[thirdmainroad]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Er, a how would you classify a Fortuner which does not have the 4x4 kit? Or rather a Compass with 4x4? And to make it even more interesting, where does the Jimny fit into this? That’s a 4x4, Body on Frame vehicle, right?

I think a Fortuner, regardless of 4 X 4 is a SUV, and so is the Compass and XUV700.

A Thar, Jimney, Willys, Bolero, XUV300 - a Jeep.

A Creta, Taigun, X1, Kushaq, Seltos, Nexon, Duster- Crossovers.

Punch, Fronx, Ignis, Brezza, Exter, Ignis, i20 - Hatchbacks.

I think why I started this thread really is to point out that vehicles above - Punch, Exter etc are most definitely not SUVs!

[It's Magic]

When you talk about proper SUVs like the Fortuner or Endeavour, they would cost you more than 20-25 lakhs and have amazing road presence. Obviously, everyone wants to own such SUVs, but they are costly.

Looking at people’s aspiration towards SUVs, manufacturers came up with the brainwave idea of compact SUVs. It started with the Duster and found success with models like the Creta, Seltos, and others. As a result, SUVs became available in the 15 lakh price bracket.

With the success of these compact SUVs, manufacturers replicated the formula in smaller cars like the Punch or Exter.
The fact that the Punch has become the highest-selling car underscores people’s craze for SUV design, and manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Rodie09]

I don't think it really matters what you call SUV and what you not. What really matters is the reason why people want the SUVs or pseudo SUVs. There are lot of practical reasons in India why sedan sales dropped and these SUV sales have picked up.

I think same.thing happened when sedan category was abused with all the chopped versions of sedans.

No one, specially In India would buy a car worth multiple lacs just for the tag SUV.

IMHO taking the purist way does not really matter in the market.

And how many buyers of true SUVs really go for off roading even once?

[greenhorn]

As per the GST Council, an SUV is a vehicle that meets all the three below criteria

Length: More than 4 meters
Engine capacity: 1,500 cc or more
Ground clearance: 170 mm or more

The US Govt defines an SUV as

section b of 49 CFR § 523.5 stipulates that it must be either rated at over 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight (GVWR) or have four-wheel drive and additionally meet at least four of the following five characteristics / criteria:

• An approach angle of not less than 28 degrees

• A breakover angle of not less than 14 degrees

• A departure angle of not less than 20 degrees

• A running clearance of not less than 20 centimeters (7.87402 inches)

• Front and rear axle clearances of not less than 18 centimeters (7.08661 inches) each

[MT_Hyderabad]

Some relevant information was shared here:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ining-suv.html (Defining an SUV)

[IshaanIan]

I don’t think anyone is being fooled if car makers are even found guilty of false advertising because everyone knows what they can and can’t go off road in. Infact here in India with half our driving populous undeserving of a license, everyone is a little too cautious about the terrain their vehicles can handle. The number of high gc vehicles I see crawling to a standstill at the slightest rumble strip or puddle is testament to the fact that no one is being fooled into thinking they are buying an SUV. They just want the high seating position so that they can avoid scraping and bumping into the objects they still somehow manage to.

If you or anyone else you know is still being mislead by manufacturers labelling their boxy hatchbacks on stilts as SUVs then perhaps a refresher driving course is due.

[for_cars1]

Any Body-on-frame or monocoque, 2-box shaped vehicle capable of carrying 4 to 8 passengers , with higher than sedan/hatchback ground clearance, with AWD or 4WD capability(with or without a low range gearbox, part time or full time 4WD/AWD) that can be driven off paved roads if needed qualifies as a real SUV.

If the vehicle with the above description does not have either 4WD or AWD feature, then it may still be called an SUV while being referred to and that is perfectly alright, but it would still be a pseudo-SUV (can't be a real SUV without 4WD/AWD)

[RunGaDa]

The question arises because there are too many Mini SUV, Compact SUV terms flying. Everyone seem to align with SUV word and tag any contraption as SUV.

According to me a SUV is a big vehicle which may be two rows seats or three rows, having high ground clearance, tall stance, solid build quality, allowing it to clearly stand out from the hatch back lot.
The 4X4, off roading, etc can be Add ons and not mandatory.
It should be bigger than a cross over and should also be able to differentiate between that.

[fhdowntheline]

I would like to keep it simple- Sport-Utility Vehicle. Meaning, it should have utility to indulge in Sport (leisure off roading) and also utility to navigate tough terrain like farm roads, far off mountain villages, jungles, water wading.
By that definition, only the 4x4 cars like Jimny, Thar, Force Gurkha, Fortuner, Isuzu V Cross, Hilux, MuX qualify. Other vehicles such as AWD may qualify for some "sport" but not much real utility.
The rest are crossovers at best with all show and no go (for an SUV).

[wheelspinner]

SUVs are not merely people carriers with a bunch of extra seats/rows. It's a rugged sporty vehicle, serving a purpose more than normal city drives. Ideally with a strong ladder on frame chassis. One that would make me feel comfortable driving on our rural roads with a density of 4-5 potholes per metre of road. It should glide through big craters on roads, and absorb big speed breakers like "makkhan" - this is one trait I have seen in the original Safari. 4x4 isn't a strong need, but off-road characteristics are of prime interest to me.

The utility of SUVs is what matters in my opinion. They should perform very well for off-road situations, not very hard core but rural and muddy areas. This is in addition to road manners in urban situations.

Truth be told, it's not for everyone. I hate the body roll. Sometimes it's too much. When I drove our Scorpio out on the highways, as I usually drive quite fast and enthusiastically (100-120 Kmph) cornering/overtaking rapidly, I felt nauseated. With sharp movements, it made my head too heavy. I had to give the steering wheel duty to my friend as I was about to faint out of the headache. So it's not everyone's cup of tea. Maybe, I am simply not experienced enough to maneuver SUVs, and not a frequent driver

[Eleanor_Shelby]

For me if you have basic features (Rugged), 4X4 and ladder on frame chassis you should be called a offroader. Eg. gurkha, thar, Scorpio, Hilux, Izuzu V cross, gypsy etc.

If you have Ladder on frame with a heavy built, ground clearance, 4X4, more creature comforts, you're an SUV. Eg Scorpio(n), Fortuner, endeavour, escalade, suburban, yukon etc.

If you have the ground clearance, size, monocoque chasis and no 4X4 ( AWD is not 4X4) it should be called a Soft-roader or Cross Utility Vehicle. Eg Xuv700, CRV ( Compact Recreational Vehicle), Jeep compass etc.

If its some of the above with more comfort and space and a 7/8 seater it's an MUV.

Everything else is compact/midgets on stilts car.

[PrasannaDhana]

Anything that takes unnecessary space, burns too much fuel, has aerodynamics of a brick, costs too much money and boosts ego of owners

Jokes aside, SUV to me, are cars that can take some abuse, travel through bad roads, wade atleast 300 mm of water, have atleast 200 mm GC & sufficient power to haul loads (7 passengers).

Not necessarily having 4x4 or AWD

[Guna]

Originally Posted by thirdmainroad

I think a Fortuner, regardless of 4 X 4 is a SUV, and so is the Compass and XUV700.

A Thar, Jimney, Willys, Bolero, XUV300 - a Jeep.

A Creta, Taigun, X1, Kushaq, Seltos, Nexon, Duster- Crossovers.

Punch, Fronx, Ignis, Brezza, Exter, Ignis, i20 - Hatchbacks.

I think why I started this thread really is to point out that vehicles above - Punch, Exter etc are most definitely not SUVs!

There is no category of vehicles like 'Jeep' (as we know Jeep is a brand). What you have listed are simply the ladder frame based SUVs which often came with soft (tarpaulin) top and utilitarian interior/exterior. XUV300 doesn't fit in to this category.
If XUV700 2WD is an SUV, I wonder how Kia Karens is not.

[ruskinash]

[Rocketscience]

On a technical front I agree with the thread but with the self righteousness of the entire sentiment and branding the entire market, its buyers and the entire ecosystem of these things as a pointless joke is just ego massaging oneself in my books.

What I mean is, the likes of X1, Q3, Creta and the others which are all the rage worldwide are actually great on road cars, the REAL SUVs have been and always will be a niche category, almost all the Thar owners I have come across drive their vehicles 98-100% in urban and highway environments, while the cars mentioned above are quantum leaps superior on the road than these real SUVs, simply because they are designed that way.

For any average person these car's ride, handling, NVH, the features and everything are pretty much like an equivalent sedan or hatchback while they offer all the practical benefits of SUVs in these environments that they have a much better ground clearance, high and confident seating position and even in some cases imposing looks without much real drawbacks.

The real SUVs on the other hand are again way better in broken or no roads, in off road environments and make no fuss about it but the use case for most people is absolutely zero, so they instead settle on unsettled ride, dodgy handling and high speed stability and a lot of related quality of life features, so obviously real buyers and lovers of these products, who will use it and appreciate it for what they are are extremely low and it is an extreme niche segment of market.

I, in my almost 2 lakh KMs and 12+ years of experience and watching my dad for a further 2-3 lakh KMs and 25+ years have never came across a single use case where our hatchback, sedan got unsettled, uncomfortable leave alone stuck for its dear life because we have always ridden on city roads, single lane highways, expressways or paved mountain roads to major hill stations like everyone else. The Venues and Exter would naturally do just as good in these situations.

So I don't understand all the mockery and self importance in dismissing marketing terms and language used by car makers and general population for calling what essentially is an SUV for average person a SUV, well, for most people it really is and for the niche category they obviously know better and will not buy a Brezza and take it to an off-road trail and return back feeling cheated and defeated.

I personally belong to niche category in a lot of things in life, for example I care so deeply about the sound and video presentation of a movie that the print to have a high quality lossless sound with atleast a 5.1/7.1/atmos mix and I have over the years built as good a system I could afford and got parts from USA, London, from cinema hall distributors across India and still keep on refining, tuning and constantly upgrading it, I absolutely despise watching a movie on a TV with TV speakers, sound bars or on laptops and mobile phones, but I am fully aware that I am in the niche category and the general population just does not care, the problem is not in their aloofness for settling for a less than ideal and insult to original content and experience of the entire thing, I enjoy doing these things but don't consider everyone else who watches on mobile phones inferior, incorrect or plain wrong, that is a wrong sentiment to have in my books.

Similarly if someone truly loves the body on frame off roaders and are enthusiastic and passionate about it and regularly use village roads or artificially take their cars to those off road trails for fun then indulging oneself deeply and taking enjoyment and happiness in that must be a great and fulfilling experience, but at the same time dismissing the entire population in the world for their X1s, Brezzas and their Venues and looking down upon them is not right.