[DiMaGo]

What a wonderful post [not just the Opening post but the responses to it too], detailed, accurate and to the point!
I currently own 2 Marutis Viz. the Ertiga 1.5L Diesel and WagonR. Apart from the practicality + mileage aspect + servicing options, I am feeling let down these days when I read new car reviews and what all they offer which my car 'lacks'.

There was a Carens purchased about 2 years back in our extended family and I could find a Sea of difference between my Ertiga 1.5L Diesel and the Carens Diesel, not just in driveability but also in the features offered, comfort and may I also add ownership experience. Man, the Koreans have a skill or two in designing vehicles that takes us by storm. I have many of my friends preferring the MUVs these days and many are not even looking at Maruti. They start with Mahindra, Tata and a few, who have 'budget constraint' settle for Kia, though I feel Kias are also definitely NOT any less these days.

One of the important aspect of a car is how it makes little children 'feel'. My kids are 12 and 6 years and they love the Carens more than our own Ertiga [I dont blame them!!].

[invidious]

I disagree. Suzuki commands a 40% market share. For all their prowess, Hyundai, Tata and Mahindra together don’t sell as many cars as Suzuki alone. The car is an aspirational product still. And Suzuki gives a fuss free ownership experience. It is not targeting enthusiasts - if it does, it gets its fingers burnt. People look at ownership costs and resale value. Only Hyundai comes close in those 2 aspects. The company I would compare it to is Bisleri. The name is synonymous with packaged drinking water. They are holding onto their market share even as the size of the market is increasing. Are their products cutting edge? No. Are they innovating fast enough? No. But do people trust them? Yes. What’s the mantra? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

[sac23]

20 years and still waiting for the Swift Sport to be launched in India.

There was a time in India when owning a bicycle was a big thing. Then came motorcyles, and they took over the glam. Subsequently, cars took over the aspirational value. As soon as car ownership started getting normal in India, people went on looking for more 'aspirational value'. And they found this in feature-rich Korean cars, performance-tuned German cars, well-built Indian cars with butch (read SUV) looks or even in pre owned luxury cars. All of this helped them stand out and gave them a sense of 'I have reached' that point in life where I can own such a car. This is the mentality of the general population. Enthusiasts who seek driver cars were always there; only that the number has increased exponentially. Thanks to YouTube.

Japanese brands, all of them: Suzuki, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, are all dependent on one or two models at most for their survival. This is akin to digging your own grave.

Interestingly, the same trend can be seen on motorcycles as well.
Which Japanese manufacturer has a fun-to-ride bike under 5L?

What happened to Japanese electronics manufacturers?

This is collectively saying something.

[sandeepmdas]

I have owned eight cars from 2004 until now, and not one of them was manufactured by MSIL. Therefore, I might not be the best person to comment in this thread.

Suzuki has a characteristic resistance to progress and innovation when it come to third-world markets; for instance, it continued to sell the same model of the 800 in Pakistan for 31 years without any changes. The Suzuki Mehran was the last production car in the world equipped with a carburetor. I believe Suzuki had similar plans for India, but Hyundai’s entry into the market compelled them to launch better products.

As many have pointed out, several world-class models like the Kizashi and the original Grand Vitara didn’t take off or were perhaps too advanced for their time in our market. A company of Maruti’s stature could have sustained the losses and maintained these models in the market. Hyundai did just that with their Tucson/Santa Fe(?) and Sonata, which helped them solidly establish a premium image in India despite selling less than 1000 or so such CBU cars.

In my opinion, the pivotal moment was in 2007 when the Government of India divested Maruti Udyog Ltd. to Suzuki, its joint venture partner. Instead, I believe the Government of India should have taken a different approach by buying Suzuki out into Maruti. This could have ensured that MUL received advanced technology, access to global markets (considering Suzuki was performing better back in 2007 before facing competition from Chinese automakers), and most importantly, operational autonomy.

The concept of a company acquiring a controlling interest in its larger foreign partner isn’t far-fetched. Take GMM Pfaudler as an example; Gujarat Machinery Manufacturers Ltd was established in 1962 and partnered with Pfaudler, an American corporation, in 1988, becoming GMM Pfaudler.

This timeline is quite similar to Maruti’s history, with one key difference: unlike the Government of India, GMM Pfaudler acquired a controlling stake in Pfaudler USA in 2021.

[Mystic]

Maruti is a unique company started as a Japanese joint venture with Indian Government unlike other successful joint ventures like Hero Honda with a private company.

One can go through the history in its many wiki pages which narrated all the history and political involvement that happened with this unique company.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruti_Suzuki

My 2 cents: Maruti had the blessings of Japanese engineering and Indian Government. This joint venture became an instant hit with almost half market share in India. To sustain at a number 1 position for long is not easy especially with the exit of Indian Government and its blessings. For the past 2 decades it is a professionally managed automobile company like any other. Some decisions by the top leadership had its good and bad influence on the company which is normal.

When we think of Maruti, we think of Japanese culture in its genes. The whole world respects Japanese culture and hence we get a piece of mind when buying the car that it has minimal niggles as it is built with Japanese quality assurance.

Indians will be seeing Maruti cars for a very long time even if their innovation has taken a back seat in the recent past. I am sure it will be in the top 5 positions with ICE engines.

We only have to see if EV takes over the automotive industry and Chinese and Tesla come to India in a big way. Then we may see new names in the top 5 and Maruti may miss the opportunity to be a big player. Until then Maruti will be synonymous to a people car in India.

[Fuldagap]

Let's also not forget that Maruti is a specialist in making small cars while others are genrallyhave myriad of other products and come from a lineage of trucks and tractors and other heavy vehicles.
Maruti knows the needs and wants of the customer much better than the rest currently.

Maruti has only recently ventured into the commercial segment, that too in light & small ones. While others are still foraying and experimenting with small cars, starting from the Indica, Maruti has been giving peace of mind, trustworthy and fuss free cars for so long now. With a Maruti one doesn't have to think about being stranded ever even with family onboard, no matter the road, time or weather conditions.
Can't be confidently said the same for brands like Mahindra, Tata even when their products touch Innova territory as far as price range is concerned.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by invidious

I disagree. Suzuki commands a 40% market share. For all their prowess, Hyundai, Tata and Mahindra together don’t sell as many cars as Suzuki alone. The car is an aspirational product still. And Suzuki gives a fuss free ownership experience. It is not targeting enthusiasts - if it does, it gets its fingers burnt. People look at ownership costs and resale value. Only Hyundai comes close in those 2 aspects. The company I would compare it to is Bisleri. The name is synonymous with packaged drinking water. They are holding onto their market share even as the size of the market is increasing. Are their products cutting edge? No. Are they innovating fast enough? No. But do people trust them? Yes. What’s the mantra? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Blackberry had a 90% market share in the premium phone segment and 20% of all mobile phone OS in 2009. By 2016 it had a market share of 0%. It failed to innovate, catch onto market trends and kept doing what it had always done.

GM was the world's #1 company by sales for 70 years till 2008. In 2009 it filed for chapter 11. It's #5 in sales today and declining in rank.

If you don't Innovate the principles of creative destruction will take you down.

MS in India themselves have seen a precipitous decline in market share the past 4 years. From a 50% share in 2020, down to 41% today and if you compare by average sticker price sold from 2014 to today it's decline is starker. India's most selling auto is not the cheapest Alto anymore, times are changing and MS refuses to

[Lalvaz]

Maruti Suzuki definitely seems to be having some issues to tackle, many of which have been highlighted by GTO and others. However it is still the market leader by far, and calling it irrelevant already, seems a tad overhyped. India has many different consumer segments, and just because you have not considered a MSIL vehicle for the last few years/decades, doesn't mean its the end of the road for MSIL.

Also its not fair to compare an automobile manufacturer and a electronic company, since their buying decisions are based on totally different criteria. Till today, people dont change their cars as often as their phones or laptops, so when they buy a car, they vote for reliability and efficiency, both areas where MSIL scores much above its competitors. Hyundai/Kia is the only notable competitor to MSIL and even they admire and look upto MSIL.

MSIL has indeed got to focus on the negative imaging, such as lack of desirable and safe cars, pathetic interior plastic quality, and ridiculous statements by some of its legendary leaders. They need to seriously introspect and do a course correction to ensure their continued dominance of the Indian market, which is opening up and has both increased purchasing power and aspirations.

[audioholic]

A lot said in this thread makes perfect sense. Lately, at least in the Urban areas I rarely see hype and buzz around Maruti dealerships. It would be interesting if there are any stats available about the split in Maruti sales in Tier 1 cities and smaller cities and how it has progressed over the last decade. Maruti Suzuki in the last decade has missed many buses, not just one and has failed to match up with current trends. And the effects of this has just begin to rattle the stakes of the company in our market. Last two years was a good ride thanks to post covid spike in demand and the semi conductor shortage. But now as things are beginning to stagnate or rather slow down, it's going to get worse for the company.

Where the company has majorly failed IMO:

• Failing to recognise the penetration of social media and influencers which Tata and Mahindra heavily cashed on and sticking to their usual special edition and mundane ad campaigns. As of today, how many social media influencers talk about Maruti v/s Tata or even Mahindra and even the German twins?
• Failing to nip the safety issues at the bud and being arrogant about introducing safety features, crash safety ratings etc. As awareness spreads over social media, it only will get worse for the company and I believe its too late for the company to come back on the bad reputation created, even if they have already changed a lot. People who are totally unconnected with automobiles today know that the average Maruti has pathetic build quality
• Total lack of innovation in emerging feature areas such as infotainment, ADAS, etc. The current line of cars have head units that have been shoehorned into the dashboard, and all the development credits will go to suppliers like Harman who have provided a modern head unit. But beyond this, the rest of the human interaction in the car is still a decade behind the competition.
• Lack of recognition of preferential and non volume customer groups - There are still takers for Diesels, Diesel ATs and also an increasing trend of enthusiast buyers looking out for higher performance. You cant ignore these just because they dont add significant numbers. However, they will still have chances of increasing sales by some numbers and a big company like MSIL can definitely afford to put this effort when smaller companies can do. Its just plain arrogance that people will accept the brand and what they come out with

Lastly, they spent heavily on small cars and making them more cost cut and less premium. But they never realised that bulk of the market is heading up to the 10-20L bracket and didn't enhance their portfolio there. If not for the Vitara, they would have not held a candle having only Brezza. To be fair to them, their Hybrid offering was the only respectable and game changing offering they have had and that's the only saviour in that price bracket.

Looking forward to how the next few months and years will be for the company. I hope lesser arrogance and an open mind would develop inside their management and they hop on to trends earlier than now. While the global players have already saturated in the electric vehicle space and looking back at ICE, Maruti is still a few months away from launching their first model.

[ZenMaster]

In a recent video by Hagerty, the presenter had stated the following about the VW group (in its heyday).

They did part-sharing with every model imaginable in their lineup.
But their philosophy was the following: Build a part that is good enough for the most expensive/best vehicle its going to be used in - then it will be good for all the models in which its going to be used irrespective of the vehicle class.

Thus the quality trickles down to even their smallest car while prices are controlled due to scale of production.

But reverse the logic and you will reach Maruti's philosophy and see the big gaping hole in it.

Maruti builds each part for the cheapest car its going to be used in (high on reliability but low on perceived quality). This means that these parts will never be good enough(quality wise) for a higher class of vehicle.

And therein lies the reason why Maruti seems to not be able to figure out how to build expensive cars. Therein lies the reason why their 20+lakh vehicles feels cheap and hollow.

[dkaile]

While we may consider ourselves as a Team of Enthusiasts, we are sometimes so out of touch with the ground realities, and this topic is a testament to that. Maruti has the 'pulse' of the Indian market and while we are a very aspirational nation, the vast market still resides in teir 2 and 3 cities. In the same way Intel outsells Apple by more than 5 times.

While I may enjoy the luxuries of my Skoda Superb, the practicality of my Maruti Baleno, still beats it hands down in the actual road conditions, that we survive everyday. So while we may aspire to have the latest and greatest and criticise Maruti for not being top of the line in things like ADAS etc., we forget the practicality of our Indian roads. Case in point and I am quoting from Gavin D'Souza from Autocar India (May 2024 issue) on the practicality of ADAS -

First order of the day is to switch off ADAS (on Hyundai Creta).... It's a potential hazard on Mumbai's crowded and chaotic roads.

Cheers...

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by dkaile

So while we may aspire to have the latest and greatest and criticise Maruti for not being top of the line in things like ADAS etc., we forget the practicality of our Indian roads. Case in point and I am quoting from Gavin D'Souza from Autocar India (May 2024 issue) on the practicality of ADAS -


Cheers...

There is a reason why most of the reviews and user experience of ADAS is on the negative side. That's because none of the manufacturers extensively test these systems in our traffic conditions. Except Mahindra, most other OEMs have not adapted their systems to our conditions. They buy an ADAS product from a supplier, integrate it with their cars and call it done. Neither does the supplier nor the manufacturer perform detailed tests. The test vehicles are mainly driven on open roads keeping endurance in mind and to gather kms. Hence, theses issues are not attended to at the system level. Most of the competition being low volume players, they cannot negotiate with suppliers to make extensive system changes to suit our traffic conditions.

That's where Maruti had an advantage, being a company which sells high volumes of cars. They took the risk with AMT, Hybrid, CNG and could have easily rolled out an India specific ADAS offering. Due to their higher volumes, suppliers would be able to afford redevelop their systems to suit our conditions and offer better driver experience with these features. In return, Maruti could have made this an option across their carlines and helped in continuous improvement. That's where the lack of innovation stands out. Forget about having a drive for such features, they openly disregard it. That's what is the attitude that will hit them back in the long run.

[Pam81]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Maruti maybe working on a Hybrid that would be cost effective for small cars, if that works the tables will turn and Tata`s focus on small cars and EVs will be a big problem.

Very valid point. However, that raises lots of questions.

Hybrid, even in it's entry level form, adds good amount of cost. MSIL's economics and ability to provide affordable cars stems from use of same parts among cars. To achieve, similar scale in Hybrid will take time (read: they need to bleed first to capture volumes). Second issue is, cost of electronics increased really high, even if they import from Japan at a favorable rate, unless consumers flock for their cars, it is not going to be economical. Plus, the price gap of ICE vs HEV is not lucrative either. It will be beneficial to dissect Hybrid sales from ICE for HyRyder, HyCross, Grand Vitara while HONDA City is not impressive anyway to understand the current economic sense of the market. For sure, it's a good technology, but is the market weighs the benefits for having twin powertrain (ICE & Electric, packing all them in a small footprint is not a joke) in <10L cars with lots of conflicting trade-offs (space, FE, price) to name few.

IMHO, MSIL need to do heavy homework on Hybrids to make it affordable and pull people to take them. Their old & dirty tricks on SHVS won't work this time.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by audioholic

There is a reason why most of the reviews and user experience of ADAS is on the negative side.

I personally will not comment on any of the points raised in this thread for I have been reading about doomsday scenarios and Suzuki's obituary in India first when Daewoo and Hyundai entered India, then when Toyota targetted masa segment in India, then when TATA launched the Indica etc etc. Suzuki is a very small company on the global scale and more so when compared to Conglomerates like TATA, Mahindra, Hyundai etc. But they do know how to survive among the giants in Japan and make money. So, let's see what the future holds.

However ADAS is a very very important topic. Just sometime back, I attended the NCAP conference in Europe. The ADAS presentations and subsequent discussions were an eye opener. It seems as compared to Europe or US, for India the ADSS camera has to identify 4-5 times the number of objects. Also, there are nuances like pedestrian legs not being recognisable due to usage of Saris, Dhotis etc. The ADAS makers are really struggling to develop a competent and effective Indian road conditions specific ADAS system. In a nutshell, the present ADAS system in cars in India are ineffective (politely speaking) and based on the You-Tube videos I saw, can be termed criminal as well due to unnecessary confidence that it gives the driver. ADAS will develop in India as per our needs but it will take time. The current plug and play system in Indian cars including Benz and BMW are Europe specific and not customised for India.

[man_and_machine]

It's sometimes the too big to fail mentality that allows a pause in thinking new. It's like the same SBI / LIC feeling (nothing against these quoting them for similarity). The large strata of the market in still in the 8 - 15 L, and there clearly Maruti seems to have read the mind, the heart and the purse of that bracket of users. You still today have to reach people to wear a seat belt before you start, and surely these people are not looking for a 5 start filter or a ventilated seat before making a buying decision in that segment.
Its mobility than quality mobility for the bottom of the pyramid (meaning cost pyramid, not meaning social disparity or in a negative sense). If there its more safe, more better handler or better tech that doesn't directly affect consumer behaviour it's a plus, not a deal breaker.
However, none is this is an excuse to take ownership of the future and behave like Tata, which surely operates in the same same space too, but has also grown vertically into the aspirational segment.
I guess, this agreement with Toyota is what is holding Maruti back, and as a corporate strategy. When you bet on changes viz. tech, product and direction it's a very big investment. So either you have the stomach for it, or you are a skilful strategist. Maruthi is banking on Toyota to seed the future. Its letting Toyota do all the experiments and once a certain path is proven, just get into executing it with the frugal optimisation it's known for.
The direction on EV, Diesel, TurboPetrol etc, is all coming off the Toyota playbook. In a sense Maruti is now the junior partner in the Ghatbhandan.
Let's say hybrid is the winning strategy for the next two decades for whatever reasons, Maruti will have the right budget built product there. It's its EVs it will draw from the big T's network and will have a Baleno, WagonR EV version etc. This is the wait and watch phase on Maruthi. I would as far as go and say that Maruti is the new Apple. Make incremental changes without path changing product changes and keep the market engaged. When the market takes a definitive turn execute brutally on a VFM product, use the large network, the goodwill and sell well.
As a customer Maruti is a let down, but as a shareholder this brilliant.