[abaliga]

Car prices are on the way up like there is no tomorrow, Luxury car prices more so than regular ones! Folks who aspire to buy luxury cars are not able to buy, as by the time they get comfortable to afford one, prices would have doubled, overall inflation is relatively under control, but car prices are going up too much for anyone's comfort!

Another reason I can think of is the loss of resale value unlike regular cars, these are just money pits and almost worthless if one is selling after 8-9 years of use, most buyers who are not enthusiasts themselves and the ones who aren't worried about the badge will prefer cars like the Innova that offer unparalleled reliability and resale value!

[Kevinrevvz]

"Brand value" aside, I see absolutely no reason to buy an entry level luxury car over some of the higher end mainstream offerings as they don't just offer better value, they're simply the better cars period.

I compared all the luxury EVs in India and the premium-mainstream IONIQ 5 or EV6 were simply better than their similarly priced "German-luxury" counterparts:

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mg-zs-...en-50l-1-crore

The luxury cars only start to have a clear advantage and distinction well past the 1.5 Crore mark. This corroborates the notion in this thread that entry level luxury offerings under a crore simply has no place in today's market pretty much globally.

Unlike a decade ago, you also don't loose anything going with mainstream cars over luxury counterparts priced 3-4 times higher. In fact you even get a better package in some cases.

A top end Kia Seltos (25L) vs a top end BMW X1 (65L) for example, you get more features, ADAS, similar space and MORE POWER IN THE KIA THAN THE BMW with 30 more horsepower and one more cylinder. Truly dystopian times we live in indeed.

I'm very satisfied with my Honda City Hybrid after having owned many German luxury cars which have become very poor value for money and I wouldn't look past the pre-worshipped route for any luxury car purchases in the future.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/why-i-...onda-city-ehev

[Sbisht24]

its not easy to be a car guy in India, after paying lot of taxes on your income, car, petrol and unnecessary repair expenses due to stupid people on the road

[L8ButV8]

Back in 2010,
- Accord/Superb/Camry/Fortuner/Endeavor cost ~19-23L,
- 3 series and C class started at 26L onwards
- E class at 35-40L post discounts.
The gaps were narrow and there wasn't much room for a disruptor to wedge their way in.

The Germans have dug their own grave by increasing prices exorbitantly, while the core of their cars (engines, comfort etc) haven't changed enough. They've focussed on cosmetic interior & exterior changes, and slowed the rate of true tech innovation. And they had ridiculous after sales experiences (reliability, turn around times, repair costs). It's not surprising that new players attacked and took the market/price points that the Germans vacated, and put out better products.

In my small personal experience-- Our E-Class has done 4k km in 4 years, and instead all running is put on a Camry and Superb. There is simply no incentive to use the E class, as the other two offer everything needed day-to-day, can be put to work on rough roads etc, and don't have the same kind of maintenance headaches.

[Raghu M]

Some of my observations. On one side we see in the news that the luxury car and real estate market has hit the peak in 23 but now I see this article. Very contradicting views too. The luxury car market's prices will keep moving north ward and that's the reason they have that status symbol attached to it. No Merc, BMW or Audi has entry level (in the 15 to 20 lakh range) and hence will continue to command that road respect (of course relatives respect too).

But if people use basic common sense, all the features provided by these big brands are almost available in the next set of brands (Toyota, VAG, Hyundai etc.) and hence the buying trend may slowly move towards these cars but the demand for a luxury car will mostly remain the same (if not increase, it will definitely not decrease). It's not just the insane taxes but also the spares and maintenance of these German brands. The spares are ridiculously highly priced. If you are selling an extremely expensive car, at least make them extremely reliable. I don't think the level of service will get any better too. The brands know that a certain section of the society will eye their products irrespective of the service. If you don't like our service, find an FNG but we will make a sale nonetheless!

[TopLiveCentre]

The Germans always make things difficult for themselves if you look at history. Their cars are a cut above but the cut they take from the spares and service is horrific. They don't want you to change their transmission oil so that they can change the transmission itself, would you believe it? Recently a guy from a German car FNG was telling me how Mercedes is making it difficult for them by denying online access to update the car software after changing some key sensors related to the transmission.

Another fallacy the second hand buyers have is they can get away with it by taking the FNG route. No is the short answer. Lack of expertise and the latest equipment will bog you down and you will be crestfallen to see your car being tinkered around. Recently I saw a mechanic taking down the front door of a 2020 S Class part by part in order to find out how to fix the innards of the rear door. The car remains for long period in the workshop for lack of availability of spares. The so called OE parts in India are just as costly as the original ones and you often get cheated by the first copy.

We know Germans are good people and it is unfair to judge them by their past. They don't live there anymore. Unfortunately their cars do. The service cost, their mark-up for spares, and the take-your-purse-out-we -are-German attitude have killed their cars. No wonder the world is catching up.

[GeeTee TSI]

One would assume the way to increase sales is to expand the range and go for cheaper, lower segments (which some of the luxury brands have, the lame engine specs being proof of that). I wonder if the flat growth of (proper) luxury cars is anything of concern given the high margins and urban focus of the sales.

That said, a high end model (& the largest) from a mainstream brand versus the most entry level (& smallest) from a luxury brand will be horses for courses.

[joy_swift]

This is a very apt thread.

Luxury cars even 10 years back had 2 key differentiators :
1)Engine(Powerful) and 2)Features(Luxury feel).

Both have ceased to exist. Engines have been downsized(e.g - 1.3 turbo petrol in 50+L cars) and quite a few manufacturers like Hyundai , Kia , Mahindra , Jeep , MG , Skoda etc now have the same/more features at half the price. Moreover, they have much less ownership costs.So that joy of owning a luxury car is gone.

From my perspective,I now like to take my Jeep Compass to any place(rough terrain,hill stations) without batting an eyelid. Can I do with some luxury SUV?Probably not.

[Samarth 619]

I'm a biker but I think I can guess some reasons right:-

1. The local brands offer a lot more value for money cars at far lesser prices, compared to import-dominated brands. Fast engines and big tyres are no longer german property alone.

2. Recent years' accidents have dented their reputation as 'indestructible tanks' on the road, even though actual product may be great.
More than a few years ago, we used to hear news like, a BMW crashing into a truck, the truck's occupants injured, and the BMW occupants absconding safely, leaving the car right there.
I know, no car is safe when you're a reckless driver, but too many pics of mutilated BMW's and Audi's floating around on internet is not a pleasant sight. I'm not sure how many will agree that the german luxury cars are still a 'tank', compared to other offerings in (and even below) the segment.

Perceived Safety is a big selling point. And these virals don't help, even if the product is good.

3. Design language, particularly of recent BMW's with those huge grills is out of my taste personally. Older was so subtle, the signature twin grill, I loved it. Newer, huge grills are so "in your face".
This should not affect all brands, but BMW, if at all it does.

4. Too much electronics, and internet integration, some even working against the customer's rights and privacy. Its present in a lot of cars, but its concerning. This is one of my own reasons why not to consider cars from this segment.

5. Emission norms making a big case for (a few years) older vehicles which are lighter, cheaper, and in some cases, faster and more fuel efficient. This could also result in few owners continuing to hold on older vehicles and not upgrading.
Since we just saw 4 huge emission standard upgrades passing through the last 8-10 years, this factor (although its a minor one) should stay for the next few years, after which it may stabilise.

6. Getting more than proportionately expensive. Inflation is one thing, but you can't exceed growth figures of a country. I've heard from actual owners that they got 5 series for a price which can only get you a 2 series today.

7. There's also this perception, that older luxury cars used to outlive the owner, but today they're at best 15-20 year old cars before they require overhaul and extensive maintenance. Not sure completely how true is it though.

I could be wrong though on a couple of points, being a biker. Feel free to quote and correct me, or if you have any comments.

[fhdowntheline]

Think about this: a decade ago, luxury cars had space, comfort, safety, conveniences, technology and performance. Most cars in the 18-30 L price bracket, rival or better the luxury marques in all these categories.

Heated and cooled seats? check.
Space? check.
Sunroof, ICE ? check.
Active and passive safety systems? check.
Performance? check.
Thats the 2023 Verna, retailing for less than half the starting prices of the luxury marques.
And of course there are a few others as well!

[pgsagar]

10-12 years ago LED tail-lights, LED headlights, DRLs, sunroof, cruise-control, ACC, automatic transmission, turbo-petrols, power-adjust seats, ORVMs etc were mostly the preserve of Germans. Now even home-grown Tata and Mahindra are packing their SUVs with all these features and more. Like a tad bigger size and bigger engines. And all this at less than half the price. The spurt in sales of XUV700, Safari, Creta etc must definitely be happening at the cost of these premium brands. Because 10 years ago, I would see at least one brand new Audi/BMW/Merc every time I drove through city. These days I hardly see any. Most new big cars I see are all invariably Mahindra, Tata, Toyota and Koreans. Mahindra's turbo-petrols and diesels too will give these cars a headache on highways. So, no, it doesn't make sense to buy these luxury brands any more, in my opinion unless one is obsessed with logo. Certainly not the lower budget-end models of these brands.

[adityaNview]

Just last month I was looking to buy another set of wheels.. I finalised on a 67000 kms driven, 1st Owner, 2015 Skoda Superb 1.8 MT Petrol. It costed me roughly around 6 Lakhs.
Another car I was looking for was a used but very well maintained, 90000 kms driven, 3rd Owner, 2015
Mercedes E 250d. It was costing me approx 14 Lakhs..
When I compared both cars, side by side, I found that Skoda was more feature rich and offered much more comfort at a lower price point from purchase as well as maintenance point of view.
I maybe wrong here, however I find that it has become increasingly difficult to earn money compared to the last decade.
Add to that the fact that our expenses have increased manifold since then.
So it does make sense to buy cheaper alternatives with more features.
Except for one friend, I recollect that all my friends have technically downgraded when buying new cars.. Those who once had cars from the big 3, have shifted to either Toyota because it’s cheap or Skoda, which offers equivalent performance and comfort.
As GTO has said on multiple occasions, I too would rather enjoy 350 days of a year driving what I love and suffer for maybe 10 days of showroom visits than driving a dull car for 365 days.
Buying a luxury car is only for brand conscious people and the number of those are coming down significantly.

[OrangeCar]

Well, I believe many people are missing the main reason why luxury car sales are not growing. Mercedes India head had already identified the main reason for this.

It was SIPs in Mutual Funds. People are preferring SIPs over buying luxury cars. He of course was trolled for this statement, and later on issued clarifications.

Having said that, it would be a dream for all luxury car makers to see same growth rates that SIP accounts and demat accounts have seen in the past few years!

Link.

[Stribog]

Am confused,

1) luxury car sales grew 20% yoy and hit it's highest ever by volume last year. The previous high was 2018 with around 40,000 units, 2023-24 was 43,500 units. It has risen from 33,000 in 2019.

2) value luxury is really not a large subsegment. Per Economic Times , only the X1 and C class are there in the top selling luxury cars list.

BMW X1
BMW 3 series
Mercedes E Class
Mercedes GLA
Mercedes C Class

The average sticker price, on road is 80l so clearly the market really doesn't care much about the value luxury segment.

That being said, I believe that with growth slowing down entirely in Europe and the US for these marquee brands, there is a case to be made for greater localisation and lower costs for entry level luxury cars. These should retail in the 35-40L OTR range, this pricing + the aspirational value of the Germans would superheat their sales performance.

[adimax24]

<First post on Team-BHP after having read it for more than 12 years>

While it is difficult to disagree that cars from mainstream brands priced between 30-50 lakh offer more space, power and features compared to entry-level German cars priced between 60-70 lakh, I would like to argue that sedans are completely absent in this range. I understand that sedans have gone out of fashion and hence do not add to 'growth' for any auto companies.

However, if one (a niche customer today) is looking for an exciting sedan which is a level up in power, size, and interior quality from Slavia 1.5 / Verna 1.5 turbo, then what are the options? With Octavia gone, one invariably ends up considering A4, 2 series or the 330Li. Or one compromises with a XUV700.

While we are talking about a substantial increase in price (from 25 to 60-75 range), but could serious sedan-only buyers might be taking the jump to Germans, instead of not solely seeking snob-value?