SUV is rugged and has been certified and selected for off road duties. It would make an excellent speciality division.

[Doge]

BOF "cars" are on a roll now. I know someone who was looking to upgrade from his Safari Strome but didn't like the new Safari one bit, he didn't know what it was as he's not a big car enthusiast but just described it as lacking that special feel.
BOF cars have that special charm and character which monocoque competitors just don't have. Furthermore they feel tough and indestructible on broken Indian roads. It's no wonder that the Thar, Scorpio, Fortuner etc have been so successful now. Even brands like Maruti have joined the group now.
It's not just India, BOF true blue SUVs are just plain cool now. G wagon, Wrangler, Jimny or Land Cruiser are all among the hottest and most desirable cars in their price brackets.

[self_driven]

It would be utterly foolish of a carmaker to make fresh investments on BoF platform now. In India, an average customer doesn't even think about platform when buying a car. People quoting examples of Safari and Scorpio need to understand that there are a lot of other factors at play, brand name being one of them. Let Mahindra sell Safari and see the magic.

There's a reason why monocoque construction has ruled the roost for years. It trumps BoF in parameters that matter the most i.e. safety, comfort and handling. Abuse-friendliness and durability are two areas where BoF is said to be better, but are there any instances where a modern monocoque was found lacking?

Before someone calls me out for bashing BoF vehicles, my current drive is a BoF but I would've still picked it if it was monocoque.

[G13BB]

There is definitely a market for BOF and there will always be. The charm, character and the desirability of a BOF is unmatched. Ofcourse, most of the buyers might not even worry about the platform or the construction, but those who know would definitely appreciate it.

As cars are becoming more and more soul-less, most of the BOFs stay true to their roots. Even though 99% of SUV owners do not take them off road, people would still be attracted to BOFs for the sheer status and flex. Else MS wouldn't have got the Jimny to India at this point of time!

[s2K_scorpioN]

Originally Posted by G13BB

The charm, character and the desirability of a BOF is unmatched.

Well said. BOF is BOF. Let me give you an analogy. The human body has a skeletal structure and a muscular structure. In a BOF vehicle, the chassis is the skeletal backbone, providing the main support structure, while the body attached to it is like the muscle, giving shape, function, and flexibility. Together, they form a complete, functional entity, just as the skeleton and muscles do in the human body.

In this analogy, a monocoque body is like Harry's broken arm when Hagrid tries to heal it

[HillMan]

BOF not for the mass market is my opinion. It is good for enthusiasts, professionals and transport industry.

How many of us really go true off-road or haul heavy luggage really. The current generation of SUVs do a good job on the city potholes, unrated roads and door sill water logging without a BOF.

Most people dispose the cars between 5-10yr of ownership. So do you really need to buy an indestructible ride that is designed to last your lifetime when the govt policies are against it.