[Zinger_Winger]

They think they can 1-up Ford while sorely lacking in dealerships, features & overall presence? Let's not even talk about the miserable safety that their cars have here. We already have the juggernaut MSIL (or TaMo if one prefers Diesel) acing what they are just starting out in. Why would I pass up on a hugely mammothical and easy to maintain brand if all I wanted was a no frills, easy to maintain vehicle? Considering the Frenchie's do not even have their identity (sorted driving dynamics/engaging drive) present.

Ford failed, in spite of having all this and with 100% more on-ground presence and arguably lower service costs than even MSIL (in many cases).

Just hiring Dhoni isn't going to do anything for them.

Can someone please tell me what the bean counters in Citroen are smoking? Seems like really really potent and real good stuff!

[Sensible_Speed]

Originally Posted by ads11

This quote makes it seem like the demand for feature rich cars in India is a new thing and that everyone is learning the lesson simultaneously. It clearly isn't, and also clearly others like Kia heeded it well in advance when they entered the market.

Citroen make cars with a distinct character of their own from a brand perspective but this "value engineered" product strategy of theirs is clearly an idea whose time has long gone. They'll persist with that strategy at their own peril.

Claiming it could be their second most important global market is a truly empty boast without substance. It could very well become the major market they exit in a second or so, dismal rate at which they've been going.

All the criticism their Indian management gets is entirely well founded

They are basically pulling an Apple with the first statement, pretending like everyone except them hasn't adopted a consumer trend and incorporated it into their products and then act like they're revolutionizing the product space with something that is already mainstream.

The whole "French Flair" schtick might actually be detrimental, because, let's be honest here, nobody wants a vehicle they will use everyday to have a learning curve. Also, the French generally tend to do things differently for the sake of it, with no rationale a lot of the time. Citroen themselves has a larger list of flops than successes put together! But, their modern offerings are sensible enough to warrant a second look. It's just their attitude towards the Indian customer is typically European snobbish, in my opinion.

[samarthnarayan]

Originally Posted by Zinger_Winger

Ford failed,

Slight disagreement here, as in my opinion:

Ford Didn't fail as a car manufacturer, its cars were selling even at the peak of the pandemic, as established on another thread, where GTO shared the data sample, of over 4,000-5,000 Ford Ecosports selling on average per month around 2021, just before they pressed on the exit button.

Basically Ford's leadership just made a series of bad business decisions:

Just illustrating a few simple ones to make my point:

1) Over investment in Sanand Plant

2) Not investing in the upgrade of their cars.

3) Not cutting flab of their poorly selling sedans.

4) Deciding to exit, when instead they needed to restructure, and keep selling the Endeavour and the Ecosport, 2 cars with a lot of loyalists in the market.

Anyways, I think Citroen is no where in the league of where Ford was even when the latter exited.

Even today, I can vouch, that there is a dedicated fan base of the Ecosport in India. IMO, It still remains the best drivers car to grace our shores (yet).

Summary:
So Citroen has a long long road ahead. Without a dealership and Service network, I don't see them growing at all.

[Satkaj]

Any CEO is paid for showing good numbers but very few are able to turn company around such as Citron.

I do not see any concrete roadmap with specific models launch for next 5 years to support this claim.

I do not see any eagerness in their current dealerships to remain profitable with current sales numbers. Not sure how will they convince new dealers to open dealership during their sales pitch or presentation.

[Jeroen]

The second largest market for Citroen? Well, that is easy, because outside of France, Citroen has been doing badly for decades!



I would never ever buy a Citroen here in Europe. You would not be able to find a dealer outside France. Spare parts availability is a joke.

Citroen dealers are the worst. Admittedly not by their own fault, but how they are treated by Citroen. Some very good friends of ours had a Citroen dealership for decades, but eventually sold it and it went broke a few years later. Citroen made their life a misery. Fewer and fewer car models, more requirements on the dealers and less margin. That is not a model that will last and it did not.

A survey done under car dealerships, some years ago, put Citroen at the very bottom. By far the worst dealership to have.

If they can’t pull off a proper dealer network, good services and spare parts in Europe why do they think they can do it in India.

And let’s face it, Citroen used to be special cars with some unusual features. The last one that was really different was probably the BX.

Of course, all of a sudden they are now Stellantis. But with the exception of Opel/Vauxhall none of those other brands have any real market share and market presence. And they all suffer from the same problem. Exceptionally poor dealer support.

Jeep, Dodge, Ram, Alfa, Fiat and so on. You can’t corale more losers automotive speaking than Stellantis did. Some of their brands struggle in their home market. Let alone market abroad.

Don’t buy anything new from them, run a mile! Most did build quite nice car at some point in time. You want a classic Citroen, Jeep, Fiat, Dodge, etc. Which also means you don’t need to rely on their awful dealers.

Jeroen

[neerajku]

Originally Posted by samarthnarayan

In my view, I think their pricing is still okay.

In fact, the build quality and driving dynamics of the Citroen cars is actually better than Kia-Maruti-Hyundai (KMH).

However, they lag seriously on 2 counts currently:

May be you are right, pricing is relative phenomenon. For the price of a C3 if I have tried, tested, feature loaded and a durable car from Maruti, Hyundai or Kia most of us would flip for it. And not worry about the engineering marvel that Citroen could be.
To be fair, in my mind it was the absurd pricing of C5 that was playing and not the relatively reasonable one of C3.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

The second largest market for Citroen? Well, that is easy, because outside of France, Citroen has been doing badly for decades!

Citroen is merely a label for budget Peugeots. I remember a classmate taking delivery of a new ZX. Inside, it was pure Peugeot. All the real fun ended with the Xantia.

Citroeon is the name for your Lada replacement, cheap hire car fleet rental, kids with a budget for some side stripes and a boom box

[DivyanshuDiv]

Either they have an unrealistic but some big PLAN(cars) or they have lost their mind with C3 cousins, and thus have an EXIT plan, phase wise.

[ashutoshb]

This quote needs to be added to this thread. They are happy selling 2500 Citroens, for now.

Interview with Ashwani Muppasani, COO of Stellantis India and Asia Pacific:

You said you're not going to fuss over volumes. What's the sweet spot when it comes to volume position?
If I sell 1,000 Jeeps with a current portfolio, and about 2,500 Citroens, I'm happy. Because I have grand plans for exports. Because India is a very complex market, as 80% is simply brand loyal and if you go and chase those volumes, then you're going to lose money and that means you have to increase the network too, then you have to worry about your dealer viability. That means you have to feed the network or dealers are going to come and complain. I don't want to be in that situation.

It seems like though India is an important market for you, it’s not important for volumes.
You chase volumes, you chase your tail. There are a lot of OEMs that don't make any money in this country, I don't want to do that. I want to be profitable because we're in the business to make a profit. And my structural costs are such that I can make a profit with the numbers that I gave you. I want the volumes to come naturally and organically.

It doesn't mean that I'm not going to introduce new models. I'm going to introduce the models that I want to choose for the country, those that I am going to be able to develop, design and produce locally. Volume has to come but you also need to keep your breakeven points very low.

Source: https://www.autocarpro.in/interview/...al-role-120177

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

This quote needs to be added to this thread. They are happy selling 2500 Citroens, for now.

Interview with Ashwani Muppasani, COO of Stellantis India and Asia Pacific:

I believe that the real decision makers are a couple of levels above. The C-suite folks get changed every few years (even months) or so. I dont think they have much strategic value from the Indian consumer perspective.

[saikishor]

Another day, another Citroen joke. I laughed my bum out when I read this. I don't know with what confidence a CEO can say this with such sales numbers behind his company. There is not one appealing or relevant product in their lineup. The C5 impresses but at a very high price. Instead of launching Datsun strategy models in India it is better for them to sell imports like the C5 aircross and maintain a niche status.