[powertrain]

Let's address the elephant in the room:-

Thar NCAP rating(India) - 4 Stars
Jimny NCAP rating (India) - Untested

The fact that Suzuki hasn't published the Jimny crash test results itself raises a lot of questions.
This could have been an ideal product for Suzuki to show Indians how serious they are about Indian lives.

But no, Suzuki is Alice in wonderland

Why would any informed customer who wants a primary car, choose the Jimny over the Thar?! I personally know 3-4 nuclear families (Kids aged 1-5 years) go for Thar than the Jimny!

Nope, you're not getting my business.

Regards,
Powertrain

[RijuC]

Meanwhile, I drove my Jimny 884 km in one day, one way. My wife was the co-passenger. I have already posted this return leg trip report, and that post (through news section) appeared on Google and now it is a discussion matter in close circle of friends and family.

Deep discount of 2-2.5 lakhs now, it feels bad.
Once I am on steering of my Jimny, it brings ear to ear grin. The chapter of endless and directionless debate is a closed chapter for me!

[ArvindMaveric]

Absolutely brilliant comparison. Kudos! The marketer in me loved it to bits.

The fact is that the new-gen Thar is mostly bought for its butch, masculine looks than for its off-roading chops. It's more for the ego and "I'm driving a large vehicle and all of you are beneath me" feels. The Jimny doesn't have that going for it to climb up the sales figures. The Jimny is a highly niche vehicle that cosies up with enthusiasts alone. So expecting a 5k/month sales figure is absurd.

[Somil07]

Originally Posted by GTO

They screw up good cars in marketing & positioning, then blame the market.

Couldn't agree more! In a market where 4WD/AWD are so rare, Maruti does come out with a product but Alas! everything other than offroad capability is screwed up. The main problem is it neither has the pulling power nor is fuel efficient, basically missing a diesel engine... period!

[vellatechie]

Jimny was bound to fail because MS wanted priced Jimny at 90% of Thar for a car that's essentially 70% Thar (on all the parameters that customers cared - size, engine, gearbox, oomph).

Add the fact that their launch TVC just failed to connect due to their poor brand positioning and storyline made it worse. Just look at these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcpRSIV57yg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7xUygh6Buo

Maruti Suzuki should understand that even though the customers of Thar and Jimny belong to the same demographic, their psychographic needs and behaviour are different.

This is what MS needs to do to succeed:
Instead of positioning it against Thar, MS should position it as a complete vehicle that you can take anywhere - narrow streets, open highways, mountains, beaches, anywhere. And TVC should reflect this.

Leverage stories from the Indian Army. Indian Army ordered 2000 more gypsys in 2019! Instead of stories of Jimny from South Africa and Spain, that no one cares about in India, share stories from India with Gypsy. People haven't heard of Jimny much in India, but everyone knows or has experienced Gypsy.

Add a panoramic sunroof. Majority of us who have experienced Gypsy, have done it with open roof. Thar with its fiber top cannot have this feature. This will be major differentiating factor.

Instead of aiming for 15-20L bracket, aim for 10-16L bracket. Make the price cut permanent and consistent across their range. They should accept their mistake, and compensate the early adopters with an extended warranty or additional free service.

[anjan_c2007]

For the #1 carmaker flops should be hard to digest. They have though had many flops, but for such a high profile launch and the marketing hype created and simulated, its a bitter pill for MSIL to swallow. We are just unable to keep track of the multiple threads and posts here on teambhp on the Jimny since more than a decade, as many enthusiast friends here were e-e-eagerly awaiting a worthy successor for the Gypsy.

With the odd pricing and their market research and marketing strategy failing, its better for MSIL to concentrate on its A and B segments plus a MPV or two. Other segments appear to be alien to them.

Lastly to summarise, blame the Thar. "Thar is the Jimny killer".

[nanoguy]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Basically I don’t think the larger majority of our countrymen are able to appreciate what this vehicle can do and what it is meant for. And it will simply not fit into their purchase criteria. For their own overall happiness, it is better that these said countrymen stick with Hyundai Exter and Kia Sonet and Maruti Brezza and the like, rather than the little Jimny.

The same Jimny was being touted as a vehicle which will democratize offroading in India. So if a large majority are not able to appreciate the vehicle, then Maruti read the market wrong. Moreover, if it wasn't for the large majority, this thread might not have been so hot.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by nanoguy

The same Jimny was being touted as a vehicle which will democratize offroading in India. So if a large majority are not able to appreciate the vehicle, then Maruti read the market wrong. Moreover, if it wasn't for the large majority, this thread might not have been so hot.

Democratization of off roading and outdoorsy stuff I guess can only happen when the target segment is able to appreciate and receive and adopt. Someone said that we aren’t by nature as outdoorsy as perhaps other nations may be.
(It is also true that we may have been the only nation in the world where Chauffeur Driven Maruti 800’s were in operation in the 1980’s, 1990’s and 2000’s.)

[Ksingh544]

Thank you for putting together this analysis.
i think some of the key factors that you have also mentioned are as follows -

- No diesel variant. I recently looked at the break up and over 70% of Thars sold are the diesel engines.
- I think the marketing and delayed launch has led to fatigue in the indian customers. we have been waiting for years, listening to rumors of a Jimny being launched for the Indian market. A tipping point comes after which even if its a good product, the customer has already moved on. Think of all the great LG phones launched but the customer didnt care as the Iphone would be available every October like clock work.
- Mahindra even with its long waiting periods managed to fill this gap and gave the customers all options and variants. hence today you have uncle, auntys, teenagers, punjabi music videos all driving Thars. Ease of use + Ease of purchase
- The Jimny isnt a vehicle for everyone, comparing it to a Brezza, Creta, Seltos etc doesnt make sense. its not competing in that segment. Hence i dont see this is as debacle. The Indian market is very niche for vehicles like the Jimny, Thar, and Gurkha ( i have owned both the Thar CRDE and prevous Trax Judo).
- You correctly pointed out when you develop a vehicle for a market instead of adapting an existing one, the former will always win. Full kudos to Mahindra for making the new all new Thar for the Indian market first, with amazing engines. While the entire market is moving towards hybrid, EV or small efficient engines to enhance their mileage. Mahindra went against the grain and said - " here you go, a 200 BHP petrol engine, go have fun ". I respect this so much

I visited the gurgaon Nexa showroom today to enquire about the Jimny after this new December discount scheme. The Zeta Manual base model is working out to Rs 12,80,000 on road. As an enthusiast who loves his jeeps, this is a sweet sweet pricing. In comparison to this the Petrol Thar Manual HT is Rs 17,60,000 on road Gurgaon.
I see proper value in the Jimny now, which wasnt there in the previous pricing.
If anything i applaud Maruti for seeing their mistake and course correcting in time. We know so many Auto brands in India who have refused to see their mistakes and just powered on and in the end had to shut shop.

Cheers.
K.

[sridhar-v]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I came close to considering Jimny until the complete lack of highway credentials turned me off. My usage is 80% highway, and 4speed AT with weak engine wouldn't just cut it.

I am in the same position. As a young 66 year old I still harbour aspirations of many more long road trips and the puny engine will just not do for relaxed driving( we usually are a gang of 4 with a fair amount of luggage). So I am going to cling on to my old 2007 Grand Vitara till as long as I can.

[NiInJa]

The Jimny is a good car, its just that it cannot be the first car or a primary car for most people. Not sure who is Maruti targeting. They should reduce the price and yet not expect sales to increase by a large number.

In my opinion, I think a lot is being talked about the engine being K15B instead of K15C. That would still not make any difference, what the car needs is more power, if a Honda 1.5L NA can give ~120 bhp, not sure why Suzuki's K15B gives only 104 bhp of power.

5 speed Automatic transmission should have been offered since the beginning. Now you have the Brezza with 5 Speed automatic for the same ballpark figures, and then the Jimny 4 speed automatic. Why would someone get the Jimny then?

If they really want the Jimny to sell, I think they should compete it against the Bolero (not Neo, the older version). Sell the most bare-bones at a mouth-watering price tag at their normal showrooms instead of Nexa outlets, let people upgrade the music system, wheels, headlights etc. with official accessories.

[Zanskar]

Interesting study and analysis. At the end of the day it does not really matter as long as the car is robust and niggle free. We've had some great cars which the normal janta has missed out on, remember Subaru Forester in the guise of Chevy. Some of the iconic car makers like Ford and Chevrolet have closed up shop not because they made bad cars.
I feel we are going the American way as far as choice of car purchase goes. Big, burly and intimidating stance SUV's are in and small cute cars are looked down upon.

I bough the S-cross in 2017 and had niggle free experience until 2023 when I sold it and bought the Jimny. It had sorted suspension, superb ride quality and decent performance. Sold it at a good price too.

Apart from the pricing Jimny has been a joy so far. It's more than fast enough for the city and feels even better off the road. I've met some amazing fellow Jimny owners and it feels like meeting a fellow biker.
In a nutshell I have the pleasure of owning two of the failed products from MS and I'm not complaining as long as I get similar experience as I had with the S-cross.

I don't care if its a sales dud, in fact if MS discontinues it soon it will achieve cult status just like the earlier Grand Vitara and Kizashi.

[Freespirit27]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

It is also true that we may have been the only nation in the world where Chauffeur Driven Maruti 800’s were in operation in the 1980’s, 1990’s and 2000’s.

That brought a smile! I know of quite a few who even now have chauffered WagonR's!
Indians buy cars with more features for bragging rights.
My guess 80% of SUVs on the road don't see any offroading instead, are bought for commanding seating position, high ground clearance for speed bumps, pot holes and water wading during monsoons, apart from bragging rights.
Offroading was never a popular hobby - for the rich and yuppy it's a weekend plan. For rest who drive the older CL series, Boleros it's daily driving. In between you have the hardcore offroading fraternity. So yes, Jimny if it was providing alternative to Thar, it should have undercut on price.
Seeing the comparison it isn't surprising why the Brezza is a better alternative to Jimny in the city!

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

If that was the case the equally comfortable and slow Ghurkha with road presence to challenge a medium sized army tank would have sold in significant numbers.

Its a good thing BD Sir was around, he built a Jeep around a CRDe engine and the rest is history.

The Gurkha would have been a challenger to the Thar. Unfortunately Force spent more effort in making it a capable offroader. An excellent interior quality and refinement would have made it a good competitor.

Thanks for bringing up the first generation Thar. If you look at the numbers posted in this very thread they were very low and going down. It's the second generation Thar that really gave the boost. Again RWD gave a further impetus.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Democratization of off roading and outdoorsy stuff I guess can only happen when the target segment is able to appreciate and receive and adopt. Someone said that we aren’t by nature as outdoorsy as perhaps other nations may be.
(It is also true that we may have been the only nation in the world where Chauffeur Driven Maruti 800’s were in operation in the 1980’s, 1990’s and 2000’s.)

There is a reason why Suzuki never considered launching the Jimny in India for so long. Suzuki knew that Jimny was never a mass Market Car. It has a very stable, loyal and learned audience world wide that knows what vehicles like Jimny do and uses it accordingly. Hence the steady sales worldwide for every generation. This audience exists in India as well but is a very small family today. It is only on insistence of Suzuki India team that the vehicle was launched in India with some modifications from international Jimny. It is the job of India team now to justify the results.

In my personal opinion, having driven the last three Jimny generations quite a lot in Japan, such vehicles would never work in India as even our outdoor excursions are mostly family based or couple based where in we try to have as much creature comforts as possible. The typical Jimny clientele world wide is a lone wolf or a solo rider who doesn't give a damn about looks or ego and performance is all that matters. It is Four wheel response to a Dirt bike!! It is just the way things are. The Jimny would probably find it's home at Raid de Himalaya or such rallies even in its stock form. Now imagine doing that with families.

Jimny was never a volume driver. Suzuki hardly made 7000-8000 copies per month to sell world wide including Japan, Australia and Europe. So, to expect 5000 units sales in India alone is not ok.