[SmartCat]

Models popular with cab drivers is actually the best indicator of low "Total cost of ownership" or TCO. Good reliability is just one sub-set of TCO when it comes to automobile ownership.

The number of reliable models is actually quite large, and looking at taxi models unncecessarily filters out a big percentage of cars on sale. A car model's reliability comes from product development, component sourcing and manufacturing process. So it entirely depends on the company that is selling the car.

So "Brand" still remains the best filter for reliability.

[motorworks]

I think we are missing a point here. Fleet operators and Taxi drivers running out of choices now. Tata is no longer catering to this segment, Mahindra just has the Marazzo and its a car they seem least interested in, their entire focus is on the 15-30 lakh segment. Hyundai too seems to have off late lost interest in this segment after their Xcent became the Aura. So, weirdly, the entire Taxi segment is dominated by Maruti Suzuki with the S-presso, Dzire and the Ertiga, all CNG variants. Toyota continues to rule the MUV taxi segment, but even there i feel its not long before the diesel Innova is pulled out and we have to wait and see how a monocoque innova hycross is going to stand the test of time and abuse in comparison to the regular body on frame innovas.

With diesel out of the scheme, almost all taxis are CNGs, which leads to almost zero boot space. Just look at a dzire taxi with the CNG tank, hard to place even two laptop bags or even a cabin size luggage.

Second, the current taxi market is moving towards Dzires & Ertigas due to the CNG option. We have all discussed in various threads and forums on the declining quality of lot of interior parts in Marutis. So how well are these cars like Dzire and Ertiga going to take the abuse?

In my view, the perfect Taxi was the Logan / Verito followed by the Etios. Enough boot space, diesel engines, wide cabin space and a well sorted ride. The 1st gen Innova and the innova crysta were and are simply unbeatable anyway, but their use case is more for longer trips and when you need to move around more than 3-4 people.

For all my early morning airport trips in Bangalore I have always preferred Logan and the Etios. The dzires and the xcents feel so unsettling, and in comparison the ride in the Logan seems fantastic. And you can look at the kind of kms these Logans and the Etios taxis have covered over the years. The taxi folks are generally happier with the Etios, they claim better efficiency and lower service costs, but the Logan / Verito were also not that far behind. They still stand the test of time and abuse.

So in a way, the fleet operators may not be in a happy place now, the diesels are gone ( except the Innova ), the CNG tanks compromise on the boot space, and i really don’t know how well the newer Dzires and Ertigas will holdup in the long run. And I don’t think they do, i have rarely come across a Dzire tour ( 1st gen dzire which sold along side the Logan and the Etios ) that is in as good shape as a Logan / Etios. Just my opinion.

[GeeTee TSI]

The Innova I think is the only taxi which considers customer preference of space and comfort (besides reliability for the driver). Fleet operators worth their salt (especially serving corporates) will know better than to substitute the Innova with a cheaper to own/run Xylo or Marazzo. The Ertiga is a fair balance in my view.

Most other taxis (sedans), I rate them as terrible to travel from a comfort/refinement/practicality point of view. The dated Verito/Logan still stands out as the better sedan. I wish there were Lodgys available for airport rides than cramped 4m sedans

[wr10forever]

In and about my hometown right at the foothills of Uttarakhand, the taxi market is a bit different. The most commonly used taxi is the Alto, followed closely by Mahindra Maxx/Bolero and the Tavera.

People travelling to their villages in the hills usually carry lots of luggage and stuff which is mounted on the top of these Boleros and I cannot think of many other vehicles which can battle the uphill inclines better, all while being overloaded with 10-12 people and their load of food grains, vegetables etc. (more common than one would think).

The Alto is a go-to choice for other people like tourists who have lesser luggage. The affordability and light kerb weight of the car probably makes it the number one choice.

Innovas I've seen running around the region are pretty much all outstation taxis, the Dzire and Eeco are nowhere nearly as common as it is in other parts of India.

All this leads me to believe that it's not just reliability and cost of ownership, but also the usage pattern and the requirements of the target demographic which affect the car choice of taxi drivers.

[R_Gowardhan]

Recently came across a Swift Dzire Tour diesel (first gen Dzire shilloute) which looked pristine inside out. It looked like it was brought out of the showroom no more than 6 months ago. There were no rattles or squeaks and the engine was surprising silent.

To my shock & surprise, this was a 2016 model and had 7.5+ Lac Kilometers on the odo. The driver told me that the car had been refurbished 4 months back with a full engine rebuild, suspension & clutch overhaul and change of all rubbers & seals. MGP parts used all through. Total cost for refurbishment : INR 95k

That's when I had a hearty discussion with the driver who has been driving for last 20 years. He understood vehicles very well. I could conclude that it was more to do with the driver's skill and usage pattern rather than the car.

[ritedhawan]

I believe a car that can bear the brunt of the cabbie usage patterns, and still comes out shining deserves a round of applause. I believe, with the round the clock usage of cars, I am talking about those scenarios where you would find one driver using the car during daytime as uber and another driver using the same car all night as MNC cabs. These cars which their respective owners making sure are serviced on time albeit from FNG’s. They continue to hog road space, and it may not be far from truth that the on-time service is not the only factor making sure they continue, the relative experience of the drivers, the over-the-counter availability of spares and the cost of the same, etc are important factors as well. The cars that do justice to the above needs usually come from Maruti, Hyundai stables. Their usages are restricted amongst metro’s and are more likely fuelled by CNG.

Then comes the operators whose vehicles that are driven over highways, the MUV’s to be specific. Pre-Innova days, there used to be a constant grouse amongst this taxi-segment regarding the unavailability of a vehicle whose engine won’t give up before the body did. They used to fret -- with whatever was available in the market in the name of MUV’s—the moment it passed the 6-digit mileage mark, the spectra of opening the engine or an engine OH would be up there in the horizon. This was something to the dislike of this segment operators. Additionally, the lack of space and comfort offered by the crop of the day—figurative meaning. Then came Toyota Qualis which build the base and to build upon it, Toyota followed up with Innova’s; obviously the operators lapped it up. The distance between the vehicle’s engine giving up and the body giving up was narrowed down, the icing on the cake when you hear a multiple of 6-digit mileage and yet the engine going strong, coupled with the space and comfort offered by that Japanese car maker MUV. It set a precedent which as time flew still stands and by the looks of it the day Toyota discontinued diesel Innova’s much to the acute mortification of this segment, even though the price of diesel and the norms will drive the decision, the segment owners will fall back to those memorable days when his fleet was predominantly filled with Toyota Innova’s and rue the fact that he cant find a replacement in the present day and age!

I dread the day when Toyota diesel Innova\Crysta will be discontinued, notwithstanding the fact that the rising diesel price coupled with existing norms are the driving point.

At the end of the day whether it’s a cab driven within metros or the MUV’s on the highways. The constants remain the same: The service intervals being met, the consumables available over the counter, a good fleet of drivers with a few that may not have the expertise yet but in time will learn to equal or excel the experienced ones in driving, then it all came down to that same distance between the time the engine gives up first or the body and the one that narrows it down is lapped up by the owners of such vehicles.

[anjan_c2007]

Taxis apart from being Maruticised in India lately, were also region specific in the earlier decades. Like we had tens of thousands of Ambassadors in Kolkata and many thousands in Delhi, we also had Premier Padminis (earlier Fiat 1100/D's) dominating in Mumbai. Ambassadors were too common all over India and preferred to Premiers or Fiats, solely for their dimensions, ground clearance and for their inbuilt DNA to face abuse. Not that Premiers couldn't face abuse, but a majority of taxi operators zeroed upon Ambassadors as taxis.

And speaking to the drivers of these old generation taxis, their fierce loyalty for the brand was unimpeachable. Like for instance in Kolkata, the taxi drivers rejoiced owning an Ambassador that could be tinkered by themselves and maybe by some roadside workshops. The bodyshell was invincible for abuse and withstood minor impacts much better. The spares didn't pinch their pockets, whereas its replacement the MS Tour requires to go to the ASC mostly. The MS Tour dominates the Kolkata taxi trade these days. And repairs for the Tour though less frequent as compared to its predecessor are costly to sometimes too costly. But the new generation of drivers in Kolkata like the MS Tour better than Ambassadors.

Likewise, it's the same for Premiers in Mumbai. When the Padmini production came to a halt by 1998-99, a taxi driver said to me that the new generation cars are costlier to get repaired. He cited the case of the Tata Indica where its taillamp assembly was around 2003-04 costing about Rs 400 or so, compared to the few tens of rupees the Padmini taillight lenses would cost. Santro, the tall boy was yet to make its entry into the taxi segment in Mumbai that it did with a bang during later years. In 2016, I sighted a rare Padmini taxi at the SantaCruz airport of the MH 02 JA series. The driver was too delighted to pose for photographs. Yes, lately they are all gone. And the last of the Ambassador taxis all over will be consigned to history in 2029. Reliable or less reliable, these two brands were very much an integral part of these two metros respectively.

Back to the topic, coming to Bangalore where aggregator based taxis operated from the then (2008) newly built Kempe Gowda airport, as a traveller I found only Renault Logans and more Logans waiting to pick up or drop the travellers. By the mid 2010's it was the Toyota Etios in a majority. The Indigos and Indicas too continued alongside in a minority, like these did earlier with the Logans. The KG airport had mostly sedans as cabs. The Etios was a favourite as it was exceedingly hassle free as drivers vouched. But both the Logan and the Etios are history now, but there are survivors though.

In Delhi airport lately, we saw a motley crowd of Indicas, Indigos including the stretched Indigos with the longer rear doors and more legroom, Versas/Eecos, rare Ambassadors and Esteems, Altos, Tours, XCents, i 20's, some i10's and so on. This motley mix of brands has taken over the taxi segment in most cities. The reliability is as each individual driver or owner perceives it.

In the North East especially in cities like Shillong, we had the Maruti 800 takeover from Ambassadors and now the Alto is taking over. Taxis are only the small hatchbacks that wriggle through the narrow and hilly gradients aiding navigation. Though for the highway sectors the MUV's and SUV's are preferred. In Gangtok I had seen Maruti Omnis as shuttle taxis and am told that the Eeco is now its worthy successor. For long distance commuting like from Siliguri or Bagdogra (airport) to Gangtok, the Sumos, Taveras , Boleros, Scorpios, Xylos and rare Innovas ( the Qualis' were never seen) dominate . Mahindra Savaris were common earlier. These also go to tourist places that are much away from Gangtok. Most of their drivers are quite satisfied with the brand's they own and keep these fit and going. In fact, I rarely found breakdowns of such taxis on the Siliguri- Gangtok or even on the Siliguri-Darjeeling- Gangtok sectors and beyond to the tourist attractions. Doing arduous jobs, the drivers earn and also spend in keeping these taxis in ship shape. I have never encountered any, in a ramshackle condition or one with worn out suspensions though the terrain is very tough.

I have discussed only the commoner's taxis here and not the premium ones as the OP has also referred to.

[danger_dude]

From where I reside currently, of the 10 taxis I see 9 of them would be Toyota Etios G_D. Almost all of them having KA or AP number plates. Of these cars I have seen a fair share of them having more than 1.5 Lac kms or more. Even though the badge of being a Toyota radiates the image of being reliable, the Etios twins were not that reliable (as per my understanding and the benchmark of being a Toyota).

Talking about the factor of reliability I have seen my cousins Ford Figo Diesel well past 3.9lac kms in the 12 years he had it. So the general maintenance and upkeepment of a vehicle really does reflect on how long you could munch miles on it.

[UD17]

Generally speaking, I would say 'Taxi test' certainly proves something about the car's reliability, maintenance cost and utility overall:

- Taxi undergo much more harsh conditions than say a personal car
- Lot of idling, long hauls, bad/dusty roads, overloading, multiple fuel outlets (across states)
- Frequent change of hands (multiple drivers)
- Some taxis are abused as driver does not own the car

I frequently talk to taxi fleet guys (mostly fleet owners) as we provide aftermarket parts to them. Some taxi in their fleet covers 10K-12K Kms in 2 months. The service interval is 2 months, tyres changed every 8 months, similar way the other parts like battery, clutch, transmission overhaul happens much earlier and multiple times in the lifecycle.

But as GTOs said, taxi owners choose their car very very carefully. Most fleet maintain them themselves (much cheaper), so they have multiple numbers of same cars in their fleet (Ertiga CNG, Innova Diesel, Dezire CNG etc.) to get access to parts/mechanic knowledge. The word of mouth is quite strong in this segment,

[Joe367]

I'm also seeing quite few Renault Tribers used as Taxi eventhough they're not the most reliable or effortless to drive. I'm guessing price and space on offer also does matter. It also offers the bonus of functional roof rail and removable third row.

[Amrit@wheels]

I am going to keep it simple, it's not a 100% foolproof test (nothing is), but it's certainly a dependable metric. There's a reason why most of the taxis in the country are some of the most reliable vehicles. My answers to your questions-
1- Is this a sensible way of assessing fuss-free and cheap ownership?"
Yes, it's a reliable metric for sure.
2 - "Have you come across any cars in the 10-40 L range"
We are not very keen on taxis but I can share a couple of experiences. One was an Ertiga and the other a Marazzo. Both were pretty happy with their vehicles. Surprisingly, the Mahindra was completely niggle-free.
3 - "Hypothetically understand why some cars in this range would be a great/ terrible taxi"
I am not an expert in this subject but I feel like the Kia Carens could be a decent Taxi. It's spacious, frugal (especially the diesel MT), and fairly reliable as well. Many terrible ones so won't go that side.
4 - " If you had an option to travel in say a petrol Thar or Fortuner as a Taxi, how much would you be willing to pay for a 30-40 Km ride?"
Sorry to deviate from the question, but I'd rather take a public bus than hire a Thar/Fortuner as a Taxi. Both are terrible vehicles in terms of comfort in the long-run. Fortuner is somewhat bearable but still good enough for long runs.

P.S. I have come across some very reliable vehicles that are usually infamous for their lack of reliability and vice-versa.

[uditanshh]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Once EV taxis become more common, then we can use them to gauge the longevity of battery and mileage on full charge after 5-6 years.

Completely agree with this. Once EV taxis become more mainstream, this 'taxi test' could provide with better long term or high usage results related to EVs. This would really help people remove any residual stigma and range anxiety still lingering around EVs.

[Balu9999]

Recently I've been to Kerala .From Kochi airport to Sabarimala, we hired a pre-paid taxi, a Brezza .It has 3,47,600 kms on ODO and in mint condition.No squeaks or rattles. I'm surprised and a little chat with the driver revealed that they look after their cars very well and serviced only at the authorised showrooms.

[V.Narayan]

Interesting thread and concept.

I actually bought a car based on the experience of a taxi fleet owner. I still use that car.

In the early 2000s I used to frequent the tri-State area of USA (NY, NJ, CT) often. My standard cab company was run by a Brazilian immigrant who had a fleet of BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus and Lincolns - maybe some others but these I recall. Often, he would come to pick me himself and drive me around those 3 States as I went about by work. In course of our conversations he often stated that the Lexus was by and far the most reliable of these luxury marques. No other brand came close. This was a time when my only exposure to the name Lexus was Harshad Mehta's (in)famous cover photo on a business magazine in 1991 posing with his Lexus just before the crash of '91 and his getting into boiling water. This stuck in my head.

A decade and a half later when I was looking for a luxury sedan I picked the Lexus. A substantial part of my decision was driven by the advice of this taxi owner in USA.



The Late Harshad Mehta posing with his unicorn Lexus LS400, with a 4000cc V-8 engine. It was then the only one in India and was imported for a then whopping Rs 35 lakhs - about Rs 3 crores today plus import duty. Given that our per capita was much much lower then this was an unheard of sum for a car.


My Bagheera, purchase inspired by a taxi fleet owners advice.

PS: I'm no fan of Harshad Mehta or his business demeanours.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Interesting thread and concept.

I actually bought a car based on the experience of a taxi fleet owner. I still use that car.
.....
The Late Harshad Mehta posing with his unicorn Lexus ....
...
My Bagheera, purchase inspired by....
...
PS: I'm no fan of Harshad Mehta or his business demeanours.

That's an important postscript note - the speed readers amongst us would have come to a totally different conclusion.