[Carpainter]

Note to Mods- Please move this thread to an appropriate forum if this is not the right place for the topic. Also merge with an existing thread on the same topic if any.

Before I begin, NO, I’m not in the market now to buy a new car. I just want to start this discussion to understand what bhpians would prefer or suggest to someone in this dilemma. Specially after the facelift launch of the most successful car in this segment, the almighty Creta. Even the most hideous looking design couldn’t quell its sales numbers. Infact, not just Creta but most of the recent launches like the Seltos or even the Elevate didn’t come with a hybrid. Everyone expected Honda to put the City’s hybrid powertrain in the Elevate to differentiate it from the Koreans and attain scale of production but they decided to go full electric only in the future.
In this market scenario, setting aside the rumours that the Government may offer tax exemptions to hybrids in the future, would you choose a hybrid over a similarly priced diesel/ turbo petrol. For example MS Grand Vitara or Toyota Hyryder strong hybrid variants cost almost similar to what the new Creta or Seltos top variant diesel or 1.5L turbo ask for. Here, I’m keeping the 1.5L turbo out of the equation because the target audience of that engine is totally different from that of either diesel or hybrid.


For someone whose usage is below 1000-1200kms a month, buying a NA petrol (or turbo petrol for fun to drive) would be the best choice as has been discussed many times in this forum. Question is for someone whose usage is over 1500kms a month, what would you suggest. Diesel had been the de facto choice for these customers but does the hybrid offer anything better today. After BS6 phase 2, even Toyota diesels are not as reliable as they were and many people are afraid to plonk big money in diesel fearing govt. regulations to hit in the coming years. Still there are people who love the torquey diesel over boring and linear hybrids. But hybrids offer better future proofing and greener footprint for those who care. Companies are offering 8 years warranty on hybrid battery to sweeten the deal.


So was it a miss by Hyundai, Kia or Honda to not offer hybrid in their latest offerings or do we still have a long way to go before hybrids can become a mainstream choice. Also, if hybrid is the future that will bridge the gap before we go full on EV (I like the idea of hydrogen fuel more than EV) as some industry experts say, then who are the target customers for their diesel options now.

[nutcracker]

I just booked 2 diesel cars after much discussion and contemplation: the Altroz and the Jeep Compass. I am located in NCR, yet I made this decision.

My running is close to 20,000 kms per year, per car.

Yes, it was a big miss by Hyundai and Kia to not offer hybrid, I was expecting much more. And dishing about 18-22L on a 1.5L diesel engine makes no financial sense to me. (the Altroz is offering a punchy 1.5L diesel at about 10L).

I contemplated the idea of going EV, but the numbers didn't make sense.

So i guess I'm the target audience for diesel engines?

[07CR]

I recently let go a BS4 Ecosport S TDCI and purchased a Seltos GT LINE DCT. My monthly running is 1000 kms between my two turbo petrol cars (Sonet T GDI and Seltos T GDI).

Would I have purchased a hybrid Seltos if it was available?
Maybe. I had considered even a Hyryder, but was disappointed with the interior quality and NVH levels. The interior quality and NVH of Seltos, but with hybrid would have been ideal bet for me ( even despite the performance negative). The turbo petrol of seltos is very very powerful! I would have missed that power. But what I have seen is Seltos is even more than adequate in Eco mode for me. So that kind of power in a hybrid would have been ideal.

Strict NO for diesel now. Not only because of uncertainty of diesel, but also because of the BS6 diesel DPF issues.

[Carpainter]

Originally Posted by nutcracker

I just booked 2 diesel cars after much discussion and contemplation: the Altroz and the Jeep Compass. I am located in NCR, yet I made this decision.

I contemplated the idea of going EV, but the numbers didn't make sense.

So i guess I'm the target audience for diesel engines?

Yes but would you suggest someone with same kind of yearly mileage to go for hybrid instead of diesel now specially considering the fact that NCR has been one step ahead in strict sanctions against diesels. I think for someone like your kind of running and guessing some of it is highway usage, an EV would still be a disadvantage with our current charging infrastructure. Hybrid is a new tech in India (not abroad) and relatively costly but do you believe it's prudent to adopt hybrid cars now.

Originally Posted by 07CR

I recently let go a BS4 Ecosport S TDCI and purchased a Seltos GT LINE DCT. My monthly running is 1000 kms between my two turbo petrol cars (Sonet T GDI and Seltos T GDI).

Would I have purchased a hybrid Seltos if it was available?
Maybe. I had considered even a Hyryder, but was disappointed with the interior quality and NVH levels. The interior quality and NVH of Seltos, but with hybrid would have been ideal bet for me ( even despite the performance negative). The turbo petrol of seltos is very very powerful! I would have missed that power. But what I have seen is Seltos is even more than adequate in Eco mode for me. So that kind of power in a hybrid would have been ideal.

Strict NO for diesel now. Not only because of uncertainty of diesel, but also because of the BS6 diesel DPF issues.

Yes that's what I'm talking about. For someone who would've gone for a hybrid if it were available in their preferred model would've been excellent isn't it. Many people like you are put off by the inferior build quality of Hyryder/ GV twins (questionable as not NCAP tested) and unimpressive interior or space management compared to the competition. City does a better job in this respect but our preference for suv is probably the biggest reason for its subpar sales.

My thought is I think hybrids are the best of both worlds, may be not from an enthusiast point of view but for practicality and long term ownership. It covers the limitation of EV charging station and new age diesel issues. Hybrids will also reduce the usage of fossil fuel, thereby, reducing pollution as well as import bills for India. But with limited number of models and thereby people not opting for them may send a wrong message to the manufacturers and we could miss out on this viable option and end up with too many EVs but not charging stations or electricity specially in semi urban or rural areas.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Carpainter

Question is for someone whose usage is over 1500kms a month, what would you suggest. Diesel had been the de facto choice for these customers but does the hybrid offer anything better today.

First of all, these days we have limited choices in terms of cars with hybrid or diesel powertrains.

I’m also assuming that a hybrid or a diesel car has a petrol equivalent. Keeping all things the same, very few car owners will be able to justify buying a hybrid or a diesel over petrol when it comes to price. The breakeven point in terms of km for both diesels and hybrids is pretty high. You might start seeing benefits only after about 1-1.25L km, which most car owners will never even see. Still, between the two - hybrid or diesel, I would pick diesel. The hybrid’s battery cost has to be factored in + the unknown resale value at the time of selling would make me go for a diesel.

These days, I don’t even recommend a diesel to anyone who’s doing less than 25k kms a year.

[GTO]

Hybrids are very new in the mainstream cars at accessible price points. They still have a long way to go:

- The customer mindspace is already occupied with EVs and there are so many electric cars! It's very tough for hybrids to compete with this.

- We need better pricing. Honda brought a fabulous City Hybrid, but they overpriced it. In Mumbai, the City ZX CVT is 19.xx lakhs OTR, while the ZX Hybrid is 24.xx lakhs.

- Toyota's hybrid in the Innova Hycross & Camry is damn good, but their choice of hybrid powertrain in the Grand Vitara / Hyryder is average at best. Noisy, 3-cylinder engine, runs out of steam beyond 110 kmph. In comparison, the Diesel AT crossovers are top-class.

- We need the technology in a wider range of cars and at better prices.

- Hybrid tech needs to come down to the 10-15 lakh segments. Let's start off with premium hatchbacks.

- We need more customer education of hybrids and their benefits (especially FE).

As things stand, I would pick a Hybrid or Diesel depending on the car. Among the 20-lakh crossovers, the Diesel AT of Hyundai-Kia is almost flawless. Big SUVs, the XUV700 & Safari have superb Diesel ATs. For hybrid, I'd get the City, Innova Hycross & Camry.

[Axe77]

If I was looking for FE, I’d pick a strong hybrid over a diesel every single time. I might pit the strong hybrid against an EV rather than a diesel, in case I wanted a blend of performance and efficiency both.

If I was looking at performance and EV was not on the table for any reason, I’d pick a turbo petrol over a strong hybrid. I’m yet to come across a strong hybrid that is fun to drive in varying conditions. Even the Hycross and Camry can be termed as only ‘adequate’ when it comes to spirited highway driving.

[shortbread]

From now on it's EV any day for me, and for anyone contemplating a future purchase, I'm sure within the next 18-24 month time period EV prices will closely match that of IC variants plus provide increased range. From that point on the cost savings will simply make the argument redundant.

[blogslogger]

I was recently in the market for a car with a budget of 20-25L. My average running is 30,000 Km a year so petrol was not considered. After lots of deliberation, I came to the conclusion that at least under 30L, there is no good mile-muncher hybrid. Vitara and Hyryder had mediocre interiors and evident cost cutting. City was considered but quickly disbanded due to low ground clearance. The decent options were Harrier, Seltos, Creta.

The product positioning of Hyundai-Kia is so good that they have quietly cornered the Diesel AT market. My driving didn't warrant any DPF concerns as well.
Finally went with Seltos D AT.

[heydj]

I would prefer Diesel and own a Diesel Tucson. Hybrid / EV I am only going to choose due to government norms, else No.

Powerful turbo Diesel (2L+) or NA Petrol (2L+) any given day for me.

[Small Bot]

My use-case is mostly within the city. As in, both cars are used 80-90% inside the city, in bumper-to-bumper daily traffic, with the occasional highway trip once a quarter.

With the amount of issues and rants around BS6 diesel engines posted on this forum only, I decided that diesels are not for me. Probably BS4, but not BS6 and above. This was the key factor for me not opting for diesels, otherwise I'd have jumped at the Sonet or Nexon Diesel AT.

So I got two mild hybrid cars for a combined 30-something lakhs that we could budget for, a Brezza and Grand Vitara. I could have gone for strong hybrid for at least the Grand Vitara, but it was shot down by family, citing the upfront additional price and the lack of boot space in the strong hybrid version. These two give me around 9-12 kmpl inside the city and are generally low-maintenace and that's exactly what I wanted.

We know that this is a phase before we all land up in EVs, so I didn't want to splurge on diesel cars that might not last (or rather be allowed to last) the envisioned 10-15 years of usage.

[Carpainter]

Thank you all for your valuable response. So the general consensus so far is in favour of either pure gasoline engine or EV over hybrid. No doubt the sales figure reflect the same on the monthly charts. Still I'd request mods to add a poll to this thread if possible so that the opinions can be clearly portrayed.

[ABHI_1512]

After the BS6.1 and BS6.2 update, Diesels are almost as clean as petrols. This vilification of diesels is so unfortunate. Diesels offer more power and provide better mileage figures anyday. Using diesel means you are burning less fuel than petrol and also getting more mileage and which in turn means we are importing less as well. Given a choice as of today, I would steer clear of EV’s and not hybrids as such but still go for a diesel car provided running is high and petrol if running is less !!

[sulliavi]

I would buy diesel against hybrid in current scenario. Didn't like the drive of hybrid Hyrider/GVitara. I would love to drive Honda Elevate hybrid eHEV if that comes in the future, that would be something else.
Coming to DPF issues, being a diesel BS 6.1 SUV owner, I never had any DPF issues in my last 9 months of ownership apart from few DPF clogging alerts which would vanish in 10-15 minute drive. Post 7k odo, I never encountered DPF alerts.

peace

[vattyboy]

I am a Diesel lover because of its strong performance due to its low-end torque (any day I will consider 530d over 530i), but I can also consider the other 2 engine options as long as they provide me with good power and torque sadly hybrid options are very limited in our current market while with turbo petrol we have to compromise on mileage.

I was in a market with 25 Lacs and bought a New Creta SX(O) D AT this month because of its reliability, performance and mileage.