[7000plusrpm]

The 1.5L diesel engine was on sell for about an year. However, the RnD spends were probably huge for something that would be on sell for just a year. I still can't believe the Maruti wasted valuable resources behind that engine.

But, they were aware that they will be going the hybrid way. And that might just make up for the lack of diesel option in the line up. After all, the market wants a Maruti for the mileage. And mouth watering mileage numbers for a city dweller can be achieved with a hybrid.

Maruti will take time to change its course. But it will survive. The urban crowd might move on to the supposedly greener postures but the rural and semi-urban crowd will still pick up the Marutis and that will be enough for them to survive another 3-5 years. By that time, the future will be clearer in terms of whether we are going electric or hybrid. And based on that, Maruti can go all in on hybrid or perform a course correction to EVs if required.

[SixPistons]

Originally Posted by ashis89

My father is a retired senior citizen who doesn’t have a keen eye towards cars anymore. And he has liked his Marutis as they’re reliable and offer uneventful ownership experience. So when said that Maruti is boring and most people with a half decent budget don’t look at a Maruti anymore, I was surprised.

That the market has moved on and Maruti is a laggard, even my father agrees.

I have been unhappy about Suzuki vehicles for a very long time. Their last nice hatchback design I feel was the 2005 Indian first gen swift. Baleno is good too, but Swift just had that really good feel. In fact, I even liked the original SX4 and Grand Vitara from back then. Lately, it feels like Maruti stopped innovating in designs on purpose after the 2016 around. The recent Grand Vitara being the exception with being a nicer design.

During the recent upgrade to a Cross Over SUV(or what we Indians generally call SUVs), my Dad was Gaga over Grand Vitara for its design and features and space and what not, and this was since its very launch. Naturally, I didn’t find Vitara to be VFM at all, what with the massively underpowered engine, dated interior design that reminds me of out Baleno, and part sharing with Suzuki own sub-10L price point cars(it feels like they haven’t updated those since the 2009 Swift VDI we had in the house), and the Suzuki logo that just not speak premium to me anymore.

I primed my dad by daring to not sit in the car if he bought a Grand Vitara (yeah, a grown man throwing fits like that really because a 20L+ underpowered Suzuki would be an eyesore to me). Despite that, we went ahead with a test drive of the step-sister Hyryder in its hybrid avatar. It was exactly like our Baleno from the inside, same hollow dashboard quality, same switch-console like the Baleno, the Instrument cluster also reminding us of the Baleno, as well as the seats and dash console design). The test drive was not too bad, it was fairly comfortable (though, rattly) on uneven unstructured surfaces, but as you pick up speed and you want to move faster, it felt struggling with even just 3 on board. And the noise as you pushed the Strong Hybrid combination was not appreciated after coming from the refinement of the smooth 1.2 petrol in our Baleno.

Cherry on top, the salesperson was so enthusiastic about selling the car, that he claimed this car came with 140+ horsepower. 110-something from the engine, rest from the hybrid(and you could climb the skies with this). I couldn’t resist calling his bluff about the Hybrid functions and max peak power. his only comeback was the highly fuel-efficient hybrid system that could deliver over 25 kmpl and features like 360-camera, panoramic sunroof and ventilated seats. Again, nothing interesting about the drive train.

This test drive was enough to convince my father that Suzuki is not innovating for India at all, that despite having ready access to a large stream of trusting customers, they are not serious about this market and they are completely out of touch. He walked out saying:

*Grand Vitara ka bhoot utar gaya hai*

I was happy and sad at the same time, the exterior design is likeable to me.

I believe this thing with Maruti could be due to a rather extra chilled out attitude of the Senior Management and folks on top, or maybe they are happy to cater to the first time car buyers/Cab Operators/middle-class who wants to pick a low-maintenance decently feature-packed vehicles at a price point.

[jetsetgo08]

They may be late but they never loose.

I may be wishful, but a 4 star safety rated swift or baleno or an Electric Wagon R or a diesel Grand Vitara will put them back to monopoly days. So, enjoy healthy competetion while MSIL is a laggard.

[veyron_head]

Its quite a conundrum if you ask me. Whenever Maruti did try to launch something different, it was a failure! The Kizashi, Jimny or even the Scross (which i believe is a moderate success). I saw a used Kizashi on youtube and it looks so contemporary even today. Yes they did goof up on the pricing, but then the value for money image is stuck like a chewing gum on them. Seems impossible to remove fully.

On the other hand, even in 2008 and 2010 when the world was still reasonably modern, they sold Omni with out a left side mirror. When I bought my Alto K10 LXi in 2011, I had to buy the mirror as an accessory! I don't believe their future story is going to be any rosy unless they flip their current strategy on its head and launch truly transformative products. Kia, Hyundai, Mahindra, Tata are all vying and well poised for the No.1 slot.

[shortbread]

Suzuki is a bits and pieces player in the international auto market. It's non existent in the biggest car markets like North America and China. Lack of desirable products, little to no innovation, cheap quality etc means it's simply unable to compete against global majors.

The Suzuki car business stands on just one leg.... INDIA! It's early start advantage, huge unmatched sales and service network, ability to make very cheap frugal small cars etc... meant that they enjoyed a dominant position in the Indian car market.

The problem Suzuki faces now is that the Indian consumer is growing, more knowledgeable and increasingly aspirational. In face of the changing Indian buyer, Suzuki faces the same challenges it sees in global markets. Making it worse is a stubborn, archaic management who are unable to accept change.

Make no mistake, it's ability to make cheap economical cars, huge dealership network and massive market share means that Suzuki India will keep happily chugging along for years to come. Nvidia has raced past Intel, but the latter still survives, so shall Suzuki India.

[RGK]

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Coming from the Suzuki heritage (known for small cars), Maruti did not consider creating large and sturdy vehicles.

They indeed introduced the highly effective and successful 1.3 Fiat diesel engine paired with precisely calibrated gears, pioneering a new era of efficient turbo diesels in the Indian automotive industry. However, they were left behind when it came to complying with BS6 regulations.

[Mr.Beat]

As someone who has bought and still owns a CIAZ, I wholeheartedly agree with GTO! However, I would like to make a few points:

• Many members have commented on the discontinuation of the 1.5 L diesel engine that powered the Ciaz. I saw a video by Autocar India which clearly explains why Maruti could not make the engine compliant with the BS6 emission norms. While they were aware of the incoming regulations, they ideally should have prepared better for it.
• The video also quotes an MSIL head mentioning that they now hold 50% of the market share in the segments they operate in (excluding diesel cars), which is quite impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZZQL8dSt3s

• One point that GTO missed, in my opinion, is safety. Indian consumers are more conscious than ever about the safety ratings of cars and are willing to pay a premium for better safety. Show me one car from MSIL that has a 5-star safety rating! They only added airbags to the base models after it was mandated by the government, if I recall correctly.

• MSIL sells and will continue to sell in good numbers for at least the next decade primarily because of its reach and reliability. You rarely hear about transmission failures or electronics issues in any MSIL car, which is a testament to their testing and QA/QC processes.

• While NEXA was an excellent strategic move, MSIL might need another brand to target the higher-end market (above 25 L) with the latest engines, transmissions, technology, and safety features.

[The Pianist]

Originally Posted by GTO

• Turbo-diesels still sell & that's a fact. One cannot be a market-leader and not offer an option that tens of thousands of customers choose each month. Especially in Crossovers, MPVs & SUVs, Maruti is at a serious disadvantage by not selling a diesel, when there is so clearly a market demand for them. The worst part is this = Maruti built a fantastic 1.5L turbo-diesel that totally wowed me

On a scale of 10, I'd give that Maruti diesel an 8.5 or 9. Shockingly, Maruti wasn't prepared for BS6 emission norms. Maruti's superb 1.5L diesel sold for about a year, before being pulled out of the market. Inexcusable, I tell you.

Maruti missed the Diesel bus by a mile.
If only they could've poured in R&D to make diesel better, they would've served at least 20% more customers in the lower end of the market and given 50% more options to the higher end customers to select Maruti.

A diesel heart for Invicto, Vitara and Jimny would've really helped the sales further. Especially when Turbo Petrol/Hybrid efficiency is only as good as a good Diesel engine. And the new fuel norms further bringing down overall fuel economy averages.

Contrary to popular belief, People still buy Diesels in the 14lac+ price categories.
A strong resale value for diesels is an indicator for this.

[Freespirit27]

Very nicely brought out. Some time back Toyoda san's dilemma of lack of innovation resonates with this post. Japanese cars culturally are meant for Japanese people - small, cute, frugal. Even their SUVs have started looking small like the Jimny (very cute and capable, but mostly out of place). Their idea of Crossover is to put cladding and raise the ride height of a Alto aka Espresso or a Baleno aka Fronx or Ertiga aka XL6.

I mean the need for imagination, customer connect has been numbed by the market share and maybe management paralysis. It is time the people defending it, restored their fabled, "Mere papa ki Maruti" for the sentimental value they seek (and I sincerely mean no offense, as they were the harbingers of change from the old Ambys and Premiers), because the same Amby moment has come for Maruti to fade into history and beautiful restoration threads, even if for there few classic models. Or bring in change!

[IFB]

Thanks for the write-up. Its really interesting.

We can also compare Maruti with Nokia.

Nokia moved slow, was unable to adopt to the customers preference, keep selling outdated models/technology.

What happened to them? Closed.

Maruti is sold mainly due to trust of customers on their products, service and mileage. Unless they adopt to the market trends and customers preference, it will be difficult for them to sustain in a longer run.

Also, not having an EV in their model portfolio (personally I don't like EV) will definitely impact them in coming years.

[Encyclopedic]

A 10 year old well maintained swift,honda city or Innova will seldom let you down.

I have a close friend who is going to sell his brand new Nexon Ev as it hasn't really lived upto his expectations(small niggles,low range etc).He is most probably going to exchange it with Creta or Hyryder hybrid. I am pretty sure that i will sell my diesel HT AT Thar as i feel i have reached the limit of patience in waiting for the parts.I am waiting for a window winder motor of my Thar ,which has failed for the second time,for the last 10 days.The window glass is stuck halfway down and i am unable to drive it in this summer without air conditioning.There has been many parts replaced under warranty previously and still some more needs to be replaced.How can i dedicate 10 days approx a year and around 50 calls a year just for warranty and parts availability issues.I am done.

All the technology and gimmicks go out of the window once your car is stationary due to a silly breakdown.

Everytime when we go out to buy something from the market we are invariably presented two options,one is a new product with new features and other is the old standard of the industry.Now, we may buy the new product sometimes due price , features etc only to later realise that the old trustworthy bland product may have done just fine.But here is the catch,small items can be bought over again and we gain life lessons but car ownership is costly and changing of car ownership is time consuming,in other words not like a microwave.So we need to get it right the first time.

I have recently acquired Maruti Invicto and it faster than everything in its price bracket.It corners great with minimal body roll, acceleration is addictive,ride is supple,space is unlike anything twice the price and returns great fuel economy.Also a bit off topic but i would like to add that driving a hybrid takes sometime getting used to.For eg a feather like input for great mileage is required and stomping on it fully for great acceleration.The modulation of accelerator pedal takes some time, atleast from my experience.

Also got Glanza recently,the ride is so supple,four pot engine defines refinement,returns great fuel efficiency and revvs like It's a great city car.

The point i want to make is that no shiny new tile will replace marble flooring.The Japanese have got it right in hybrids,diesel already feels like kerosine.All in all,a new car bought is just half the ownership experience,and the real story starts only when you visit the service centres(unnecessarily) or don't.

[Sensible_Speed]

While I wholeheartedly agree with your premise and arguments in favour, Maruti doesn't seem to be going anywhere in terms of reduced sales and such. The reason is, Maruti is a familiar brand that has consistently delivered on its ethos, i.e., to mobilize the country on 4 wheels. While other brands may have caught up to Maruti in some metrics, their overall packages and product placement don't have the kind of appeal a Maruti does.

While our populace rapidly climbs up the economic ladder, discretionary spending- what cars are considered as- still trends conservatively. Maruti have repeatedly capitalized on this factor by giving their consumers just enough, and not more. Add to this the peace of mind ownership, cheap maintenance and low-ish fuel costs a Maruti can afford you, and it becomes more and more lucid as the de-facto choice of 4 wheeled passenger vehicle for the masses.

To change this will need an upending of the entire market. An example of this is starting to emerge in the form of rising costs. The typical Maruti buyer has to pay a substantially larger amount to purchase a model that would've been easily buyable a mere 4 years ago. If this trend continues, there could emerge a drift towards other brands that make more sense at the new respective price brackets.

[Kosfactor]

Tata Punch!



This is the product that actually showcases what the market wants right now. Its something for all OEMs to take note.

You can buy it for a price that is similar to a Swift and yet it has plenty of features, safety, it has SUV looks which is aspirational too - So it means Tata did their homework, brought in their best.

Maruti maybe working on a Hybrid that would be cost effective for small cars, if that works the tables will turn and Tata`s focus on small cars and EVs will be a big problem.

[N4Nikunj]

What an excellent topic to read on Friday afternoon.

Indian manufacturers are winning because they've learned from the Indian market that the consumers will happily plonk their money. After all, the products are way better in terms of everything than the current Maruti consumer trend.

Safety (The most Important aspect today), Looks and Features, And fair pricing. Tata/Mahindra/Hyundai/kia has an edge in all departments.

Tata is winning because they're giving every available thing on a product. Petrol, CNG, Electric, Diesel, Manual, Automatic and the products are safer too.

The same goes for Hyundai/Kia as well but safety is a department that they need to look after. Still, They're improving and we can see the results as well. The new gen Verna is 5 Star now.

Suzuki is only enjoying a 40% share of business because of localization in parts and vehicle manufacturing. There is a car for everyone in their portfolio. An Alto to the XL6.

The major set for them was their No Diesel formula. They assumed that when we've 40%+ market share they can rule the market. After the launch of BS-6 in April'20 I always felt that Maruti-Suzuki would observe the market trend for Diesel and eventually launch the same after some time. But this was a half-baked attempt and it backfired big time for them.

I'm just imagining that what if the E15A Diesel with 6-speed AT that goes currently with Ertiga/XL6 got launched the other day? It could have given very tough competition to the best sellers in the markets like Creta/Seltos/Carens.

As I can see all the other manufacturers except Maruti-Suzuki are trying new technologies, Improving their shortcomings in upcoming launches/Facelifts and it is clearly showing in terms of sales.

CNG is recovering the sales of Diesel but other manufacturers are giving very very tough competition.

They're stuck now. They Can't launch Diesel again. Can't launch an EV easily because it can backfire like the Jimny/Kizashi scenario. Because more fine products from different manufacturers are launched/ing.

[DCEite]

The basic premise (and slightly flawed if I may say) that this thread is based on assumes that a vehicle/car is only a "car", in the sense, only composed of its mechanical components, comfort, features, build quality, engine performance and so on.


What me must also not forget that a car is also:

1. Post purchase ownership experience

This includes parameters like:

- Number of authorized service stations in a given locality
- Quality of workmanship at these service stations
- Ease of procuring spare parts and claiming warranty
- Availability of spares in open market
- Overall customer experience at the service centre (waiting times, quality of
work, customer centric experience, etc.)

2. Pre purchase experience

This includes paramers like:

- Helpfulness and guidance of sales team in deciding and negoaiting with
the customer
- Flexibility of purchase decisions (example, buying insurance from dealer vs
outside)
- Ease of availing test drives and extended test drives as and when required
by the potential customer, including home test drives
- Explanation of vehicle features, functions and clear indication of waiting
periods

3. General reliability of engine components and mechanicals.

This is self explanatory. While most of us are auto-enthusiasts within this community, there are a lot of customers for whom:

- A car with simple mechanics and engine with proven reliability are preferred over similar cars by , for example home grown manufactureres having more powerful
engines but also more prone to random issues, breakdowns and wear and tear in the long term.

- A car with low maintenance and generally reliable gearbox compared to a more fancy and fast one, but more prone to issues (eg. traditional Torque convertor vs
DCA/DCT)

- A car with fewer electronics, and a bit "old school", but one that still gets the job done, without having to worry about random digital MID/ICE screen restarts,
shutdowns in the middle of running and other software issues.





Now, I am not even talking about Fuel efficiency here. But it is a very sensitive topic here. As it is generally considered by most enthusiasts here and elsewhere, fuel efficiency takes a backseat when driver engagement, performance and fun to drive factors are considered. And I fully agree to it, myself had the same school of thought when I was younger.

But then, for other 99.8% of population outside the enthusiast community, fuel efficiency *does* matter. And Maruti cars are undisputed champions when it comes to FE from their (petrol) motors.

But anyway, the point here is that Maruti is needed in India. Infact, the customer has to have a choice if he is prefers peace of mind and fuss free ownership experience, over an unpredictable and possibly disturbed after sales experience. The tradeoff is ofcourse the quality of every day driving experience.

But as long as the tradeoff is acceptable, I don't see any reason why Maruti should continue the way they are. Let them keep producing mediocre, but highly reliable vehicles and excellent (compared to competition) aftersales, presales and buying experience, I am not complaining.

In a way, Intel was and is always needed, as a choice for a potential customer at any given point of time. My AMD gave up one year into the purchase back in 2k's due to heating issues. But it was fast, fun and had the ability to do overclocking.