[ashwin49]

This is really sad, what prevents Toyota to make online booking the only way, the dealers are still in the loop even when the car is booked online in the current process so nobody looses. There could be ways to prevent middlemen don't book to make a quick profit, by identifying these cartels and ensuring vetting is done more thoroughly. There are some cases where people have booked in 2022 and still have not received their vehicles.

[Prash1407]

Originally Posted by ashwin49

This is really sad, what prevents Toyota to make online booking the only way, the dealers are still in the loop even when the car is booked online in the current process so nobody looses. There could be ways to prevent middlemen don't book to make a quick profit, by identifying these cartels and ensuring vetting is done more thoroughly. There are some cases where people have booked in 2022 and still have not received their vehicles.

You actually can. The official portal of Toyota allows online booking, but this is only customers from Bengaluru. I was contemplating a booking, looked at the details and left it as is. Got a come some time later from Toyota.

The lady mentioned that any booking from the website goes directly to Toyota. There will continuous communications with customer at multiple stages directly from Toyota. She was mentioning that this is going to a seamless process without Dealers. We just select a nearby dealer for final process (RTO etc)

[Axe77]

The opening post has brought out a pertinent point and I hope it doesn’t get lost in some of the tangential aspects being discussed. Out of curiosity, I did a search on CarWale for less than one year Hycross. A couple of listings that came up in today’s search are in the screenshot. I had called one of the listings which popped up in my search a couple of days ago.

Here is the sum up of the proposal as the person outlined it:

# The listing was by a non dealer intermediary. The actual sale will be by an authorized Toyota dealer.
# The car is obviously show room brand new. Not a used car / demo car etc. Genuine new car where you are the first owner like any other new car purchase from the actual authorised dealer.
# Once you confirm terms and put a booking amount, they will reveal the name of the dealer. It was confirmed that it is a Mumbai based dealer (since my search was Mumbai centric). I have no doubt one can similarly purchase this in other city specific dealers as well if one can do so in Mumbai.
# The car is a stock ZX/ZX(O) without a lot of bundled accessories. The key is that one has to pay 3L in cash over and above the official on road price to the dealer for the sale (not sure how dealer and DSA will share this). This is NOT a premium for forced add on accessories. It is a pure and simple black market premium.

Now, in what world is this correct. This is plain and simple good old days of unethical top up amount.

# Toyota cannot possibly be unaware of this situation. Why in the world is it turning a blind eye to this.
# Dealers are generating cash earnings with no tax implications whatsoever. Why should this be tolerated / or allowed.
# Legitimate customers are being taken for a ride with either non existent supply issues, not being allowed to book under the pretext that “bookings for ZX (O) are not open” while the reality is that ZX(O)s are being sold via these black market channels.

This is no longer a supply issue and it’s impossible that Toyota is unaware of this. That means they are a silent facilitator by allowing it to subsist instead of cracking down on dealers.

Dealers will be dealers like many other businesses run in India and I have little to no hope from them on business ethics. But personally I have zero respect for Toyota India’s attitude on this issue. Are we accepting Toyota has no control on dealers continuing the narrative that customers still can’t officially book a ZX/ZX(O)s at all? This is unacceptable and should warrant an internal crackdown between brand and dealers.

PS: While I have of course not actively pursued this conversation I seriously doubt this is a scam. It seems like this is a well oiled DSA / dealership styled sale.

[Cavityavenger]

Originally Posted by Axe77

PS: While I have of course not actively pursued this conversation I seriously doubt this is a scam. It seems like this is a well oiled DSA / dealership styled sale.

Attachment 2580258

You're absolutely spot on with your inference of this issue. I'm still waiting on my ZXO delivery inspite of booking it on the first day Nov 26, 2022. I know for a fact that the dealers are charging minimum 5L or more premium in Chandigarh/Punjab region. I have recorded conversations with the dealership folks where they guarantee delivery within a couple of weeks. There are multiple social media ads/OLX and other local 2nd hand dealers involved where they take a cut for these direct sales from the dealer.

I had emailed Toyota a year back about the lack of transparency in the process since the dealer kept giving me random estimates for delivery and my number on the waitlist. Instead of pursuing the matter, TKM forwarded my email back to the dealer who again gave me the same BS.

In June, 2023 I got a text message with a link to some QRSTRIX website (not sure if this is operated by the dealer or directly from toyota), which showed my booking number/date and my position on the waitlist. In June 2023 I was waitlist no. 24 and as of March 2024, my position is 5. So am I to believe that the dealer has sold only 19 ZXO vehicles in 10 months?

I wonder if there is a judicial recourse to this where the court can ask these dealers to produce inventory records of vehicles sold/cars registered and match that with the waitlist numbers they are sending to customers.

[Joyb]

Originally Posted by Axe77

# Toyota cannot possibly be unaware of this situation. Why in the world is it turning a blind eye to this.
# Dealers are generating cash earnings with no tax implications whatsoever. Why should this be tolerated / or allowed.
# Legitimate customers are being taken for a ride with either non existent supply issues, not being allowed to book under the pretext that “bookings for ZX (O) are not open” while the reality is that ZX(O)s are being sold via these black market channels.

This is no longer a supply issue and it’s impossible that Toyota is unaware of this. That means they are a silent facilitator by allowing it to subsist instead of cracking down on dealers.

Attachment 2580258

Trust me Toyota is totally hands in glove with all these corrupt practices. We had booked a ZX at the time of launch in November 2022, till date there is no sign of the car. Repeated mails to dealer and Toyota generate no response or standard deceiving replies.



Now here is the interesting bit, one of my friends wanted to buy ZX 20 days back, got in touch with a DSA, paid a premium of around 2 lacs and voila, 15 days he got his HyCross ZX. Received direct calls from Toyota for various formalities, wherein in between the discussions the lady admitted that while bookings for ZX/ZX(O) are closed, they take booking of VX and show it as a upgarde

What a mockery. I have told family to cancel the booking as have lost trust in the company.

[Vibhav-Van]

Typical black marketing scenario which reminds us of our license raj era.

The unfortunate part? That a brand like Toyota, with a huge fan following in our country is resorting to this. Never expected this from the likes of them, because everyone raves about their customer centric approach. Not sure if this holds true in this case.

Another perspective - If customers are indeed willing to pay that kind of a premium, should they officially jack up the prices by 3-4 lakh and ensure black-and-white profit from it? I know we will criticise them for being greedy, which they already are. But at least that's legal.

Guess it all boils down to what we as buyers prioritize. Go out of our way to encourage such practices for a car we love (Tbhp car of the year), because the purchase happens only once, but you live with it for years - and that experience matters most. But even in that scenario, are you sure this brand will not resort to such malpractice in the after-sales experience?

Or value ethics and goodness, and pick an alternative (if there is one).

I do not have first hand experience with Toyota except when we went to TD a Hyryder last year; and that was nothing great. With respect to ownership, I've experienced Fiat, Ford and Skoda so far. Fiat was the absolute worst - looking to rip you off at every moment. Ford was such a darling - that's true goodness from the heart. I value that, personally.

[IamNikhil]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Now, in what world is this correct. This is plain and simple good old days of unethical top up amount.

This is no longer a supply issue and it’s impossible that Toyota is unaware of this. That means they are a silent facilitator by allowing it to subsist instead of cracking down on dealers.

It seems like this is a well oiled DSA / dealership styled sale.

You are absolutely spot-on! It is highly unlikely that the Toyota India management is blissfully unaware of these shady practices; rather, in all probability, the senior honchos are willfully turning a blind eye to these under-handed dealings, whereby the dealers are happy. Also, there is a possibility that the cut from profits is shared across all levels. Who doesn't like a little side income, that too tax-free? The appalling fact here is that they are doing so in broad daylight. Heart goes out to customers who are eagerly and patiently waiting for their deliveries, ready to spend their hard-earned money; while some with access to unaccounted resources and greasing-of-palms are taking them for a ride, literally and figuratively!

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by Joyb

What a mockery. I have told family to cancel the booking as have lost trust in the company.

Had to cancel my Hycross VX booking due to lack of any proper tracking from Toyota's side, had to wait for 4 months with zero clarity.

Looks like Suzuki too is getting the same treatment as us, there are people waiting for more than 6 months for the Alpha+ varient yet Toyota keeps sending them Zeta+.

Gladly walked away from all this.

[mathuranuj]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

This is an open secret. Anyone who is part of the dealer circle, the used car market, or has booked a HyCross knows this. Cars are available for immediate delivery upon paying premium directly upfront to the dealer, or through ‘ bundled accessories’. Or, unregistered pieces are conveniently available at select used car dealers at a premium.How these brand new unregistered vehicles with <100km on odo got to these people is anyone’s guess.

Fact is that dealers are scamming people left right and center with this bogey of waiting period and are minting money like anything. Toyota is either, blind, or helpless , or is a happy participant in enabling this nonsense. Take your pick.

I think a definite partner in this scam. They are anyways scamming unsuspecting Indian population by selling rebadged Marutis under their banner. And people walk away thinking that they got something different. Don't have too much respect for the brand with such tactics.

[Lego28]

This has been going on openly since last 1+ year.
I have been in touch with 3rd party dealers from cities like Delhi, Kolkata and even Chennai. The premium varies from 1.75-2.25L depending on the variant and the dealer.
Meanwhile, I have booked VX(O) in September 2023, but no update from my Toyota Dealer till date. Whenever i call them for an update, i am told to call after 6 months (LOL) at least. even the Toyota booking portal doesn't show any date for allotment/delivery.

On a serious note, I know so much about this black market premium,because I have been chasing 3rd party dealers.
Ethical or not, I might buy one with up to 1L premium, but no one is budging below 1.75L.

Adding a few Whatsapp status screenshot from one of the 3rd party dealer to show how openly this is happening. Heck, they are even holding on to 2023 stock in lieu of premium. The 2L+ premium is in addition of mentioned prices in the pics.


I find it hard to believe that Toyota is not hand in hand with the dealers in this one, when Dealers are allowed to hold 2023 stocks meanwhile customers like us are waiting since 7+ months.

[Fuldagap]

Another portal also reported about the Hycross black market.



Link

[Joyb]

Originally Posted by Lego28

I find it hard to believe that Toyota is not hand in hand with the dealers in this one, when Dealers are allowed to hold 2023 stocks meanwhile customers like us are waiting since 7+ months.

Obviously Toyota employees are involved at the highest levels. If they wanted to be fair to their customers, they could have easily ensured that deliveries happened according to the booking dates/priority nums, its no rocket science.

Wont be surprised a bit if the premium being charged is distributed 50-50 between the dealerships and Toyota employees, after all they also need some incentive to look the other way as genuine clients are harassed and Brand Toyota loses its sheen.

When family members ask me, Why are Toyota employees not taking our mails / complaints seriously, I laugh and tell them that they are like UP/Bihar cops shown in movies: They will choose to look the other way till the time they get their cut.

[nikvint]

This is not uncommon. All the cars with waiting list are available with Premium. Earlier it was XUV 700, sold with Cash premium. Now HYCROSS, HYRYDER, INNOVA & CRETA are sold with Cash Premium. In my city (Ahmedabad), there are people who can arrange car from anywhere in India and get it delivered in Ahmedabad.

There are people in the market who wants car immediately and can't wait for 6 to 12 months. So they are ready to shelve extra amount. I know a person who recently buys HYRYDER with 1.00 L premium. He drives around 75 kms a day, so the money he paid for the premium will be recovered in a year, as HYRYDER gives FE of 25.

There are always some extra allotment over and above the bookings to the dealer, as dealership needs few quantity of cars to serve their HNI, HIGH PROFILE, Politically influenced clients and all the car manufacturer has to accommodate the dealer, as they are into business. So extra car allotted to dealer are sold to mediators who generate extra revenue.

[Motormania]

A perspective on how things work :-

1) when bookings for a new model, particularly with high anticipation, opens, majority dealers across the country input bogus bookings in their system, viz., DMS, GDMS etc. This makes the order book swell, while original bookings are much lesser. This is sadly a very old and prevalent practice in the industry that no one talks about. It is exactly these figures that are quoted by OEM senior honchos in their press releases “1 lakh bookings in 10 minutes etc”

2) Such a practice is typically done to get higher allocation of new models from the OEM, thereby increasing dealer retail sales and profitability. Basically cashing in on the craze and demand.

3) Many big dealers (in terms of volume or influence) keep pressure on OEMs to allot/dispatch higher numbers to aid in sales

4) Many times OEM dispatches are not in line with actual customer bookings, thereby leading to free stock at the dealership. Due to this, dealer sales reps then approach either existing bookings to take one of these vehicles, or offer these vehicles to brokers/POC sellers at a commission


In case of the Hycross also, it’s the same phenomenon.

[vamsi.vadrevu]

I love Toyota's commitment to quality and reliability. But their Indian counterparts are some of the worst in terms of ethics. There's a saying "pride goes before fall". Toyota prides itself in their monopoly over that segment. They're enjoying the patronage because of monopoly. But it won't be long before competition catches up (Ford and Mitsubishi) and they'll lose their customers.

Toyota never released any good products for Indian market (except Yaris). It never bothered to engineer vehicles specifically for us. It has always treated Indian market with a disdain. Their lazy badge engineering attitude is working in the short term. But in the long run, competition is going to catch up and they'll lose those customers.