[TSG]

According to a new report, the ban on the usage of 10-year old diesel vehicles and 15 year old petrol vehicles has been extended till the city of Karnal in Haryana, with orders to impound the said vehicle.

This comes as a big shock to commuters from Chandigarh, and the neighbouring regions of Punjab and Haryana.

Is such a ban not arbitrary towards the citizens? A large chunk of money is often spent on procuring such expensive vehicles, with supposedly better refinement and quality levels than more affordable counterparts. For the majority, procuring such vehicles is a lifelong dream. An overnight ban on the usage of such vehicles becomes a major issue for regular commuters to these areas, and also causes immense financial stress.

While I am aware that an appeal has been filed against this, and one can supposedly not question the decisions of the NGT, can something not be done against such arbitrary decisions? Is this merely a lobbying exercise by the manufacturers, or is the introduction of fitness tests with set parameters to determine the viability of the plying of an individual's vehicle on public roads really asking for too much?

My family owns a very well maintained 2013 Fortuner which falls in this category. While we had accepted the fate of not being able to use the vehicle in Delhi, the vehicle often travelled to Sonipat, but with this apparent order, can no longer do that either.

Would love to get BHPian's thoughts on this.

(Mods please merge this thread if it already exists; it's my first proper post here and I sincerely apologise if it goes against the rules. If any edits are to be made, I am more than willing to do that.)

Link to the news - https://www.ptcnews.tv/nation/haryan...karnal-4473673

[Charioteer]

According to a new report, the ban on the usage of 10-year old diesel vehicles and 15 year old petrol vehicles has been extended till the city of Karnal in Haryana, with orders to impound the said vehicle

It is sad and it is exasperating.

The legal set up in our country is such that these arbitrary decisions are almost immune from courts.
Though I have no idea why.

Why can't an appeal be upheld in the court on the grounds that there was a certain unwritten agreement between a citizen and the Government at the time of purchase of the vehicle that the large investment will cater to a definite period.

And there are no great public demands to ban such cars. There have been no rallies or citizen protests against cars plying on the roads that are more than 10/ 15 years old!!

Who in NGT decides the age of 10 yrs and 15 years across the board, not bothering about the condition or usage of the vehicle?

The Government doesn't implement many rules which are good in the broader sense but fear a public backlash.
Then how is the Government so comfortably bringing in a rule to ban cars?

Is it because the number of people affected by this is extremely small? Too small to be counted as a voter base?

However, if so, how will this small number help in reducing the pollution levels?

[Turbanator]

Per the News link posted by OP it mentions beyond Karnal, i.e Panipat. I don’t read such restrictions being done in Karnal yet.

Panipat is in NCR so it’s an old rule but perhaps was never followed previously. Similar to what usually happens in Faridabad/ Gurgaon. Though the policy is applicable in these towns just like Delhi but seldomly enforced.

However, if Panipat police decide to stop such vehicles from plying on NH, this will affect commuters who otherwise might have taken the bypass of Delhi - EPE or WPE after Sonipat. So perhaps this article is trying to warn such people.

The alternative will be to use the new expressway Ambala- Jhajjar- Narnaul. But this can get expensive and longer for many people living around Karnal/ Panipat belt. Also, I will be curious what do they do about those millions of trucks that use the main highway?

[Shreyans_Jain]

Every not so neighbouring city/district wants to be a part of NCR, you gotta accept the limitations that come with it too. The NGT restrictions are applicable to all of Delhi NCR. It’s a different story that enforcement has generally been limited to the immediate adjoining areas - Noida, Gurgaon, Ghaziabad, Faridabad and Sonipat. Even there, checking is rare. General experience is that smog is worse 100km out of Delhi than what it is inside the city. Simply because there is minimum strictness. Given how bad pollution is in winter months, stricter implementation of existing policy is welcome.

Technically, BS4 diesels should be off limits even on the new Trans Haryana Expeessway as that also passes through large swathes of NCR. Ultimately, everything comes down on the will of the state government to implement the ruling.

[AdityaDeane]

Received from a fellow BHP-ian on WhatsApp

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

General experience is that smog is worse 100km out of Delhi than what it is inside the city. Simply because there is minimum strictness. Given how bad pollution is in winter months, stricter implementation of existing policy is welcome.

It is only welcome if this particular cause has been definitely established; It would be far preferable and ultimately more effective to work off of real science/facts/figures vs. "general experience". We are talking about major hardships for many millions of people.

If this action is definitely going to save thousands from lung cancer (not a pleasant way to die, I saw it happen to my mom), well then it should probably be done - ALTHOUGH if gov had utilized science/facts/figures 10-15 years ago or more, everyone would have been breathing cleaner air for a long time now, and bans wouldn't be necessary - because planning/ preemptive actions would have been undertaken when they really should have been, vs. suddenly and drastically when things have become unbearable / incredibly unhealthy. Always costs more and creates multiples more loss of finances / health when such important things are delayed. The tech was out there in the world for BS4/5/6 long before it was mandated here.

A lot of much-less-polluted countries/states had gradual, orderly, well-communicated phaseouts of older pre-ECU cars starting years/decades ago, even in those places where population is static or shrinking. Here we could still buy old-school BS3 vehicles till pretty recently, BS4 was the best we could get for a long time.

*However*: If in reality any measurably worse pollution 100kms out from Raj Ghat is actually due largely to agricultural / trash burning, industry, etc, then this action of banning BS3/4 cars is not justified, and may have very minimal positive effects. While killing the household economics of a great many people.

Is anyone going to bother with due diligence? And moreover actually evaluate actions taken, etc?

This is all pretty fundamental.

Easy for the wealthy (and auto industry) to say everyone should just buy new cars. Not feasible for probably a majority.

Good governance / just, equitable and appropriate laws would be more welcome than anything else.

-Eric

[tbppjpr]

The car community is not united to held any strong protest like what farmers and other communities do to overturn the draconian enforcements of the govt, thus we suffer.

This 10-15 year rule is biggest scam in the history of our nation. Not only in terms of the money involved, but also for causing harm to the environment by digging unnecessary amount of resources from the mother earth for manufacturing the new cars needed to replace the old but fit cars which are declared illegal.

[fastestindian]

I had to part with my first car, the Mahindra Quanto late last year due to this absolute crapshoot 10 year diesel rule in Delhi.

At that time, I was being advised to sell the car to other areas in Haryana and Punjab (I live in Gurgaon). One cop who stopped me to challan (3 days after my car completed the 10 years registration date), even had the audacity to ask me to sell to him for next to nothing.

Thankfully I decided to drive it all the way to my hometown in Jabalpur (in M.P.) and reregister it to an MP number. My dad is enjoying the welcome change driving the diesel engine (his other car being the Honda Brio) and on enquiring for sale, people are willing to pay 3 times what I was getting for the car when trying to sell it in interiors of Haryana/Punjab.

If you find yourself in a similar situation, my advise would be to find ways of selling your car somewhere in Central India.

[fastestindian]

Originally Posted by Charioteer

Is it because the number of people affected by this is extremely small? Too small to be counted as a voter base?

I don't think it's the absolute numbers that are small. Most politicians are cunning and don't do self goals. They understand that the car owners subsection of society are already subdivided into the various cross sections of different vote banks. The voting preferences of these car owners, would be dictated by so many other considerations (caste, religion, developmental issues like infra, housing prices, stilt + 3 floor regulation thing going in on Gurgaon for example, education, medical infra for hinterlands in Haryana/Punjab, etc) that for them to put all these other things aside and take on the issue of this draconian law is an extremely unlikely scenario.

[exhaustpipe]

I have often asked myself the following questions:
1. If my car passes a pollution check, then why is it unfit to be on NCR roads based on its age?

2. If the highly qualified folks at NGT are going to stick with this illogical rule of 10 & 15 years, then why do I need to get a pollution check for my vehicle if my petrol car is say 3-years old?

3. Point 1 and 2 seem contradictory.

4. Why isn't NGT doing anything about the zillion other contributors of pollution in our cities:
a. Dust, sooth, leftover construction material and other pollutants lie on our roadsides for years without anyone cleaning them up. Traffic keeps blowing them up into the air and subsequently our lungs, but I guess it is easier for NGT to implement an illogical policy then to get civic authorities to do their job. Turns out, there is money to be made in confiscating old vehicles, which is probably why our inefficient authorities are on their toes now.
b. Why aren't they curbing uncontrolled urbanization of cities? Authorities in Delhi NCR (and other major cities in India) keep approving large infrastructure projects, knowing very well that our infrastructure is already overwhelmed.
c. Certain roads are always congested, at times due to a large number of vehicles but also due to poor planning of roads (you'll have 4 lanes suddenly turning into 2 lanes then 3 lanes and so on). NGT, with its overarching approach to handling pollution, should interface with relevant authorities and fix this issue.
d. I can say with confidence that there is little to no presence of traffic police on Delhi roads. You’ll see vehicles driving on the wrong side of the road and knocking traffic to standstill. Traffic jams result in higher fuel consumption, more vehicular pollution and also higher cost of commute.
e. Has anyone noticed the condition of government owned vehicles?

IMO limiting their scope to air pollution and not global warming is myopia. Trashing a well-maintained non-polluting vehicle only to be replaced by a brand-new car in unnecessary and causes far more damage to our environment. In the long run our impact isn't going to stay limited to a town, city or a country, it will encapsulate the entire world.

I wish I was a lawyer and knew how to put authorities under a spotlight to question their assumptions used as basis of such laws in our country.

Also, capitalism is the evil of all ��

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by exhaustpipe

I have often asked myself the following questions:
1. If my car passes a pollution check, then why is it unfit to be on NCR roads based on its age?
2. If the highly qualified folks at NGT are going to stick with this illogical rule of 10 & 15 years, then why do I need to get a pollution check for my vehicle if my petrol car is say 3-years old?

These 2 points have pretty much summed up this issue since the time it came into existence.

We are simply being robbed in broad daylight, by a trio of the NGT, the Judiciary and the Government, with the police force making merry as the enforcer. I know some will object to pointing fingers at the judiciary, but the above 2 points - are clear enough to show both the items are simply made to make money either for the government or for the carmaker lobby. Nobody actually cares about the environment or the consumer.

And that its going on for so many years without any chance for common sense to prevail, is quite embarassing.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

The car community is not united to held any strong protest like what farmers and other communities do to overturn the draconian enforcements of the govt, thus we suffer.

Farming is a profession, just as medicine is or practicing law is. So, farmers or doctors or lawyers are bound by a common profession and they protest as a community when a draconian law is pushed their way.

Car-ownership is not a profession/means of livelihood. A car owner maybe a doctor, another a lawyer, an engineer, a CA.... and so it goes on. So, I don't see any way out for us. Sure, a signature campaign can be initiated but honestly, do you think it will even reach the desk of powers-that-be?

[saubi2299]

10 year rule is being implemented in entire NCR. Vehicles are supposed to be deregistered once your diesel car crosses 10 years. Enforcement drives ti stop them from actually plying on road will happen mostly in Delhi and few other neighbouring districts, due to the simple fact that other NCR districts do not have big enough machinery to do it. My Diesel Verna was registered in Rewari and I got an automated message exactly 1 month before it was reaching 10 years. I got an NOC and transferred it in name of my relative in Hisar, and it is being used there since then. As and when AQI will rise, such enforcement drives will be done.

But be very clear that this rule is here to stay and will only be extended to more and more states. This ban came from NGT and has been supported by SC also. Any state which wants to be SEEN as acting against pollution, will implement this, as it will not be overruled by judiciary. Any other step to disincentivise private diesel vehicles like congestion tax or increase in tax, will be seen negatively by public and needs lot of planning to not backfire and be rebuked by Courts. But this 10 years restriction has been already accepted by public.

[MadMaxDiesel]

Originally Posted by saubi2299

But be very clear that this rule is here to stay and will only be extended to more and more states.

If this will be extended to other states then there will be resistance to this rule in some way or the other as the number of people affected will increase many folds . The used car market will go for a toss and people will be left with no option but to buy new cars. This might give rise to a situation wherein it will be difficult to even own a car for many people. Lets see how this unfolds.

[_sh4nu_]

Originally Posted by fastestindian

Thankfully I decided to drive it all the way to my hometown in Jabalpur (in M.P.) and reregister it to an MP number.

How much did it cost you to reregister you car in mp?
I'm from M.P. too and i want to buy and transfer a used passat (dec 2013) trendline manual from Chandigarh to Damoh (M.P.)

Can you please help me with information on the costs and the whole process?

Thanks