[SixPistons]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

GV vs Hyryder difference only "soft" parts i.e. plastic and lamps. Seltos Vs Creta have different sheet metal. The different dies that shape metal would have cost at least Rs. 200 Cr if not more. The top-hat change takes a lot, lot more effort that what GV vs Hyryder has done.

Fair point, there is a cost for dies that shape the sheet metal. But they are still essentially twins. For two vehicles to be different from an Engineering POV, they must differ in a whole lot more than the sheet metal.

[ZenMaster]

Originally Posted by SixPistons

OT;

I find that overall looks is the only core differentiator in terms of appeal. They both really only differ in cosmetics and not substance. Hard to justify this as different from GV vs Hyryder.

Then, how exactly are they different products?

I'm not sure of your exposure to the Automobile manufacturing sector and how vehicles are designed and certified.

What you stated is a common misconception that happens when magazine & reviewers and even our forum members water down things for normal people. People do not appreciate how much time, money and effort goes into developing a vehicles even if its "derived from another model"

As someone who does this for a living, from the POV of a company, the R&D & Development effort that goes into creating even the smallest part in an automobile is huge.

When you say that "overall looks" are different, for us it means that every single body panel used on that vehicle is different. That means 2-3 years of design, development, testing and certification.

The interiors is completely different b/w Creta & Seltos. Sure, they may be sharing the same screens or software or switchgear or some electrical components etc. But don't miss the forest for the trees. These are cost saving methods used by firms which have the same parent companies. Each of remaining 90% of interior parts undergoes 2-3 years of design, development and testing.

The fact that their ride, handling and NVH are distinct means that for all intends and purposes, they have different suspension systems even if they are using a few common parts or similar design.

Unless you are using the exact same part having the exact same part number, every single part goes through a rigorous development cycle even if its ~90% same.

And when the exterior and the interior and the suspension setup is different, it affects every single relevant parameter of a vehicle from its crash performance, body stiffness, FE etc.

Sure, the Creta and Seltos do share more components than you average unrelated model, but this a very small %compared to the overall vehicle, but legally and engineering wise these are two different vehicles (based on a common platform) but designed & engineered separately by two different companies and homologated and produced separately.

The GV/Hyryder is the textbook definition of a "Badge Engineered" vehicle. The differences are literally limited to the Bumpers, Lamps and emblems and maybe some colour shared of the trim. They are both manufactured by Toyota on a single line.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

The Grand Vitara + Hyryder Combo is a sleeper hit for Maruti. Together they are doing 16000+ in volume.

For those who are going to point out the Creta + Seltos Combo, Engineering wise they are completely different products except the platform.

The only difference between Hyryder and GV are their Bumper, Lamps and emblems.

Yes but Hyundai/Kia benefits from shipped volumes as well, wherein it's important for them to differentiate the products in international markets, but enjoy the cost benefit of volumes. The Creta and Seltos are their strongest export products. Hyundai/Kia are international giants and have strong presence in most markets, they'll recuperate R&D, tooling costs far faster through exports of components and fully build units.

[linuxworld]

Thanks for the detailed data presentation.

Nexon and Punch numbers are below.

Nexon
January 2024 - 17182
February 2024 - 14395

Punch
January 2024 - 17978
February 2024 - 18438

Is it possible to get EV-specific numbers from these? When Punch EV was launched in January 2024, one thought said Punch EV would eat Nexon EV’s sales. To some extent, the February number shows Punch has outperformed Nexon. I am curious to know if the increase in Punch sales is the effect of the Punch EV launch.

[Asoon]

- Over reliance on Creta is risky for Hyundai (Venue, Aura, Verna do not have strong pull compared to competition)

- Both TATA & Mahindra have not entered 4.2-4.4 segment, once Blackbird and XUV500/ 300 facelift active we can expect Hyundai to loose its 2nd spot with TATA & M&M at 2nd and 3rd

- Hycorss numbers are amazing, definitely the most revenue generating car in the Indian auto space (ATS of over 20K x 9000 units is huge)

- Kia again is over indexed on Sonet / Seltos

- Honda needs more product offerings to stay relevant

- Top 6 manufacturers are positioned so strongly that it is practically impossible for the long tail list to create an impact

[aniketi]

Top 4 only doing 81% of total is certainly not a good thing for us as a customer. It underlines the inability of the other manufacturer's capabilities. Others are just not able to crack the India code till now. Once upon a time Honda was the most loved, wanted car by Indians but not anymore now. That is not because of any other thing but just the inability of Honda to provide good cars. Same with Toyota. People like Innova and Fortuner as they don't have much choice in that particular segments. Skoda and VW twins just keep doing some numbers, that's it. They will never become normal people's car. Lots of expectations were there from Renault and Nissan, but they simply lost it now. Kia also mainly dependent on Seltos, nothing else.

Hope things will improve in coming years. We as a customer will get more choice. Currently for common man, only Maruti, Hyundai and Tata are making good cars within their budget. Hope they will keep doing same and provide us more options.

[jaspal singh]

Originally Posted by Kashi053

Even though Hyundai is relatively doing well, thats only because of Creta. One thing to notice is how all other product of Hyundai is in the Top 10 MoM losers list. Five out of ten cars are from Hyundai in that list.

Hyundai has taken a big hit in hatchback and premium hatchback segment. Baleno and glanza doing around 22000 units vs just 5100 for i20.
It's a shame for Hyundai considering they created premium hatchback segment with Getz and then launched a global product 1st gen, i20 in 2008 in India. Second generation Elite i20 launched in 2014 was a big improvement over previous generation at competitive prices,but the new i20 launched in 2020 has not given expected results. Pricing, overall styling has not gone well in market

Till 2019 gap between elite i20 and Baleno was not much but everything changed after new i20 was launched in 2020. I own both i20 2012 model and elite i20 2019 model. Both are great cars.

Similar story with grand i10, not delivering great numbers as per segment sales.

I think Hyundai also made a blunder by not giving diesel in new Verna .

This is where Maruti never gets wrong. Next generation/ facelifts of their bestsellers are in most cases improvements over earlier models . Swift , Wagonr, Ertiga, Swift dzire, Brezaa and so on.

[pandabear]

What happened to Isuzu. They are so lazy. The mux would just sell in hot cakes if the updated version from Thailand makes it here. Priced right it would give fortuner a run for its money.
People have just forgotten the vcross and mux. Sad!

[niranjanprabhu]

Top Highlights for February 2024 car sales in India!

1. Tallest February ever. The growth tale continues unabated, with numbers up 11.35% over last February

2. At the model level, a good 15 models have clocked numbers north of 10k. The Tata Punch hits an all-time record of 18,438 so as the Creta with sales of 15,276 and the Scorpio-N with sales of 15,051

3. 58% of all cars are now being sold in the 10+ lakh category. Given that these are not luxury brands we are talking about, but mass-market cars, it only further strengthens the argument that Indians are looking at buying a product that is not cheap but is great value for money. I never tire of remembering the fact that Mahindra sold the XUV500 in 2011, priced north of 15 lakhs using a lottery because of the overwhelming demand and the Tata Nano, priced at around 2 lakhs was struggling to meet its planned numbers. As a people, we look for value and stretch an arm and a leg to buy such products. Today, the ruinous failure of cars like the Citroen C3/C3 Aircross points sharply to this understanding. DON'T cut down on features and try to sell cheap stuff. We are simply not appreciating this!

4. If we look at the top 10 cars sold, 6 are Marutis, 2 are Tatas, one is a Mahindra and one is a Hyundai. Tatas are back as No 2 overtaking Hyundai. The Mahindra that has made it to the top 10 is (hold your breath!) the Scorpio-N. This is a car with a median on-road price of over 20 lakhs. The same is the case with the Creta.

5. The way things stand today is 1 in 2 cars sold is an SUV/Crossover. 1 in 4 cars sold is a hatch. 1 in 7 sold is a MUV and less than 1 in 10 cars sold is a sedan. This reveals a fantastic story!

[buzzy_boy]

With Jeep on life-support, is it safe to say that Mr. Aditya Jairaj's "customer at the center" strategy is not taking off?

So much corporate speak, and yet, two great products (Compass and Meridian) are not taking off mainly due to their positioning.

[raghurider009]

Great to see the local boys Tata & Mahindra bring rule the SUV segment. XUV + Scorpio at ~20K is just massive since these are ~25 Lac SUVs. A little concerning to see Harrier + Safari numbers plateauing at ~5K a month. Clearly shows how Scorpio and XUV being better engineered products are getting acceptance on a whole new level.

On the sad part, Citroen seems to be in a mess of their own making, half-baked launches and cars devoid of basic features have led them to this. Feel sorry for their dealers.

[Bhokal]

Originally Posted by raghurider009

Great to see the local boys Tata & Mahindra bring rule the SUV segment. XUV + Scorpio at ~20K is just massive since these are ~25 Lac SUVs. A little concerning to see Harrier + Safari numbers plateauing at ~5K a month. Clearly shows how Scorpio and XUV being better engineered products are getting acceptance on a whole new level.

Harrier/Safari sales are seriously hamstrung by the lack of a petrol variant. I am surprised that Tata has still not been able to ready it yet. They needed it yesterday.

[UD17]

Originally Posted by Bhokal

Harrier/Safari sales are seriously hamstrung by the lack of a petrol variant.

XUV7oo and Scorpio (N) is approx. >90% Diesel, even with the 200BHP TGDI engine. So i don't think any petrol engine can surge the sales of BIG SUVs in India (unless diesel is completely banned).

Moreover with Indian segments, who focus on Value (running cost) would buy any gas guzzler like petrol engines.

[vinaygeorgeroy]

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

The Grand Vitara + Hyryder Combo is a sleeper hit for Maruti. Together they are doing 16000+ in volume.

For those who are going to point out the Creta + Seltos Combo, Engineering wise they are completely different products except the platform.

The only difference between Hyryder and GV are their Bumper, Lamps and emblems.

May I know why do you say this is a hit for Maruti ? Isn't this a hit for Toyota more, considering these are re-badged Toyotas, I would assume the lion share of the profit would go to Toyota. [Atleast in the hybrid versions which are through and through Toyotas]

[rahul412]

Originally Posted by vinaygeorgeroy

May I know why do you say this is a hit for Maruti ? Isn't this a hit for Toyota more, considering these are re-badged Toyotas, I would assume the lion share of the profit would go to Toyota. [Atleast in the hybrid versions which are through and through Toyotas]

Car is essentially Maruti with hybrid technology+engine coming from Toyota. Non hybrid car is 100% Maruti with no Toyota component so lion share must be Maruti's.