[Carma2017]

The entire issue is a fallout of the Daihatsu issue and the resultant self introspection is throwing up such news. The actual fact is that there is nothing wrong with the engines. They will undergo recertification as it should have been done in the first place and then start sales. This is nowhere close to the VW Dieselgate which was a daylight robbery. Comparitively this is a documentation and testing method error. Of course, someone at Toyota Industries Corporation (TICO) will lose jobs and some senior people will resign but it is not really a major problem for customers. As a Precaution, sales have been stopped of 3 affected engines.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by GTO

It may be recollected that Toyota had pulled the Diesel Innova off the market, back in Sept 2022, due to emission irregularities. Autocar had reported on the same, but that news was eventually pulled down.

Link to post (Toyota stops taking bookings for Innova Crysta diesel | EDIT: Back in Jan 2023)

Toyota's PR machinery then swung into action & made some lame claims that "we have stopped bookings due to excessive demand & backlog" .

If someone like Toyota cannot get emissions right, there is seriously something wrong. VW scam, I was a little surprised. Toyota? I am shocked!

Seriously?!

This is like a famous airplane company saying " we will review the design to make a "safe" plane "safer". On a more serious note, the demand for Scorpio, Safari, Harrier, Hector, even Compass will shoot through the proverbial sunroof especially with election season approaching.

[anjan_c2007]

It's a shocking revelation by the world's top carmaker. Toyota sells more diesels though in the markets of several Asian and other developing countries around the globe.

At first sight, someone could conclude that with Toyota getting trapped, its advantage GM for the American market. But Toyota's best selling sedans, the Camry and Corolla for the American market are preferred in their gasoline versions.

The payable fines and damage control measures could dent Toyota's balancesheet however.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

It's a shocking revelation by the world's top carmaker.

Is it? It was just last year they were caught cheating crash safety norms!

Toyota and its small-car specialist Daihatsu have been caught cheating side-impact crash tests for four new models destined to be sold in countries that already have comparatively weak safety standards.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...-models-2.html (Toyota caught cheating side-impact crash tests for 4 new models)

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

It's a shocking revelation by the world's top carmaker. Toyota sells more diesels though in the markets of several Asian and other developing countries around the globe.

At first sight, someone could conclude that with Toyota getting trapped, its advantage GM for the American market. But Toyota's best selling sedans, the Camry and Corolla for the American market are preferred in their gasoline versions.

The payable fines and damage control measures could dent Toyota's balancesheet however.

The real question frankly speaking is , does it even matter ? So many companies have been caught in such imbroglios. Nothing ever came out of it. Its part of the too-big-to-fail syndrome. Even governments would hesitate to intervene for socio-economic implications. Bow your heads in public and move on. That's all that can happen.

[krishnakumar]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

This is nowhere close to the VW Dieselgate which was a daylight robbery. Comparitively (sic) this is a documentation and testing method error.

+1, at least based on reading their press release but it has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

To remind what VW did, for the benefit of uninitiated visiting this forum - VW rigged their software to detect when the vehicle was put on emissions test and the car would operate at lower emissions to pass the test. Out on the road, it’ll be back to its polluting self. That is, the same engine would operate completely differently depending on the conditions met.

If what Toyota is saying is true (with no loose ends) then it looks like the initial certification was based on a different engine power graph output than what was produced. They seem to clarify that the mass produced ones also meet the standards which they wouldn’t if it was similar to VW Dieselgate. At its face value, this seems to be preempting another blow-up scandal that they had with Daihatsu, for a relatively minor problem. Taking this out now while Toyota is reeling under Daihatsu scandal, just makes them come out of this tide sooner than waiting for it to all boil over. (Just my take on this, btw).

Will be keen to see how this unfolds.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The real question frankly speaking is , does it even matter ?

Plus, The governments cannot act because the yardsticks (that were not met) were created by them, and it is now very clear that even those companies with huge R&D and sincerity are struggling to meet such emission specifications. Let us exclude VW Dieselgate from this, of course.

The world has realized with much pain that there is no such thing as "clean" coal technology, despite spending billions of research $$$ in the late 20th century. We can safely assume diesel too is going that way.

[speedguy]

This is shocking, but what's more shocking is how did ARAI or similar competent authority missed this? We have COP certification norms (Conformity of Production) which is in effect to prevent this from happening.
COP certifies that whatever components were used during Homologation process, are exactly the same during & after the production version of the car.

[ferrarirules]

It has been 10 years since VW dieselgate came into light. For people who need a recap, here is the link to the wiki article providing details on the same.

And now the world largest manufacturer of Automobiles is found cheating in multiple cases. I think the pursuit of profit, blinds the biggest and the best as well. This is the third scandal related to Toyota group that has come to light in last two years, pointing to failing corporate governance and quality standards at Toyota over the years.

1. In March 2022, Hino Motors Ltd., another Toyota subsidiary, admitted in March 2022 to submitting fraudulent emissions and fuel economy data to transport authorities. The timeline of the fraud - 2 decades
2. In December 2023, Toyota's small-car unit Daihatsu Motor Co. stopped all shipments at home and abroad after a third-party investigation found that safety tests for most of its models were rigged. Daihatsu admitted to the allegations. Timeline of the fraud - 3 decades.
3. In January 2023, Toyota Industries doctored the volume of fuel injection in engine output tests in a bid to make the engines' torque, or rotational force, appear better than it was, according to a report by a third-party panel. Timeline of fraud - Yet to be ascertained.

Toyota's small-car unit Daihatsu Motor Co. stopped all shipments at home and abroad last month after a third-party investigation found that safety tests for most of its models were rigged.
Hino Motors Ltd., another Toyota subsidiary, admitted in March 2022 to submitting fraudulent emissions and fuel economy data to transport authorities.
The 10 models also include the Hiace, the Fortuner and the Innova. The cars were sold in Japan, Europe and the Middle East, among other markets. The output data rigging dates back to 2017, Toyota Industries said.
"We feel deeply responsible for the misconduct, which persisted for a long time, and for failing to discover and rectify it," Toyota Industries President Koichi Ito said at a press conference. "We will do our utmost to rebuild the company with legal compliance as our top priority."
Toyota has decided to stop six production lines at four of its domestic factories until Feb. 1 due to the shipment halt, it said.
Toyota Industries doctored the volume of fuel injection in engine output tests in a bid to make the engines' torque, or rotational force, appear better than it was, according to a report by a third-party panel.

Source - Kyodo News

[audioholic]

If the actual torque outputs that were demonstrated for certification doctored, then would the real world torque output be less? Does someone have a dyno report of a stock Toyota BS6 Diesel car conducted? Do the power/torque figures somewhat match?

[volkman10]

Toyota Industries factory probed over engine data rigging scandal.

Japan's transport ministry inspected a Toyota Industries Corp. factory in central Japan, a day after the company admitted to rigging engine power data resulting in a partial halt of shipments from major automaker Toyota Motor Corp.



Based on the results, the ministry is expected to determine the severity of administrative punishment it will impose on Toyota Industries, such as an operation correction order and the revocation of certifications needed for mass production.

The issue:

Toyota Industries fabricated data on diesel engines it makes and supplies to the automaker. The affected vehicles include popular models such as the Land Cruiser 300 Series and the Hilux.

Toyota Industries doctored the volume of flow into the fuel injectors in engine output tests in a bid to make the engines' torque, or rotational force at the crankshaft, appear higher than it is, according to a report by a third-party panel.

The data rigging was also found in the testing for all industrial engines Toyota Industries currently produces, and it has stopped shipment of the affected products.

Toyota Motor Corp. was spun off from Toyota Industries in the late 1930s and the latter remains the one of the largest shareholders in the automaker, holding an 8.82 percent stake as of the end of September 2023.

Speaking at a press conference in Tokyo on Monday, Toyota Industries President Koichi Ito apologized for troubling customers, saying the management is responsible for "failing to discover and rectify" the misconduct that persisted for a long time.


Link:

[touring_spirit]

Ideally, OEMs are supposed to declare all the emission strategies (including calibrations and maps used etc.) to the certification authorities. Any strategy which is leading to a spike in emission during normal use cases or corner cases need to be declared as well. Cars get homologated with a set engine, exhaust gas after-treatment hardware and SW. Any deviation has to be reported and certified again.

On the outside it looks like naivety on Toyota's part. But generally, we have seen that in the end it all boils to down to how much time and money can be saved.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I am not sure where you heard of so many DPF issues. There are a few on the forum but its a small fraction compared to how many cars they sell and the sort of distance they cover. Also, the issue here doesnt relate to DPF but instead certification and sale inconsistencies. So better avoid speculation unless you can provide technical explanation to the turn of events.

Toyota's DPF related issues and their reliability concerns made big news in Australia, so much so that there is a public lawsuit for the same.

What cars are affected by the Toyota class action on DPFs?

A total of 264,170 vehicles are affected by this class action, including some of Toyota’s most popular and successful models.

The class action relates to defective diesel particulate filter (DPF) units fitted to models with the 2.4-litre ‘2GD-FTV’ and more common 2.8-litre ‘1GD-FTV’ four-cylinder turbo diesel engines.


The 2.8-litre engine has been used in the Toyota HiLux, Fortuner and LandCruiser Prado. They all fall under this class action.

The same engine was also used in the Toyota HiAce van and Granvia people mover, but they are not included in this class action.

The 2.4-litre turbo diesel engine is only used on lower specification grade HiLux utes and is less common.

Link

[TorqueIndia]

Toyota chairman AKIO TOYODA expresses deepest apologies to the customers and stake holders on the successive irregularities by the group in the press conference during the unveil of the group's future vision.

Initially, the Group vision was to be shared on February 14, the birthday of Sakichi Toyoda.
However, considering the recent situation of the Group companies, it's considered as a PR attempt to control the damage.

You could say we have been living in an automobile industry that has been woven together by the vertical and horizontal threads spun by our predecessors.

However, as the automobile industry developed and Toyota Group companies started to experience success, they lost sight of the values and priorities that should have been upheld. I am ashamed to admit that this is the case.

The first company to face such a situation was Toyota Motor Corporation itself.

We pursued expansion of scale, prioritizing volume and profitability over the making of ever-better cars, and ultimately fell into the red for the first time in company history during the 2008 financial crisis.

As a result, we caused inconvenience to many people who supported the automobile industry.

Furthermore, due to global recalls, we lost the trust of our customers which is of the utmost importance to us.

I consider Toyota to have collapsed at that point.

With every ounce of myself and the help of our partners, we have finally rebuilt the company to the point where it can be called a carmaker again.

But it was not only Toyota that lost sight of its founding principles. I believe the same thing that happened to Toyota back then is currently happening to other Group companies.

In closing, I would like to express my deepest apologies to our customers and stakeholders for the inconvenience and concern caused by the successive irregularities at Hino Motors, Daihatsu, and Toyota Industries.

Toyota Motor Corp

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

Toyota's DPF related issues and their reliability concerns made big news in Australia, so much so that there is a public lawsuit for the same.

Link

The modifications pertaining to this issue have already been in the market from 2020. The issue arouse out of people not being able to manually regenerate the DPF which led to severe clogging and soot formation around the fifth injector, which further worsened the situation. But this current issue is something else, thats to do with fudging of data and test setup.