[07CR]

This comes from one of my friends who purchased a Harrier facelift with ADAS in early November last year. He's very happy with the way the car looks, road presence, power from 2.0 Litre engine and interior space. He is also frustrated with few electronic niggles (memory seat failure, passenger side ventilated seat not working, Auto Hold malfunctions etc.). However he was aware of these trade-offs and has made peace with it.

However, he is extremely frustrated that the Lane Keep Assist feature has still not been enabled for him by Tata. During delivery, he was promised that the lane keep assist feature would be later enabled via a software update. His monthly travel includes around 2K Kms exclusively on the Samruddhi Mahamarg and he desperately misses the LKA function. He has driven a Hector facelift with ADAS, my Seltos facelift on the same highway and used the LKA function extensively. I too agree on such undivided highways the LKA and Lane follow assist functions on my car definitely make it very easy, safe to navigate long distances and feel sorry for my friend.

He now intends to move to the legal route and asks me/TBhp members if the same is right way? If not, is there any aftermarket accessory/vendor who can enable the LKA?

Are there any other instances where the manufacturer promised a certain feature only to be never offered for a customer? Personally, I am shocked that the LKA is still not enabled by Tata even for new Harrier/Safaris. What's stopping them? Are they not confident about it/or the new steering setup?

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Are there any other instances where the manufacturer promised a certain feature only to be never offered for a customer? Personally, I am shocked that the LKA is still not enabled by Tata even for new Harrier/Safaris. What's stopping them? Are they not confident about it/or the new steering setup?

For Tatas to not have LKA even on top variants is not good for brand value.

There is no legal case if it is not offered in black and white.

LKA is a very complex system that improves ADAS features. It depends heavily on camera and lidar sensors. Even a small lag in processing and internal communication can be fatal on highways. These are classified as safety critical and there are stringent norms to be complied with. Even if the software is developed by the manufacturer the system will need to be trained for the dynamics of each vehicle. This training and of the algorithm is the most time consuming process.

Yes it can be released as a software update in future if necessary components are in place. ADAS is not something that can be installed aftermarket it is not just a software with a set of sensors.

I'll suggest to wait and watch. If LKA was a necessary feature then Harrier/Safari was not a good choice in anticipation of a feature release.

[TorqueIndia]

Tata Motors clearly says only Lane Departure warning and Lane Change Alert are present in SAFARI, no LKA offered so far.

The 10 ADAS features available with SAFARI are :

Forward collision warning,
Autonomous emergency braking,
High beam assist,
Lane departure warning,
Lane change alert,
Blind spot detection,
Door open alert,
Traffic sign recognition,
Rear cross-traffic alert and
Rear collision warning.


Tata Motors

ADAS variants starts at 23.49L

[bhaskaracs]

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

Tata Motors clearly says only Lane Departure warning and Lane Change Alert are present in SAFARI, no LKA offered so far.

Attachment 2625404
Tata Motors

There is this small matter of Tata Harrier offering a button on their Steering wheel to activate LKA . So what they do on their website is of no concern to current owners.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by HillMan

LKA is a very complex system that improves ADAS features. It depends heavily on camera and lidar sensors. Even a small lag in processing and internal communication can be fatal on highways. These are classified as safety critical and there are stringent norms to be complied with. Even if the software is developed by the manufacturer the system will need to be trained for the dynamics of each vehicle. This training and of the algorithm is the most time consuming process.

Thanks, my friend was of the opinion that such feature could be turned on just like we have seen cruise control being fitted in Ecosport lower variants by FORSCAN.

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

Tata Motors clearly says only Lane Departure warning and Lane Change Alert are present in SAFARI, no LKA offered so far.

They might claim so, but I distinctly remember media channels quoting that Tata Motors has mentioned that LKA would soon be available through a software update. Same was mentioned in Tbhp review-

Originally Posted by Omkar

the lane keep assist button on the right bottom is not active yet. Tata is still in the final stages of fine-tuning the system and will probably introduce it next year.

Also the dealership did mention the same when the car was being sold. Availability of Lane Keep assist button on the steering wheel also confirms that the feature could be provided via software update, makes no sense of providing this button otherwise. The agonizing wait for this feature has made him frustrated. IMO Tata should atleast provide an ETA for this to be activated.

[Enigmatic]

Originally Posted by 07CR

He now intends to move to the legal route and asks me/TBhp members if the same is right way? If not, is there any aftermarket accessory/vendor who can enable the LKA?

Thank you so much for starting this thread.

I too have a facelifted Safari (Accomplished + 6S) and it is very disheartening that Tata has not lived upto its promise of providing lane keep assist via a software update.

I remember at the time of launch, there were numerous news reports which stated that the facelifted variants will get lane keep assist via software update (including one on team-bhp: https://www.team-bhp.com/news/tata-h...oftware-update).

While software updates keep on coming (I have received around 4 since I got the car in February 2024), the wait for the lane keep assist continues. This is nothing but a legal case waiting to happen.

Best,
Enigmatic

[audioholic]

Typical Tata system of poor planning and integration and boy, they haven't learnt from the days they fitted a hydraulic power steering on the pre facelift and could not offer any steering related ADAS features. The ADAS features that they currently offer are the ones which are easy to integrate and get going with minimal testing. However, lane keep assist requires a lot of tuning of the controller and the EPS to get it right. That's going to take a lot of testing hours and that's not what Tata is famous for Hence there would be a delay in launching this since folks at TaMo will be trying to let the supplier do this job and vice versa.

It will come some day, but should have been there from the beginning itself, if they had to learn a thing or two from brother Mahindra. Testing efforts between the companies is the main difference and reason.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by 07CR

He is also frustrated with few electronic niggles (memory seat failure, passenger side ventilated seat not working, Auto Hold malfunctions etc.). However he was aware of these trade-offs and has made peace with it.

While I understand the frustration of not getting what he was promised, I must also applaud the bravery & optimism of your friend.

Personally, I'd be terrified to use any ADAS feature from a company that still can't get memory seats or auto hold to work!!

And I'd be even less likely to pressure them into bringing the feature to market sooner than they are comfortable with.

[Earthroamer]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

While I understand the frustration of not getting what he was promised, I must also applaud the bravery & optimism of your friend.

Personally, I'd be terrified to use any ADAS feature from a company that still can't get memory seats or auto hold to work!!

And I'd be even less likely to pressure them into bringing the feature to market sooner than they are comfortable with.

Hahaha. I don't understand the "frustration" of the friend of the author of this thread. Is he saying that his harrier is unable to keep in lane while driving without the LKA? While I understand that the company needs to deliver what it had promised to its customer and agree with customers entitlement, LKA is such a useless feature, especially on our roads and it can be downright dangerous. If someone gets "so tired" for keeping his/her hands on the steering wheel so that the vehicle stays in the lane, at that point they should quit driving and employ a driver. No full-autonomous driving tech can beat that, which our country provides at a very cheap cost as opposed to the western nations. I don't know why our customers are hell bent on requirement of ADAS, ready to pay premium for it and disabling it after it's novelty wanes down.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by audioholic

It will come some day, but should have been there from the beginning itself, if they had to learn a thing or two from brother Mahindra. Testing efforts between the companies is the main difference and reason.

Does Mahindra do the testing and calibration of the ADAS system themselves or the vendors do it for them?

[07CR]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Personally, I'd be terrified to use any ADAS feature from a company that still can't get memory seats or auto hold to work!!

I agree. That said, he thinks that he can always step in incase the LKA does usual tata stuff. I know that's DANGEROUS!

Originally Posted by Earthroamer

Hahaha. I don't understand the "frustration" of the friend of the author of this thread. Is he saying that his harrier is unable to keep in lane while driving without the LKA? While I understand that the company needs to deliver what it had promised to its customer and agree with customers entitlement, LKA is such a useless feature, especially on our roads and it can be downright dangerous.

He's paid some big bucks at 28 lakhs or so for this car. I have already mentioned he drives extensively on samruddhi mahamarg where the adas functions are extremely helpful. He has driven my seltos and a mg hector on same highway and commented the LKA and LFA in my seltos and the lane keep function of hector made driving on such roads very comfortable. IMO on such multi lane highways adas has been very beneficial for me.

Therefore I completely understand the frustration. Except autonomous braking in City ( yet to try it) I regularly use all adas functions and have been helpful quite a few times.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by damodar

Does Mahindra do the testing and calibration of the ADAS system themselves or the vendors do it for them?

Both sides, like a joint effort. The better the collaboration is, better will be the results and the time taken to roll out the feature to market. Typically the LKA system computer will issue steering rack force/front wheel angle requests to the EPS module which will perform the steering action required. This is a closed loop system which continuously works together to perform the right amount of correction needed without overdoing or under doing whats needed. I have spent nearly 3 years doing this work for an international brand and still we have scenarios to fine tune. Compared to this feature, things like Blind spot warning, Collision braking etc are not so difficult to calibrate. With Tata, even for other components they expect the vendors to do things like on site troubleshooting of customer cars at dealerships etc whereas M&M have an excellent engineering team that does the ground work themselves and only routes the final analysis to the vendors to resolve any issue. I’m not associated with either companies but am pretty well aware of the way both orgs function and deal with their vendors.

While both desi manufacturers have their share of niggles, one company handles and learns well over time while the other just ends up in new niggles.

[satyamkolhe]

Originally Posted by audioholic

With Tata, even for other components they expect the vendors to do things like on site troubleshooting of customer cars at dealerships etc whereas M&M have an excellent engineering team that does the ground work themselves and only routes the final analysis to the vendors to resolve any issue. I’m not associated with either companies but am pretty well aware of the way both orgs function and deal with their vendors.

While both desi manufacturers have their share of niggles, one company handles and learns well over time while the other just ends up in new niggles.

I have quite a few friends and relatives working for vendors to Tata and Mahindra or directly working in their Pimpri and Chakan plant respectively.

From the stories I've heard, what you said is absolutely right. The amount of work Mahindra is putting in to improve is being noticed by everyone and not much has changed on ground in case of Tata. To me it feels like Mahindra is a car manufacturer whereas Tata acts more like a car assembler.

Even though the sales are pretty good right now for Tatas, if their car reliability doesn't improve, I think it will do more harm to them in the longer term since these same people facing problems now will think twice before considering another Tata again.

Patriotism can only take them so far and even after 5 Star GNCAP ratings, the cars aren't really safe for anyone if basic things like Auto Hold and other electronic features aren't working properly. It actually makes the car more unsafe than the so called "Unsafe" cars which are more reliable.

[SlowerthanMaps]

I have a theory that Tata motors is reserving this feature's hype for their upcoming Curvv. I believe they will offer all the level 2 ADAS features in the Curvv since they are positioning it in the compact SUV segment which is the most competitive one on the market with the likes of Creta, Seltos, Taigun, Kushaq, GrandVitara etc etc. Many of them do offer lane keep assist and a newly launched Curvv definitely wont miss out on it.

Once LKA is available on Curvv, I think they will roll it out on Harrier Safari facelifts via the software update route. Anyways, the infotainment system and steering controls of the leaked shots on Curvv look similar to whats there on Safari Harriers.

This means another couple of months wait for the owners of the car. I myself had booked Safari in May expecting LKA to be rolled out by the time I get my unit delivered but nope! Still waiting...

[07CR]

Originally Posted by SlowerthanMaps

Many of them do offer lane keep assist and a newly launched Curvv definitely wont miss out on it.

Once LKA is available on Curvv, I think they will roll it out on Harrier Safari facelifts via the software update route. Anyways, the infotainment system and steering controls of the leaked shots on Curvv look similar to whats there on Safari Harriers.

I don't think it's that simple. Even the sub4 metre SUVs are offering LKA (Venue,Sonet,XUV3XO), but the updated Nexon didn't have it.

None of the Curvv pics till now have had the radar visible at the front. If they do offer the ADAS, it looks like it will be camera based only.

That said, reason the Harrier/Safari don't have it yet, is probably because of the new steering. They might still be testing the same, the testing though has been awfully long now.