[TusharK]

According to Rahul Bharti, Executive Director of Corporate Affairs, Maruti Suzuki, strong hybrid vehicles should replace ICE vehicles and not EVs.



“The debate is not between EV and strong hybrid. Both are excellent technologies. Both need to be encouraged. The debate is between strong hybrids and IC engines,” Bharti said. “I cannot imagine a situation, and nobody can justify why IC engines should be preferred over strong hybrid,” he added.

Countering a claim made by a think tank regarding the emissions produced by hybrids, Bharti said that in a strong hybrid vehicle, it is the computer that optimizes both drivetrains (ICE and battery motor combination), and there is no option given to the driver to run in pure ICE mode.

To support his argument, Bharti revealed that the Maruti Grand Vitara and Invicto hybrids produce 26% and 30% lower CO2 emissions while increasing fuel efficiency by 36% and 46%, respectively. “So, definitely strong hybrids are a very powerful way to cut oil imports, generate energy efficiency, and reduce CO2 immediately without the pressure of range anxiety or lack of charging infrastructure,” he added.

Bharti also believes that the market penetration of EVs will not reach 80-100% even in the next 10-15 years. Hence, to reduce CO2 emissions and improve the energy efficiency of the remaining ICE vehicles, hybrids would be a logical strategy.

Source: ET Auto

Link to Team-BHP News

[Santy19]

MS talks about Hybrid replacing ICE, but they dont launch much awaited Swift in its hybrid guise

Such hypocrisy!

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by Santy19

MS talks about Hybrid replacing ICE, but they dont launch much awaited Swift in its hybrid guise

Such hypocrisy!

As of now, a series hybrid is being developed, that is based on the same Z12 engine, and will debut on the Fronx next year, eventually making its way to Swift and Dzire too.
And comments about getting the mild hybrid of global car when this is being developed doesn't sound right to me to be honest!

[GTO]

As usual, it was a click-bait title from ET. Have changed our thread title to make it more factual. The actual quote was:

“We are seeing some wrong comparisons going on in the market. The debate is not between EV and strong hybrids. Both are excellent technologies. Both need to be encouraged. The debate is between strong hybrids and internal combustion engines. I cannot imagine a situation, and nobody can justify why ICE should be preferred over a strong hybrid,” Bharti said.

I totally agree with him. EVs & Hybrids can happily co-exist and for the layman with a lot of running, there is no reason to choose a regular ICE over a Hybrid. The main challenges for hybrids though are:

- Increased availability. You can count on your fingers of ONE hand, the number of hybrids available for 20-lakh rupees.

- Increased availability in the lower segments too, especially Crossovers & MPVs of all sizes.

- Price difference from ICE needs to be brought down and will only happen with increased volumes & localisation.

Hybrids are really the new "diesels" for everyday cars. For everyday folk with high running, hybrids make a whole lot of sense. Only enthusiasts & those with low running will prefer non-hybrid motors (although there are some fun-to-drive hybrids too globally).

[Axe77]

... nobody can justify why ICE should be preferred over a strong hybrid, ...

Again, the statement is a bit too sweeping IMO. I am a big fan of strong hybrids and I agree that each of these tech have their own space - EVs, ICE and strong hybrids.

But taking from the extracted quote, one immediate reason why someone may prefer ICE to strong hybrids is performance. While strong hybrids may provide adequate performance across the power range, there can be no denying that proper turbo petrols / turbo diesels would still trump most strong hybrids on pure driving thrills. No reason to write off an entire tech. What would be encouraging is if more manufacturers provided us strong hybrid options as well, specially when they already have these options within their existing portfolios.

Another reason is the proposed use case. If I had a very low case usage for car and was looking to buy the Honda City for instance, I would prefer the regular ICE over the hybrid. Its cheaper to buy up front, I don't have to think of issues like battery life at 8 years or whatever. I get more boot space for those occasional airport runs and have the peace of mind of having a spare wheel.

[ToThePoint]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Again, the statement is a bit too sweeping IMO. I am a big fan of strong hybrids and I agree that each of these techs have their own space - EVs, ICE and strong hybrids.

But taking from the extracted quote, one immediate reason why someone may prefer ICE to strong hybrids is performance. While strong hybrids range may provide adequate performance across the power range, there can be no denying that proper turbo petrols / turbo diesels would still trump most strong hybrids on pure driving thrills. No reason to write off an entire tech. What would be encouraging is if more manufacturers provided us strong hybrid options as well, specially when they already have these options within their existing portfolios.

Another reason is the proposed use case.

Whole heartedly agree with this assesment.

Also, Not everyone wants complicated tech which needs towing car by RSA should something go wrong, how so ever small it may be.

Bring in price parity like GTO said, before making such sweeping statements.

There is no doubt Hybrids bring a lot of benefits, but it has to come to the masses first; something Tata has been able to do with their EVs and is reaping the fruits.

[07CR]

I am team Hybrid and would prefer them over the ICE or electrics but with following conditions-

• Just because it's a hybrid other factors of the car like NVH, interior quality, basic equipment expected for its sticker price should not be overlooked.
• There should be two variants of the hybrids, one focussed on super fuel efficiency (with performance equal to NA 1.5 MILD Hybrid of maruti engine), other focussed on performance but with respectable FE (something that will rival the 1.5 TGDI's of the world).
• A price premium of about 2-2.5 L over NA non hybrid engine seems fair to me.

Other than this, I would highly prefer the Plug in Hybrids. It's like the benefits of the EV and Hybrid combined! That said, I am not well versed with PHEV's and if there are any prominent cons of this technology, would be happy to be enlightened.

[blueather]

Maruti talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. They had strong hybrid vehicles on sale in Europe and Japan well before the debut of Grand Vitara/Hyryder. I'm pretty sure they used to sell Swift in Japan with an in-house strong hybrid system.

Well, where are the hybrids, then, Mr Bharti? Not everyone wants a 4.3 m crossover. A hybrid Baleno or Wagon R would be a godsend.

[ampere]

Against strong hybrids and EVs I think its a question of who can pull the weight in terms product offering and sales. Today if subsidies go one way against the other, the ecosystem will get pulled accordingly.

Govt and infrastructure support should be available for both types of technologies rather than one against the other. Then yes, we can truly see IC engines being replaced.

And of course for the driving enthusiasts we need that great drive delivery from these products for that small sub-section to switch. The larger populace will anyway swing the moment they see the benefit of cost-of-ownership (maintenance and FE)

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by blueather

Maruti talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. They had strong hybrid vehicles on sale in Europe and Japan well before the debut of Grand Vitara/Hyryder. I'm pretty sure they used to sell Swift in Japan with an in-house strong hybrid system.

Well, where are the hybrids, then, Mr Bharti? Not everyone wants a 4.3 m crossover. A hybrid Baleno or Wagon R would be a godsend.

The hybrids used in Japan don't work in India due to the higher operating temperatures. This requires increased AC usage and kills the effectiveness of hybrids. It is as simple as that. You can't pick and drop solutions into India from abroad to make a hybrid more effective.

I worked personally on such a project, and we faced two choices: Either make the customer sweat at standstill conditions or increase the battery size, which makes a product desirable. Today, Suzuki uses either a 48V-ISG-battery "Mild Hybrid", or a "Strong Hybrid" from Toyota. They had a "Stronger" Hybrid, which was useless even in Japan.

Even the first-generation EVs in Japan used to regularly stop working in hotter climes due to overheating and a high AC load.

[mugen_pinaki27]

I am in the market for a used strong hybrid. Honestly, given Delhi's temperamental nature towards petrol and diesel vehicles, I am inclined to go for either strong hybrids or EVs. The latter, unfortunately, would restrict me to the city since North India doesn't have the stellar EV network that South India has. It's developing and I might be more willing about 5 years down the row. The Honda City hybrid makes a lot of sense given the prices of fuels, particularly when BHPians reported mileages as high as 26-27 kmpl.

[dass]

One issue, a big one that forced me not to go for a GV Hybrid over any other car when I was in the look out last year, was the lack of boot space. For most Indians, there is usually only one car per family and not having a proper boot space will always be an issue with hybrid cars. I am not sure how it is in a Sedan, however in GV, it was severely compromised .