[M-Roc]

Hello All,

I never thought I would write this post within 3.5 months of buying a Skoda Slavia 1.5 DSG. I have read through numerous advice on what to expect owning a Skoda/VW cars especially with the DSG gear box.

So even before my purchase

1. I started reading though the best practices on how to handle the DSG gearbox to ensure I use it gently .
2. I was preparing myself on how to accept if there is any unexpected failure both mentally and financially.
3. I have got the extended warranty & service package very soon after purchasing the car.

FYI - I was using a Honda Jazz for 7 years and have driven about 85k kms. Through out my ownership I have never visited the service centre except for the regular service which happens every 6 months. It was a completely fuss free ownership.

Now coming to the Skoda Slavia, below are some high level details

• Purchase date : 21st September 2023
• Variant : 1.5 DSG Style
• Dealer : PPS Skoda Bangalore (Jakkur Branch).
• Kms driven : 3990 kms
• Breakdown date : 9th December 2023 (i.e., within 2.5 months)
• Issue : Oil leakage
• Time spent in service center : 21 days and still counting.

The Ordeal

On 09th Dec 2023 I went to pick my family from airport and on the way back we stopped to have some tea time. Upon starting again I noticed a warning alert popping up in the instrument cluster. I wasn't able to decode that hence within 200 m I stopped my vehicle in a service road and switched off the car and switched on again, then I was able to see a message "Please check the oil levels".

Immediately we stepped out of the car and I had a look under the bonnet I was able to see some oil on the ground. I checked the oil levels and could notice it to be very very low.

This is when confusion, anxiety and all panic attacks started kicking in. Immediately I called the sales help desk at PPS Skoda I was given an advice to contact the RSA number. At least I would have called them 5 times back to back and no one attended it and there was an automated voice to provide the details over Whatsapp for speedy service. So I did that and got a message stating someone would reach out to me shortly.

So I booked a cab and sent my family home which would be around 15 kms from the breakdown spot. Called one of my friends who rushed to the spot to accompany me and it took around 1 hour but I didn't hear back anything from Skoda.

I started calling RSA again and after an unsuccessful attempt of around 7 to 8 times some one picked the call and got the tracking/complaint ID I got from Whatsapp registration. Again they started asking all the details and asked me to send my location details which I shared already through the Whatsapp process.

They told me it would take at least 3 to 4 hours for the towing service to arrive and asked me if I can handover the vehicle to an Skoda appointed person prior to that. I agreed to it and after a wait for around 1.5 to 2 hours a gentleman came and calmed me and he took over the vehicle after getting few signatures.

My friend went under the bonnet and checked if there is any scratch under the bonnet and confirmed that no scratch or any sort of physical damage was there. ( I was very confident because only I have driven the car till date and I didn't encounter any such situation of under body contact with the road).

Then we went back home and I got a message form Skoda appointed person around 11:30 pm that he sent the vehicle to the nearest Skoda service centre which is PPS Skoda through a towing vehicle and he shared some pics of the same.

The next morning I went to PPS Skoda service centre just to check the condition of my car. Though it was a holiday I was seeing few people working around, immediately I met a service advisor and he told me they would only check the vehicle on next day and promised me he would give me a call to explain after initial analysis.

At the service center

• On Day 1 after the initial inspection I was informed that there was no external damage to the underbody hence the issue is internal.
  
• This is the first instance of the oil leakage problem in the entire Skoda Slavia lineup that was sold in India since its introduction. Hence there is no pre determined procedure to resolve the issue.
  
• All they will do is to reach out to Skoda and would get a flying doctor to visit and based on his recommendation they will proceed with the fix.

I was continuously following up with the service advisor and he intimated that the flying doctor had suggested to replace the oil seal and the car would be ready on 19th Dec 2023.

But on 19th I was informed that after replacing the oil seal the leakage has been stopped but there is a very minor seepage. Hence they are going to investigate it further to ensure this doesn't come up again.

Again the same routine needs to be followed (i.e., flying doctors visit, his recommendation followed by the fix). This time I met the service manager and expressed by dissatisfaction as all these thing are happening in a brand new vehicle. He promised me he would get the car fixed and delivered it by 23rd December 2023.

On 23rd December I was informed that the flying doctor advised to replace the inner seal and the part is not available immediately hence they have ordered the same. I lost patience as I had plans to travel back to my home town on 25th December. When I requested for a loaner vehicle the service manager told they can arrange only for usage within city limits.

I got frustrated and asked them to give me a correct timeline by when everything would be fixed to which he promised that on 30th December I can take the vehicle back. On 30th December the same story repeats as they have just received the part and their team is working on priority.

To summarise three times in a row the promised handover date is missed by PPS Skoda and also they have denied a loaner vehicle to me.

This entire episode has caused lot of mental trauma.

Now the below listed questions are popping up

1. Will I get this issue in future ? ( Can't really think through the stressed environment I would need to go through)
2. Repeatedly I was informed that this is a first occurrence hence the dealership level technicians can't do anything on their own and they would always need to seek advise from Skoda's flying doctor to fix anything. --> This raises a question would there be any hidden manufacturing issue that would pop up at a later stage?

• Overall I am not satisfied with the level of service offered especially after having a fuss free ownership with Honda.
• Its a mental trauma when I have to be stranded on the road with Family.
• Even inside the city limits the RSA were not able to help immediately and have to wait for around 4 to 6 hours to get some assistance.

I wrote a detailed email to the service manager explaining all the issues I'm facing. He just told me that he has forwarded that to his higher authorities but hasn't included me in the email chain.

To summarise I completely lost trust and unhappy with the decision of buying a Skoda Slavia, though it would be a financial loss I'm seriously considering to sell the vehicle once it is ready.

Thanks.

[Nithesh_M]

I've always wanted to know why one would go from experiencing Japanese reliability to German reliability experience. Unless say you're going from a Honda City performance level to a BMW 3 series performance class I would never want to experience the horror without such a big performance advantage.

No amount of advanced mental preparedness can help one cope through a Skoda service headache. This forum is proof enough for it. Its a mystery how and why even during the end of this internal combustion engine cycle, the "German engineering supremacy" brands still cannot match Japanese reliability. One has to wonder if these brands intentionally build a car to be relatively fuss free within warranty period and once beyond say 5 years, everything falls apart so the service center can keep making money for them.

As for your questions on whether the issue will happen again after repairs, my counter question is would you be willing to go through this ordeal again when the ASC is incompetent to diagnose and rectify an oil leak for more than 2 weeks?
And my other question is what do they mean by this being a first occurence for the Slavia? Has their other products not recieved a similar failure in the past?
Why are they acting like this car has futuristic hybrid or EV technology? How hard is it to go through a service manual and figure out what part is faulty? Does Skoda not train their mechanics or do they not supply the ASCs the right kind of service manuals for their products?

[M-Roc]

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

I've always wanted to know why one would go from experiencing Japanese reliability to German reliability experience. Unless say you're going from a Honda City performance level to a BMW 3 series performance class I would never want to experience the horror without such a big performance advantage.

Good question, please see my response below

1. BMW is out of reach at-least for the next 5 to 7 years due to other commitments.
2. Though I didn't have any niggles, off late when I got a chance to drive more powerful vehicle and that acted as a catalyst to get a powerful car that can satisfy me.
3. It was a heart vs mind battle. This time I went with the heart and unfortunately I was hit by the unexpected events and practical difficulties. Finally I am in the receiving end. (FYI - I had a similar heart vs mind dilemma when I purchased my Bike and that time I went with mind and happy with it after 1.5years , relevant thread - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...nd-battle.html (Royal Enfield Hunter 350 vs TVS Ronin - Yet another heart vs mind battle))

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

As for your questions on whether the issue will happen again after repairs, my counter question is would you be willing to go through this ordeal again when the ASC is incompetent to diagnose and rectify an oil leak for more than 2 weeks?

Definitely not, thats why I am considering to sell the car (though I would need to go through a financial loss)

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

And my other question is what do they mean by this being a first occurence for the Slavia? Has their other products not recieved a similar failure in the past?

As per the service manager they haven't encountered a similar oil leakage problem in any of the Slavia that has been sold in India.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

I've always wanted to know why one would go from experiencing Japanese reliability to German reliability experience. Unless say you're going from a Honda City performance level to a BMW 3 series performance class I would never want to experience the horror without such a big performance advantage.

No amount of advanced mental preparedness can help one cope through a Skoda service headache. This forum is proof enough for it. Its a mystery how and why even during the end of this internal combustion engine cycle, the "German engineering supremacy" brands still cannot match Japanese reliability. One has to wonder if these brands intentionally build a car to be relatively fuss free within warranty period and once beyond say 5 years, everything falls apart so the service center can keep making money for them.

As for your questions on whether the issue will happen again after repairs, my counter question is would you be willing to go through this ordeal again when the ASC is incompetent to diagnose and rectify an oil leak for more than 2 weeks?
And my other question is what do they mean by this being a first occurence for the Slavia? Has their other products not recieved a similar failure in the past?
Why are they acting like this car has futuristic hybrid or EV technology? How hard is it to go through a service manual and figure out what part is faulty? Does Skoda not train their mechanics or do they not supply the ASCs the right kind of service manuals for their products?

The intent of this thread is to try and come up with possible suggestions for the OP after gauging the severity of the issue. I don't understand what is the point of ranting about German and Japanese reliability here. There are other threads to do the same. We are in 2023. I am sure the OP did due research before buying a Slavia (he has already stated it in the post above). Yes, I will agree this oil leak is something he might not have taken into account, but I genuinely don't find the need to ask such questions in a technically inclined thread like this.

To the OP, please ask the ASC to specify the 'exact' oil seal that is the culprit. There are several oil seals in an engine. There's the crankshaft oil seal on the timing side, the main seal on the gearbox side, the camshaft oil seal. Then there's numerous gaskets such as the tappet cover gasket and the timing cover (in case of a chain driven engine) where oil leaks can spring up too. Exactly which one of these is leaking? Images would also help.

Based on this, one can decide how severe the issue is. If it's a tappet cover leak, I would frankly get it fixed and forget about it unless the car has other issues that can allow one to call it a lemon. This can also be done at the dealer level. If it's a crankshaft oil leak on the timing side or worse the gearbox side, yes, I would worry a little. Service centres might not have handled such a leak before on the 1.5 TSI and hence there might be a need for the flying doctor to come and diagnose the issue. Based on which seal has leaked, one can ascertain how difficult it is to replace and what are the chances of recurrence for the same.

Look at the problem in an objective manner. Selling the car off or not is a decision to be taken 'after' the car is fixed. Any such thoughts will only cloud your vision and add to the frustration you are already facing.

[M-Roc]

Originally Posted by vishy76

To the OP, please ask the ASC to specify the 'exact' oil seal that is the culprit. There are several oil seals in an engine. There's the crankshaft oil seal on the timing side, the main seal on the gearbox side, the camshaft oil seal. Then there's numerous gaskets such as the tappet cover gasket and the timing cover (in case of a chain driven engine) where oil leaks can spring up too. Exactly which one of these is leaking? Images would also help.

Based on this, one can decide how severe the issue is. If it's a tappet cover leak, I would frankly get it fixed and forget about it unless the car has other issues that can allow one to call it a lemon. This can also be done at the dealer level. If it's a crankshaft oil leak on the timing side or worse the gearbox side, yes, I would worry a little. Service centres might not have handled such a leak before on the 1.5 TSI and hence there might be a need for the flying doctor to come and diagnose the issue. Based on which seal has leaked, one can ascertain how difficult it is to replace and what are the chances of recurrence for the same.

Look at the problem in an objective manner. Selling the car off or not is a decision to be taken 'after' the car is fixed. Any such thoughts will only cloud your vision and add to the frustration you are already facing.

Thank you for your inputs.

Per my discussion with the service advisor oil leak is at the crankshaft attaching some pics for your reference.

Can you please provide your thoughts if this is something to worry about? As I am not technically sound I couldn't gauge the severity of this issue.











Thanks

[Jeroen]

Those images are not of the crankshaft, but are of the drive train for the cam shafts.
The arm/finger is pointing to the cover case for the distribution belts.

Your crankshaft seal would be nearer to the bottom of the engine, between the pulley and the front of the engine on the protruding end of the crankshaft.

There is an aft crankshaft seal too. Not sure how that works on a DSG variant though. Usually, in case of leaks you might notice, but you might not be able to see it or get at it, without have to remove the Dsg box.

So where is the leak?

Jeroen

[M-Roc]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Those images are not of the crankshaft, but are of the drive train for the cam shafts.
The arm/finger is pointing to the cover case for the distribution belts.

Your crankshaft deal would be nearer to the bottom of the engine, between the pulley and the front of the engine on the protruding end of the crankshaft.

There is an aft crankshaft seal too. Not sure how that works on a DSG variant though. Usually, in case of leaks you might notice, but you might not be able to see it or get at it, without have to remove the Dsg box.

So where is the leak?

Jeroen

I received a call from the service manager stating that the issue has been fixed and the car is ready. I requested them to share the repair order details, to which they told they would be able to share it on Tuesday 2nd Jan as it is a holiday now.

But verbally he told that oil seal and pulley is what they have changed.

I will share the details once I have them.

Thanks

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by M-Roc

But verbally he told that oil seal and pulley is what they have changed.

I will share the details once I have them.

Great, thanks.

Do ask them why they changed the pulley. You will have to remove the pulley in order to change out the seal. But normally you would put the pulley back on again. It is not a part that is damaged easily, although depending on the design/construction it might have played a role in your seal being damaged.

I replaced the front crankshaft seal not too long ago on my Jeep. The Jeep front pulley is also a harmonic balancer, so I changed it out because after 320K kilometers I figured it would not hurt to install a new one.

Have a look here, you can also clearly see the crankshaft seal:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-d...ml#post5345956 (My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One)

But often the inside of the pulley pushes the crankshaft seal in place, so maybe something was damaged or they felt it was safer to replace it as well.

Getting the pulley off is a real PITA on most cars, not sure about yours. But usually, it means you need to remove a lot of stuff before you have proper access to it. As it usually involves some kind of puller tool to get it off, you need quite a bit of room.

On the upside, it is just a crankshaft seal. Should not happen, but better now when it will be replaced at no cost under warrant than later. And the crankshaft seal has nothing to do with the DSG!!

Jeroen

[corvus corax]

Per my discussion with the service advisor oil leak is at the crankshaft attaching some pics for your reference.

Who took the pictures? The SA or you?

If it is the SA then he is either an incompetent one who can not tell the difference between crankshaft and camshafts or you are being taken for a ride.

I strongly recommend you to get someone technically inclined and visit the workshop ASAP as I strongly suspect something fishy is going on behind the curtains.

[The Rationalist]

I have had engine head damage in my first car, repaired it drove for another 5 years and sold because of the need for a safer automatic car. If the problem is fixed, I don't understand the need for selling the car. I have used Japanese and American cars (over 22 years), to be honest there isn't anything so great about the reliability. It depends on your luck. I was stranded 2 times in my driving life, both times it was a Japanese car! I'm someone who buys cars that tug my heart not the head. Don't fret too much, enjoy the car.

If we start to replace things for the slightest of issues, in life we would have to have at least half a dozen partners in life! Don't we all accomodate our partner's issues and vice versa, it's extremely rare that you find the perfect partner especially in an arranged set-up like ours. I think the selling decision is a momentary one due to the frustration with the delay in repair. My car had a water ingress due to bent AC drain pipe and even when I gave them the heads-up they took 15 days to repair it! Maybe you are very young, so your impatience is accepted. Hope you make a wise decision.

[Turbohead]

I can absolutely understand the frustration OP is going through right now but to be fair, this is a very rare failure these days.

Usually for OEM parts, a quality check is done once randomly for every 100 parts produced. So these are manufacturing defects that pass through. They don't check every single piece.

It's upto the OP to decide whether the vehicle should be disposed but if I were you, I'd keep it for 2 more years and take a call.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

Usually for OEM parts, a quality check is done once randomly for every 100 parts produced.

How quality checks are performed and how often depends totally on the type of part how it is manufactured and how it is used in the final assembly. It is not just about the quality of an individual part. It is very much about the quality of the overall manufacturing process.

So each component (parts if you like), how that is manufactured, how it is transported to the factory, how it is installed in a (sub) assembly, what the quality of the sub-assembly is and so on.

let's take this camshaft seal for instance. The seal itself consists usually of 2 or 3 individual parts already. The (rubber-like) seal itself and spring.

It can fail because of:

A defect in a material proposition.
A defect in how it was produced.
It could be damaged during storage/transportation
It could be damaged due to an incorrect insertion procedure.
It could be damaged due to incorrect torquing
It could be damaged due to contamination in any of the previous steps
It could be damaged to incorrect mounting surface dimensions on the pulley
It could be damaged due to incorrect mounting dimensions of the engine case
And on and on and on.

Jeroen

[greyhound82]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

Usually for OEM parts, a quality check is done once randomly for every 100 parts produced. So these are manufacturing defects that pass through. They don't check every single piece.

O-rings/ Oilseals, gaskets etc undergo 100 percent visual inspection for flashes, cut marks, surface defects etc. There are machines that can inspect 800 parts per minute ( 5mm outer dia ). Mostly these inspections are carried out by O-ring suppliers at the insistence of automobile manufacturers and they directly will access the reports generated by the machines.

[Deep Blue]

I have a Skoda Octavia 2 TDI which had an oil leak in the gearbox in my second year of ownership which is detailed here

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ml#post4962470 (Review: Skoda Octavia (3rd-gen))

Now the car is 4 1/2 years and 61k run. I have not had any problems since then.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by M-Roc

Thank you for your inputs.

Per my discussion with the service advisor oil leak is at the crankshaft attaching some pics for your reference.

Can you please provide your thoughts if this is something to worry about? As I am not technically sound I couldn't gauge the severity of this issue.

Thanks

This is an issue with the camshaft firstly. It seems to be an issue with the camshaft on the intake side. The intake cam has a VVT mechanism.

It seems the ASC first tried to replace the VVT solenoid seals (which they refer to as the outer seals). However, the leak resurfaced, meaning it's from the main intake cam seal which sits between the camshaft and the engine head. This does need some work to get to. The timing belt needs to come off, the VVT solenoid assy, the intake cam sprocket also needs to come off.

They might have found abrasion on the sprocket surface itself where it mates with the se which might have caused the leak in the first place, or it might be standard procedure to replace it when doing the seal. Either ways, it's an advantage to you.

Keep monitoring the same area for leaks now. If done properly, especially with replacement of the entire sproket with the seal, I don't see a reason why this should occur again.