[Guna]

How is this 'series hybrid' different from Nissan's e-Power system? In case of Nissan, it was regarded as sophisticated system and here with Maruti Suzuki, it has been projected as just cost effective system.
BTW I remember reading a review of Nissan X-Trail with e_power hybrid system and the fuel efficiency was not great, nowhere close to traditional hybrid cars.

[GTO]

This is quite big news & is literally Maruti's fight for survival in a market where the company is already 5 years behind its rivals in EV technology. It also shows that not all is well in the Maruti-Toyota relationship, and Maruti isn't completely satisfied with Toyota's hybrid tech (or its pricing).

Originally Posted by Reinhard

What exactly will be the benefit of this over a simple petrol car? The car will carry a much heavier power-train setup (due to ICE engine + battery pack + motors + associated heavier suspension components).

Let's say the small battery has a range of 60 km (example). It means your daily city commute will be done on EV power only. Once the battery is dead, then the petrol engine will kick in.

The two main advantages:

1. Your daily commuting can be either 100% (or majority) in EV mode only.

2. Even if you do 50% of the journey on battery alone, and 50% with the generator (engine) running, the fuel economy will still be astounding.

The Chevrolet Volt is perhaps the most famous range extender car of our times. But typical of GM, they didn't really have the skills to make the technology go mainstream.

Each & every Chevrolet Volt ownership review I've read has the owner highly praising the car - link to a real-world review with commenting.

[vimalgk]

I always used to wonder why no manufacturer has thought about this technology. This is already a proven technology in the Rail Locomotives. How hard could it be to bring it to a passenger car? Granted there could be challenges all along to make it affordable and really efficient. I will put my money on an SUV with this technology rather than going pure EV.

[armaaan.in]

Originally Posted by GTO

Let's say the small battery has a range of 60 km (example). It means your daily city commute will be done on EV power only. Once the battery is dead, then the petrol engine will kick in.

Originally Posted by volkman10

The compact Z12E will act as a generator to charge a 1.5-2kWh battery pack or drive an efficient electric motor that, in turn, drives the front wheels.

It's highly unlikely for a 1.5-2 kWh battery to provide a 60 km range, based on experiences with similar-sized batteries in cars like the Grand Vitara. Even under optimal conditions – fully charged to 5 points, with the car set to 22/23 degrees Celsius and fan speed at 1/2 bar – the range is only 3-4 km. To achieve a real-world 60 km range, Maruti would need to consider a larger 9-10 kWh battery atleast. However, this could potentially contradict the goal of cost reduction.

[extreme_torque]

Series hybrid is actually the correct terms for it because although the propulsion is coming from electric motors, the battery is very small - around a kilowatt or so. For the most part Honda City Hybrid is also a series hybrid. It is only when running on the highway over 100 kph that a clutch pack engages the engine with the front wheels kind of like a 6th overdrive gear. Nissan has also been doing series hybrid in its hybrid cars such as the latest Qashqai or the XTrail Hybrid.

Range extender is still an EV but with a fairly decent sized battery but a small petrol engine to generate electricity to charge the battery.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by vimalgk

I always used to wonder why no manufacturer has thought about this technology. This is already a proven technology in the Rail Locomotives.

My first thought when seeing the technical description was the magnificent WDP4 .

On a serious note, I hope it becomes a success in India and brings hybrids to the masses. The Honda tech is simply too complex and expensive in the long run.

[achintatri]

Please pardon my lack of knowledge on the hybrid tech BUT can we compare this parallel and series hybrid tech with a similar Diwali light i.e. in a series based light even if One bulb fuses the whole light is useless but in parallel only the fused bulb is useless and rest of the bulbs still work.

So in a parallel hybrid tech that is currently available in the market, if battery is gone the IC engine would still run the vehicle however in case of a series tech if battery fails, you are gone for a toss (since someone mentioned that the vehicle tramsmission is directly connected to the battery rather than the IC engine).

What am I missing?

Continuing the same thought, if manufacturers are so confident that modern day batteries can run modern day vehicles efficiently, why spend money and effort in IC engines, we have to reduce dependency on fossil fuels and including fossil fuels in any experimentation like this would defend that purpose.

To me it looks like a very risky experiment (outcome) that might provide a short term solution to save money but ultimately the net savings would not be the optimized one. Unless I am completely oblivious of this new tech, please let me know why someone would choose this over a parallel hybrid or even newly launching and better ranging EVs.

[delusional_fool]

Originally Posted by Guna

BTW I remember reading a review of Nissan X-Trail with e_power hybrid system and the fuel efficiency was not great, nowhere close to traditional hybrid cars.

That's right, the fuel efficiency wasn't great in that case but it would still be a lot better than than pure petrol cars.

I think this has a great potential and can be a good replacement for diesel till full electrification is done. I can see the following advantages,

1. This is essentially an electric car that is charged using engine instead of plug-in charger. With poor electric infra, this is a great compromise.

2. Fuel efficiency could be really good (not sure if claimed 35 KM/L is feasible though) since Fronx is a light car and the engine is gonna run at the most efficient RPM range for most of the time. Also Maruthi can even use less powerful and more efficient engine

3. Cost can be kept low since this doesn't need a huge battery pack and also won't need some of the components like gearbox. But the pure electric only range will be pretty low probably less than 10 KM.

[Gamemaztr]

Prima facie, the Autocar article talks about development of a new Series Hybrid tech by Maruti on the lines of the ones used by Nissan. This video shows the Hybrid System which is in use in Europe.

The Series Hybrid system used by Nissan uses a Petrol Engine running on fixed RPM to charge a Battery and power the Electric Motor. This system could help address poor engine power issue in Maruti Cars since the car runs on pure electric motor power at all times.

[AntPaul]

Originally Posted by GTO

Let's say the small battery has a range of 60 km (example). It means your daily city commute will be done on EV power only. Once the battery is dead, then the petrol engine will kick in.

1. Your daily commuting can be either 100% (or majority) in EV mode only.
[/url].

I do not think that is how this system works. The key words "Plug in" are missing. That means the battery present in the car would not be capable of being charged via an external charger. So the 60Km range has to come from the ICE engine running at some rpms, at some point in time, based on the current battery state. The battery will be always have to maintain 'X' percentage of charge to help sudden ask for power.

Even 20Km of home charged(plug in) range with the range extender engine would make a lot of sense in cities. The battery pack will need to be 10% the size of that in say a Punch.ev.

Thanks,
Antony

[PreludeSH]

Isn't it similar (not 100%) to Civic and Accord. Only at high speeds the motor drives the wheels directly since its very efficient at that speed/rpm.

Wish Maruti could license it from Honda Hope the battery is little bigger so that it can start with electric only mode is charged.

[ferrarirules]

Why Maruti Why? Researching and perfecting new tech (New for Maruti) is easier said than done. According to me, they have a tech tie up with Toyota. They should try to milk the same and localize their tech. And they have a mastery in component localization.

According to me, they should be investing their time and money on plugin hybrids if not EVs. Rest everything is hogwash.

A plugin hybrid (example - Prius Prime in US) has a 70 km EV range which will suffice most of the local city driving and it has a petrol motor to power it for long trips.

Till the time the car is not a plugin hybrid, i don't see the fuel efficiency figures crossing 30 kmpl at max. To put it in perspective, Prius prime claims of mileage of around 48 kmpl.

[antz.bin]

The system being described here is similar to the one employed in the Honda City Hybrid.

1.5-2 kWH is a battery smaller than the smallest capacity Ola S1X scooter. In the Best-Case scenario, it will provide ~15km of range at moderate speeds. But it doesn't make sense to provide a plug to charge such a small battery AND so there is no way to fully charge the battery apart from burning petrol.

This is how most Hydrogen FCEVs also work where the Fuel Cell is used to generate electricity that charges an on-board battery. Such a vehicle could potentially use the Atkinson cycle engine for better fuel efficiency in order to charge the battery. Toyota seems to have quite a lot of experience with Hydrogen powertrains AND Atkinson cycle engines. Maybe those technologies are being repurposed in this application.

All this while the battery is used to power the wheels. But with a battery this small, I doubt it can output too much power/current into the wheels sustainably. Remember that the MR versions of Tata EVs have lower power outputs to protect the battery from excessive power draw. The way to overcome this drawback is to also have supercapacitors for that can provide that sudden bursts of power for fast acceleration while the battery can be used to maintain steady speeds. The drawback here is the additional cost of the supercapacitors.

I hope MSIL can figure this one out. Wish them all the luck.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by achintatri

Please pardon my lack of knowledge on the hybrid tech

however in case of a series tech if battery fails, you are gone for a toss (since someone mentioned that the vehicle tramsmission is directly connected to the battery rather than the IC engine).

What am I missing?

You were almost there. But as Maruti mentioned, the Engine+Generator is used to charge the battery as well as drive the motor. When battery is charged it drives the motor else the generator drives it.

So even if the battery goes for a toss, I think the car will continue to run with electric power from generator driving the motor.

[raptor_diwan]

I read somewhere that the same technology was used by BMW in their hybrid models, though I'm not sure where, and I can't find the exact concept in the BMW forum. Anyway, if this technology is priced properly, it could become a star in the Indian car market just for its mileage alone.